Higher mileage during Lap dances

justlooking · May 5, 2003

I hope this doesn't come out too convoluted, but let's try.

The problem here is a sort of triple inversion.

In the first place, "gentlemen's clubs" advertise themselves with all sorts of suggestive shit about what goes on in them. To be sure, though, most people take that as bullshit sales puffery.

But then at least some people discover that that it isn't really bullshit. Some "gentlemen's clubs" (and it's more than a few) are like the club you left, where a lot of really significant stuff happens on premises. Probably more clubs are like the one I think you work at now, where some stuff happens on premises and a lot of stuff happens off premises. Leaving yourself out of it, what percentage of strippers at your club would you say have NEVER had sex with a customer outside the club (whether it's for cash or not almost doesn't make a difference)? (I was gonna say that if it's a percentage in more than single digits I don't think you're being candid -- but then I remembered that strippers all lie to each other about this subject. So maybe this is a case where guys like slinkybender and me actually know more than you do about what goes on in clubs like yours.)

The point I'm trying to make is that when you talk about a "gentlemen's club" like yours, I don't know it as a place where sex isn't available. To the contrary, I know it to be a place where sex is available. Maybe I'm not the average guy who wanders into your club, but am I so unique that the effect of people like me on your work situation is negligible? I doubt it.

justlooking · May 5, 2003

And this is especially so because, as slinkybender points out, the guys who spend more tend to be the guys who spend more time in strip clubs who tend to be the guys who know more about what's really going on.

I think you can make a decent living off the guys who sort of wander in cluelessly and are satisfied with nothing more than table dances. (At least, it'll only be decent if you don't ruthlessly play them the way your nemesis does.) But, as you said, you won't develop a lot of regulars that way and you won't make a great living.

There's nothing wrong with making a good living instead of a great living.

But remember, this whole discussion was started, many many threads ago when you first arrived here, when you asked us why you weren't a top earner.

Slinky Bender · May 5, 2003

I've reread them both over a couple of times, and I keep thinking that everything in Danielle's last post exactly proves everything in my ost preceding it... but specifically:

WTF?

uh, huh.

So which one is it? I'm confused.

But it's pretty clear that they aren't in category 1. If any guy ever asks you for your number or extras or whatever, BY DEFINITION they never were category 1 guys to begin with, and you were wrong when you assumed that they were. So we get back to the point which is that you aren't in fact amking that money off of category 1 guys, you're making it off of category 2 and 3 guys, because you incorrectly decied that they were category 1 guys.

And from where I sit, it looks like you are using your "perception" (which seems to be a little "convenient') that the universe of category 1 guys is much, much bigger than it actually is, as a crutch to enable you to take their money, but still feel good about yourself.

I new a drug dealer once who thought of himself as very moral, and didn't see anything wrong in what he was doing, since he only sold drugs for recreational purposes and would never sell anything to "an addict". Of course, he never thought any of his customers were addicts, including the guys who were buying several grams a day, and would call him with "emergency" orders, etc. He just needed them not to be addicts, because he wanted to think he was doing the right thing. It didn't, however, change what those customers actually were.

Sinful7 · May 5, 2003

7 Just Looking

These quote is the best thing since slice bread, like the magic
key that opened multiple doors.

Men in the Sex Entertainment Establishments
-Novices tend to be just fascinated with the enivornment,
at least 20 women walking around half naked with the music
beat hypnotizing them, would make anyone horomones race.
They're caught up in the scene, sucess rate of a catch very
rare, they are just learning how to fish in the pond of senuality.

-Regulars tend to know the system and how it works, there
luck is the draw of the card. Regulars usely pull the girl that they
put the most time and money into. Regulars have about a 30%
chance of success rate with there prey

-Pros: Been fishing for years understand the job better than
the girls most of the time, they are mental predators, and I
bet there knowledge of the establishment gives them 50%
success rate with less time and money than the regulars

Women who Cash IN at the end of the Night
-Strippers make the least money because they do the least,
and promise the most. They act like they are interested play
with the idea until cliental sees through the bullshit and moves
on. I have danced in many states and the strippers that make
the most money work in the stripclubs with a high male
turnover. The more people frequent the more money the
girls make ( A stripper making over a thousand dollars a
night on a regular basis not doing any x-tra RARE- if someone
knows of a place like this let me know) In Westchester there
is a spot on Tuesdays Funk Flex DJ there and girls clean up,
thousand plus because they have the name to pull in the
guys and the girls hold the rep. for the establishment.
-Sex Entertainters are the new wave of money for the girls
lets tippie toe on the line and cause a release on average
a thousand dollars a shift, more and more of these places
are popping up so in a couple of years the money will drop
like in the stripclub, but as for now it the hotspot, and strip
club are being used for I eyecandy over a cold beer
***But not too many novices know about these spots, unless
you are in the loop
-Esorts are the Queens they openly sell there sexual service
under there own rules and regulations, even if you work for
an Escort Service. The work is always in demand they are getting around 400 a trick most man cum in 10 minutes.( Unless you
work in Las Vegas and you can turn a trick for a thousand a
pop) an easy guranteed $1000 day at leisure.

Who is Holding $$$$$$$

It can be any of the three, it depends who is the smartest with
regenerating your money in other projects. Just saving money
might get you a house or a nice safety cushion, but the average
career of a Sexual Entertainer is ten years, an average mortage
payment is thirty years. A no-income mortage down payment
yout looking to put 50k on a house and you still have to maintain
it. I tried the getting a house in NY but instead of it working for
me I would be working for it. So instead I have a house in
Missouri with 3 arcers and my taxes are 300 dollars a year.
30K in cash paid in full and I own it, now I have assets. Just
picked up undeveloped land in South Carolina. It like playing
monoply you go around the board a couple of times than start
buying property than you put houses on it. With the money I
had left over I put it into this computer world. I have every
piece of equipment one needs for the computer, both system
apple and windows, and laptop. I learned how to live in
my means of my income and I have other business on the side
I run. Lets just put it like I don't order checks from the bank just
deposit slip books. Never put all your eggs in one basket and
you will always eat.

**The strong rules the weak, the wise rules the strong....
Wisdom is the key to wealth, wisdom comes from knowledge
of your enivornment and if you plant seeds in the right soil
you will eat off the friut of the land.

justlooking · May 5, 2003

Re: 7 Just Looking

I take back everything I said in that other thread. How could anyone say your posts are promotional?

[SFSF]

justlooking · May 5, 2003

I realized over lunch that the point I was trying to make in my two longish posts above was so convoluted that I lost the thread of it in those posts.

What I meant to be saying was:

A stripper like Danielle can't rely on the way her club is presented to the world at large as a defense against anyone's expectations as to what's available inside.

If you looked at the advertising for any of those clubs, you'd think there might be some pretty exciting shit going on in them. Certainly, the advertising never suggests that as little goes on as Danielle says is the norm. (And, moreover, from the advertising, you can't tell Danielle's current club apart from the "gentlemen's club" she bailed from because extras were too much of a norm apart from, say, the Carousel Club.)

So it isn't the advertising that tells anyone that no extras are available in the club. If anything, the advertising suggests the opposite.

Instead, what I think Danielle means she relies on is what "everybody knows" is really available in "gentlemen's clubs." She's assuming "everybody knows" that it's all just a tease (including the ads).

And that's where we get into a problem. Because on the one hand a lot of guys probably do know all about the official rules and all, and so "know" that nothing much is going on in those clubs. (Just like a lot of guys "know" that the first club Danielle worked at is a rip-off joint where they charge a lot of money but where no mileage whatsoever is permitted.) But on the other hand a lot of other guys -- and they tend to be the more experienced ones who are the more regular customers and bigger spenders -- "know" something completely different.

So there's the problem: both Danielle on the one side and slinkybender and I on the other are arguing based on our perception of what strip club customers "really" know. And while I have a feeling Danielle might be leaving out a lot of stuff that might support her view of this (because guys that just come in once in a while for a few laps and some chat aren't that interesting to talk about), I have to agree with slinkybender that what she's posted so far tends to support our view.

justlooking · May 5, 2003

I'd like to mildly dissent from that.

Leaving Danielle herself out of this, it's possible the guy is a Category 1 who's been misled by one particular stripper's attentiveness etc. into believing there's a chance for some sort of outside relationship to develop.

I believe that type of guy must pose the hardest problem for a stripper such as Danielle describes herself as. Because if your schtick is to present yourself as a "nice" "normal" girl, that's EXACTLY what these poor pathetic guys are most susceptible to and what'll most mislead them, even if the stripper doesn't intend it. The question then becomes at what point she's "obligated" to cut a guy like that off (I think even Danielle agrees by this point that it's wrong for a stripper to actively seek out business like that). But that really was a large part of the "Phone Number" thread, and needn't be rehashed.

justlooking · May 5, 2003

Re: 7 Just Looking

7, please don't think I'm going after you, but I have to tell you that you don't know as much yet about the nuts-and-bolts aspects of full-service prostitution as you do about Strippers and Sexual Entertainers.

(E.g., most full-service prostitutes make much less than $400 a trick, and only the worst rip-offs cut off a session after the guy comes once -- reputable full-service prostitutes schedule by the hour. If you think they can "easily" make a "guaranteed" $1000 a day -- much less "at leisure" -- you're going to be very disappointed if you ever decide to go that route.)

(Rereading the foregoing, the language sounds harsh. Please believe me, 7, I don't mean it that way.)

justlooking · May 5, 2003

MISSTATEMENT ALERT

Originally posted by justlooking
Leaving yourself out of it, what percentage of strippers at your club would you say have NEVER had sex with a customer outside the club (whether it's for cash or not almost doesn't make a difference)? (I was gonna say that if it's a percentage in more than single digits I don't think you're being candid -- but then I remembered that strippers all lie to each other about this subject. So maybe this is a case where guys like slinkybender and me actually know more than you do about what goes on in clubs like yours.)

Whoops.

Should have been, "I was gonna say that if it isn't a percentage in more than single digits . . . ."

Sorry.

Danielle · May 5, 2003

And now I understand, beyond a shadow of a doubt, why I'm not. Because number one, I'm not a "clean" girl who misleads people with the whole false promise of sex or outside relationship thing (at least not anymore at all) and number two, I'm not a "dirty" girl in the champagne room.
I think that 7's previous post was fantastic, with the exception of her saying that the girls who make the least are strippers because they offer the least and promise the most. I've learned the girls who actually make the least are the ones who both offer the least and promise the least. The what you see is what you get girl, basically like myself.
One of the problems I've encountered with having discussions with people on this board is that they dredge up these old quotes of mine that don't neccesarily apply to the way I feel anymore because my thoughts have evolved since then and try to use them as ammunition for argument's sake. My question about why I'm not a top earner has obviously been answered a million times over, I think.

Danielle · May 5, 2003

Re: MISSTATEMENT ALERT

JL - I couldn't possibly answer this question and I won't even try. Because I've surprised MYSELF at times in this bussiness. I couldn't even begin to scrutinize the extracurricular activities of my coworkers, because you can't judge a book by its cover and you're absolutely right that girls lie to eachother about any number of things while on the job.
I am often amazed at the shocked reactions I get from coworkers when they discover simple things about me like; I've experimented with drugs in the past, I worked at the Paradise Club, my language can often be sprinkled with curse words, etc, etc. ' My God "Danielle", I thought you were such a good girl!' Without admitting to anything too incriminating, allow me to say that it's the good girls who make the best bad girls.

Danielle · May 5, 2003

Re: Re: 7 Just Looking

Originally posted by justlooking
7, please don't think I'm going after you, but I have to tell you that you don't know as much yet about the nuts-and-bolts aspects of full-service prostitution as you do about Strippers and Sexual Entertainers.

(E.g., most full-service prostitutes make much less than $400 a trick, and only the worst rip-offs cut off a session after the guy comes once -- reputable full-service prostitutes schedule by the hour. If you think they can "easily" make a "guaranteed" $1000 a day -- much less "at leisure" -- you're going to be very disappointed if you ever decide to go that route.)

(Rereading the foregoing, the language sounds harsh. Please believe me, 7, I don't mean it that way.)

what do you do after he comes? (Dumb question of the month, but seriously, less than $400 for a double header?)
Or do the two of you just share a ciggarrette and cuddle?

justlooking · May 5, 2003

Re: Re: Re: 7 Just Looking

Depends. I've honestly had a time where the woman and I began reciting the next-to-the last scene of Henry V (no, that's not the part that goes, "Once more into the breach"). But somehow most prostitutes and most johns just aren't that pretentious.

Yeah. Less than $400 for a double header.

No one said that kind of work is easy. It isn't.

(Also, most guys who aren't capable of double headers are fully capable of spacing things out so that a single header will fill a large part of their hour. And most reputable prostitutes are capable of doing that, too.)

(But also, of course there can be cuddling and chatting both before and after.)

Danielle · May 5, 2003

I didn't incorrectly categorize them, I just didn't discover until later on in my dealings with them that they were category 2 or 3. and I think that for the purposes of my making money off of them with the understanding that I won't provide them with any extras then where I'm concerned they're still category 1. I will never feel "bad" about taking anyone's money as long as I feel that we're on the same page about what's actually invovled in our bussiness transaction. ie, I will dance for you, sit and chat with you, I WILL NOT give you a handjob in the champagne room or date you at some point, or meet you when my shift is over, or give you my phone number, and you will pay me $20 per dance and tip me a little extra if I sit with you for an extended period of time.

justlooking · May 5, 2003

Sorry. Professional habit.

(Also, unfortunately, the nature of internet discussion boards. You haven't really felt this until somebody dredges up something you said years ago.)

justlooking · May 5, 2003

In a way, this post shows where the "Phone Number" thread went wrong (and it's not Danielle's fault, IMO).

I don't think the point is Danielle's "feeling bad" or not "feeling bad". I think the point is what Danielle should understand about her customers and their expectations, so she can maximize her income while keeping herself out of trouble.

And what I and many others think she should understand is that there are very few Category 1 guys among the guys who will see her more than once (with the possible exception I sketched out in a recent post, who are Category 1 guys who are even worse from a stripper's point of view than Category 2 or 3 guys).

This is NOT so Danielle should feel bad taking their money. But rather so she can gague her actions against their likely expectations, and so she won't be taken by surprise when they start acting like they're not Category 1 guys anymore.

Slinky Bender · May 5, 2003

I think you need to review the definitions:

I can't believe you're argueing that this is a category 1 guy and not a category 2 guy to begin with.

justlooking · May 5, 2003

Maybe I'm misreading the definitions. I'm thinking of a guy who isn't looking for "extras" so much as he's looking for a girlfriend. Well, not even looking, really. More like, he finds some "nice" girl, who doesn't have "insincere sex worker" written all over her, paying attention to him, and he begins to think. If that's Category 2, then OK.

justlooking · May 5, 2003

Do you distinguish between guys who are looking for "mileage" and guys who are looking for "girlfriends", BTW?

Slinky Bender · May 5, 2003

What kind of blather is that nonsense ?

you wanted them to be category 1, so you assumed that they were for your convenince. However, that was never the case. they were category 2 or 3 from the beginning, but you just didn't "discover" that till later.

Discover? Discover?????????????????? BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
I thought it wasn't raining outside, but when I actully went outside I "discovered" that it was raining. My conclusion is therefore that it wasn't raining till I went outside.

Question: Does the lighbulb go out when you close the refrigerator door?

Higher mileage during Lap dances

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