Strip Clubs / Reality, Separating The Two

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Wwanderer

Kids, don't try this at home
Originally posted by Cat_Ballou
and even whores and escorts are free to pass on someone if he's that obnoxious...
Although the topic has been discussed and debated here (and elsewhere) many times and is sometimes controversial, I can't resist saying that I would go a lot farther than that. I would say that a provider should feel free to pass on anyone and for any reason that they deem adequate, even idle personal whims.

-Ww
 

Wwanderer

Kids, don't try this at home
Originally posted by jseah
we shouldn't infer the fact pattern since you had not said that she has already reported this to her employer
If she reported it to her employer at any point, I have not heard about it. All I heard was that the customer complained to her boss (whom I above called "the owner" in my jest but who probably is not actually the owner...just someone hired to manage the place).

-Ww
 
Originally posted by jseah
we shouldn't infer the fact pattern since you had not said that she has already reported this to her employer, but at the very least she should bring it to their attention (since their knowledge of the situation would be a prerequisite to any legal argument for harassment).
Once the customer made the complaint, wouldn't it be only logical for management to ask for her side of the story?

Most women I know would do anything to avoid having to go the legal route, but that's why it's important for management to pay attention and be supportive. By the time a woman opens up the Pandora's Box of saying There's A Problem to management, she's run out of ways to try and solve it on her own...
 
Originally posted by Wwanderer
Although the topic has been discussed and debated here (and elsewhere) many times and is sometimes controversial, I can't resist saying that I would go a lot farther than that. I would say that a provider should feel free to pass on anyone and for any reason that they deem adequate, even idle personal whims.

-Ww
Big Ditto!
 
I have spent a reasonable amount of time in a number of different Gyms and my experience is different than Harlots in that I do not prefer gyms with an obvious male homosexual clientele.

I also have spent time involved in a few different law suits (although not as much time as I have spent in gyms) and my experience is that while time spent in either generally involves pain, at least with a gym you get something out of it.

My statement about nobody winning a lawsuit, like many of the things I say, was not without some amount of hyperbole; but not that much. Between the costs, aggravation, the fact that there always are many sides to a story (particularly when you get a few lawyers involved) it seems that it is rarely in anyone’s interest to attempt to solve their problems through a lawsuit.

Wwanderer if the situation you describe is an ongoing one, and if the young lady has not been comfortable doing something to change it I certainly would think about ways in which you could help her do that.

I think that she should be encouraged to tell the guy in no uncertain terms that his attention is neither appreciated nor appropriate. If he persists, but they do not rise to the level of some form of criminal assault, she should talk to the manager.

My experience is that gyms are not one of the venues in which sexual harassment is generally tolerated. (Which isn’t to say that there isn’t some amount of guys checking the girls out, and vice versa.) Typically women comprise enough of the customer base that management has no business reason to tolerate it. In addition it seems that such behavior would be perceived as inappropriate by many of the “regulars” who usually are not reluctant to let someone know when they have breeched generally accepted gym behavior.

Obviously this does not mean that some self-absorbed predatory pervert isn’t going to try to hit on what he perceives to be a vulnerable female. I would expect though that if she does bring it to someone’s attention that she will not find herself with more than a few people willing to intervene on her behalf. And to do so in a way that remedies the situation much more swiftly than a lawsuit could.

(jseah – I have to imagine that there are still a number of hurdles which the woman will face before she is able to collect the trial court’s award from Baker McKenzie.)
 
I was thinking that litigation is a lot like war.

At times it may be unavoidable - but that doesn't mean it wouldn't have been better not to get to that point.
 

Wwanderer

Kids, don't try this at home
Originally posted by buddyyy

1 - Wwanderer if the situation you describe is an ongoing one, and if the young lady has not been comfortable doing something to change it I certainly would think about ways in which you could help her do that.

2 - I think that she should be encouraged to tell the guy in no uncertain terms that his attention is neither appreciated nor appropriate. If he persists, but they do not rise to the level of some form of criminal assault, she should talk to the manager.
1 - If I do anything at all, it would only be to make some comments and suggestions to her dad. I have heard her making some brief grumpy remarks about the job that are consistent with all the details he has told me about privately, but she has not really confided in me, and I would not feel comfortable raising the topic with her in a serious manner unless she did (which I think is unlikely). In fact, I do not really know if it bothers her as much as her dad thinks it does. It definitely bothers him and pisses him off big time.

2 - I am not even sure that this particular guy is the main problem. The way I understood it, that story was more like an example of what she has to put up with from many guys at the place she works. Maybe he is just one of the worst offenders; complaining to her boss was really an asshole move imo.

Anyway, my point in bringing the story up was not to try to get "UG wisdom" to help her deal with the problem but rather to make the point that the kind of behavior for which strip clubs were being taken to task is also common (even if less so) in other types of places of business.

-Ww
 
But then isn't THIS the answer?

Originally posted by Cat_Ballou
I could be wrong, but I don't think that having to wait on drunken, sexually agressive, courtesy-challenged yahoos counts as sexual harassment if it also qualifies as the job description...
 
Originally posted by Wwanderer
Anyway, my point in bringing the story up was not to try to get "UG wisdom" to help her deal with the problem but rather to make the point that the kind of behavior for which strip clubs were being taken to task is also common (even if less so) in other types of places of business.
Or, to put the "answer" another way, in sharpest possible contrast to strip clubs, it isn't your friend's daughter's JOB to lead that guy on.
 
I was sitting at the bar at ASSCon one night, chatting with a girl I was going to buy an impersonal version of an intimate act from. I mentioned to her that I thought ASSCon was much more honest than mainstream strip clubs. She seemed dubious (to my surprise). I explained to her that ASSCon was all about completely above-board fee-for-service arrangements, with nobody bullshiting anyone.

Her eyes actually lit up. She looked (I continued to be surprised) relieved.

"I see what you mean!" she exclaimed. "This is MUCH more honest than what I'd do in a regular strip club. Here, you just tell me what you want, and I tell you how much I want. I don't sit here and go, 'sure, I'll go out with you!'"
 
Originally posted by jseah
I may not be a lawyer.......

but my guess is that if the boss did nothing to alleviate the "hostile environment", even though he/she knew that it was happening, it could be legal grounds for a sexual harassment suit (no difference between allowing a customer to sexually harass and allowing an employee to sexually harass).
I'm not lawyer either. But I think the instances where she reported what was happening to the management have to be documented if she ever wants to pursue legal action. Otherwise it would be her word against theirs.
 
Maybe she could just request that she not be scheduled to train that particular guy any longer. They must have other personal trainers working there. They should give him a gay male trainer. That would shut him up. (or maybe not, who the hell knows.)
 

pswope

One out of three
Originally posted by pjorourke
Well of course. You are a lawyer. The lawyers always win in lawsuits -- both sides. (see comment above about winning, but not enough to cover fees)
Yes. I have met very few lawyers,who understand what 'winning' means to a client. Most,being egocentric believe they know better than their clients. And I have been on both sides.
 
Originally posted by Wwanderer
1 - If I do anything at all, it would only be to make some comments and suggestions to her dad. I have heard her making some brief grumpy remarks about the job that are consistent with all the details he has told me about privately, but she has not really confided in me, and I would not feel comfortable raising the topic with her in a serious manner unless she did (which I think is unlikely). In fact, I do not really know if it bothers her as much as her dad thinks it does. It definitely bothers him and pisses him off big time.
Maybe you should ask her if she wants to discuss this over dinner....:D....sorry, couldn't resist.
 
Originally posted by buddyyy
(jseah – I have to imagine that there are still a number of hurdles which the woman will face before she is able to collect the trial court’s award from Baker McKenzie.)
I'm sure that by the time all the appeals go through, and the attorney's get their cut, she'll have enough to rent Erin Brokovich at her local Blockbuster............
 
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