How do you guys stop?
- Thread starter keepitcovered
- Start date
Exactly my point. Hunger trumps heroin because hunger is a biological necessity and heroin is "an acquired taste." Also, going to rehab is another biological necessity (self-survival) because your desire to survive trumps your addiction. And then the other primitive urge "sleep" devours your heroin-crazed behavior and you find the peace in sleep that satisfies you on a much deeper level than than the heroin-frenzy madness. Secretly you are craving the peace of sleep and the temporary annihilation of the frantic excitement of drugs.
I am not a doctor -- you are correct but anybody who is not dead can observe his/her own behavior.
Your physical life (not spiritual life) is the absolute entanglement in the four primitive urges, food, sex, sleep and self-preservation.
Observe your day as a monger keeping these four primitive urges in mind (food, sex, sleep, self-survival)
You wake up from sleep. You might have an erection. You choose to whack-off if alone, give it to your bedmate or save it for your ATF, AMP or mystery girl of the day.
But first you must eat first, maybe only a banana.
Now, for instance you go to the AMP to satisfy sex because sleep and food was already satisfied (if you did not already cream on your bedmate) (and also provided that you don't have to go to work which is serious self-survival which trumps food, sleep, sex. If no work, no eat, no honey in bed and no place to sleep) You spot a new AMP to satisfy your sex urge but notice an unmarked white van in front of the AMP. Robert Kraft comes to mind. Now you are ill-at-ease. Self-survival is the strongest of the primitive urges. if You get caught by LE, big trouble, sex gets put on the back-burner. But you wasted a lot of time doing surveillance and worrying about the van, trips around the block, getting hungry, grab food.
Eventually you end up finding a safe place to do your dizzle, maybe one or two loads. Feel some exhaustion (if you are not hyped up on a substance, be it coffee, Viagra, herbs, anything other than a sandwich or the like) and then you sink into a soothing abyss of sleep, a nap, peace of sleep and freedom from sex, food and the worry of self-preservation."
You wake up. Check the stock market. (money is big time self-preservation. No money, no food to make semen, no $120 for the Asian chick) Realize you are hungry yet again and plan your next sexual adventure. Eventually, you go home, eat again and desire nothing more than that warm comfortable pillow, mattress and blanket to forget everything you craved all day, namely sex, food, self-preservation. Unless, you go to open the door of your home and see the lock was tinkered with and the door is open without your key. "SELF-PRESERVATION" arises and sleep, sex, food are meaningless and you muster up your will and strength to potentially fight or flight.
You don't have to be a doctor or psychiatrist to analyze your life. It is simply being aware of your habits which eventually could become addictions.
I am not a doctor -- you are correct but anybody who is not dead can observe his/her own behavior.
Your physical life (not spiritual life) is the absolute entanglement in the four primitive urges, food, sex, sleep and self-preservation.
Observe your day as a monger keeping these four primitive urges in mind (food, sex, sleep, self-survival)
You wake up from sleep. You might have an erection. You choose to whack-off if alone, give it to your bedmate or save it for your ATF, AMP or mystery girl of the day.
But first you must eat first, maybe only a banana.
Now, for instance you go to the AMP to satisfy sex because sleep and food was already satisfied (if you did not already cream on your bedmate) (and also provided that you don't have to go to work which is serious self-survival which trumps food, sleep, sex. If no work, no eat, no honey in bed and no place to sleep) You spot a new AMP to satisfy your sex urge but notice an unmarked white van in front of the AMP. Robert Kraft comes to mind. Now you are ill-at-ease. Self-survival is the strongest of the primitive urges. if You get caught by LE, big trouble, sex gets put on the back-burner. But you wasted a lot of time doing surveillance and worrying about the van, trips around the block, getting hungry, grab food.
Eventually you end up finding a safe place to do your dizzle, maybe one or two loads. Feel some exhaustion (if you are not hyped up on a substance, be it coffee, Viagra, herbs, anything other than a sandwich or the like) and then you sink into a soothing abyss of sleep, a nap, peace of sleep and freedom from sex, food and the worry of self-preservation."
You wake up. Check the stock market. (money is big time self-preservation. No money, no food to make semen, no $120 for the Asian chick) Realize you are hungry yet again and plan your next sexual adventure. Eventually, you go home, eat again and desire nothing more than that warm comfortable pillow, mattress and blanket to forget everything you craved all day, namely sex, food, self-preservation. Unless, you go to open the door of your home and see the lock was tinkered with and the door is open without your key. "SELF-PRESERVATION" arises and sleep, sex, food are meaningless and you muster up your will and strength to potentially fight or flight.
You don't have to be a doctor or psychiatrist to analyze your life. It is simply being aware of your habits which eventually could become addictions.
Why stop?
Perhaps this is the wrong place to get sober----
I've been going to AAMPs for three years. This is a hell of a lot better than leaving my wife, who stopped having sex over 15 years ago with me. It's a great deal safer than having affairs.
Like you, my landscape includes the hotels, motels and apartments where I spent a great deal of time and money. Where I parked, texted and so on. And that evanescent connection that always ended too soon.
If I were younger, unmarried, I would have a real hard time staying away. At this point I'm making up for all of those lost years in a way that doesn't make me too broke. At the age of 60 I will be done with this sooner than later.
Perhaps this is the wrong place to get sober----
I've been going to AAMPs for three years. This is a hell of a lot better than leaving my wife, who stopped having sex over 15 years ago with me. It's a great deal safer than having affairs.
Like you, my landscape includes the hotels, motels and apartments where I spent a great deal of time and money. Where I parked, texted and so on. And that evanescent connection that always ended too soon.
If I were younger, unmarried, I would have a real hard time staying away. At this point I'm making up for all of those lost years in a way that doesn't make me too broke. At the age of 60 I will be done with this sooner than later.
@mugi, your perspective is that of someone who is fundamentally balanced, the kind of person who is incapable of taking anything to the point where it becomes self-annihilating. The problem with addiction is that it does lead people to lose everything, including their lives. If that weren't the case, we wouldn't have had 47,600 deaths in the US in 2017 from overdoses of opiates. People know it's bad for them and however much they are craving the peace of sleep, balance and normality, they still end up killing themselves. Something in their wiring (we can have a chicken vs. egg discussion about this) is different. Absent outside intervention, this leads almost inevitably to self-destruction.
My sense is that addicts are driven to abusing something out of a need to escape pain. This is physically the case with people who became hooked on oxycontin after an injury or surgery. But addiction can also be a coping mechanism for otherwise intolerable emotional pain. Reality and a sense of pessimism about things ultimately getting better drive people to keep doing things that they must know will destroy them in the long run.
Single malt whiskeys may be an acquired taste but heroin certainly isn't. The problem is that as little as one dose can create cravings that a person would otherwise never have had. I'm not sure whether or not I'm a sex addict. I know that my level of activity has been higher than most of my friends (although I don't discuss my AMP visits with them). I'm pretty sure that I've experienced a level of sexual intensity and adventure that they haven't known. I wonder whether, if I were to point one or two of them in the right direction, they would go down the same road that I have. Maybe they would have one or two experiences and recoil, saying "This isn't me." Or maybe they'd be off to the races. I suspect it would have to do with how stable their current situations are and whether or not they had some kind of early trauma that left them with a constant sense of need.
As to whether or not compulsive sexual activity is an addiction, I suggest Getting Off by Erica Garza. It's a fascinating read.
Thanks everyone for a really interesting discussion. This is way cheaper than therapy and mongering.
My sense is that addicts are driven to abusing something out of a need to escape pain. This is physically the case with people who became hooked on oxycontin after an injury or surgery. But addiction can also be a coping mechanism for otherwise intolerable emotional pain. Reality and a sense of pessimism about things ultimately getting better drive people to keep doing things that they must know will destroy them in the long run.
Single malt whiskeys may be an acquired taste but heroin certainly isn't. The problem is that as little as one dose can create cravings that a person would otherwise never have had. I'm not sure whether or not I'm a sex addict. I know that my level of activity has been higher than most of my friends (although I don't discuss my AMP visits with them). I'm pretty sure that I've experienced a level of sexual intensity and adventure that they haven't known. I wonder whether, if I were to point one or two of them in the right direction, they would go down the same road that I have. Maybe they would have one or two experiences and recoil, saying "This isn't me." Or maybe they'd be off to the races. I suspect it would have to do with how stable their current situations are and whether or not they had some kind of early trauma that left them with a constant sense of need.
As to whether or not compulsive sexual activity is an addiction, I suggest Getting Off by Erica Garza. It's a fascinating read.
Thanks everyone for a really interesting discussion. This is way cheaper than therapy and mongering.
Extreme drugs short-circuit the entire system. Those extreme drugs like heroin, LSD, cocaine do not exist as they are in nature. They are a derivative from an organic source but extracted from that natural source, those portions that are narcotic in nature. So, they upset the natural balance of food, sex, sleep and self-preservation. When somebody seeks help from heroin addiction, in a moment of clarity or coming down, that self, seeking help, knowing that their downward spiral will lead to death of the body, is expressing the primitive urge of self-preservation. Self-preservation trumps food, sex and sleep by far.
But coming off the drug, they will seek food and sleep when deprived from the drug or a substitute drug. Natural desire for sex is a fairly good indication of strength of the organism, as it is expressing overabundance of nutrition and the ability to procreate. However, the need for artificially induced sexual stimulants is an indication that the body is drained and not capable of replicating itself naturally so a sexual stimulant is taken to stimulate that action. In ancient cultures, after sex, there was a list of recovery foods to super-nourish the body to replace lost precious semen.
After heroin addiction, John Lennon was left physically drained even though off the drug for a while and unable to father a child. He turned to oriental medicine to return to health and father a child. The "Guitar God," Eric Clapton, got off heroin with the help of acupuncture. But I think he used alcohol as an alternative drug.
During the "opium wars" in China, traditional herbalists created acupuncture techniques and herbal remedies to ameliorate the opium withdrawals. China had many elaborate "opium dens," parlors to fall into for sometimes days to kick back and enjoy the ride. Glad I wasn't around. Might be a difficult intoxication to resist. But knowing me, I would opt out and go for the Chinese Brothel instead.
But coming off the drug, they will seek food and sleep when deprived from the drug or a substitute drug. Natural desire for sex is a fairly good indication of strength of the organism, as it is expressing overabundance of nutrition and the ability to procreate. However, the need for artificially induced sexual stimulants is an indication that the body is drained and not capable of replicating itself naturally so a sexual stimulant is taken to stimulate that action. In ancient cultures, after sex, there was a list of recovery foods to super-nourish the body to replace lost precious semen.
After heroin addiction, John Lennon was left physically drained even though off the drug for a while and unable to father a child. He turned to oriental medicine to return to health and father a child. The "Guitar God," Eric Clapton, got off heroin with the help of acupuncture. But I think he used alcohol as an alternative drug.
During the "opium wars" in China, traditional herbalists created acupuncture techniques and herbal remedies to ameliorate the opium withdrawals. China had many elaborate "opium dens," parlors to fall into for sometimes days to kick back and enjoy the ride. Glad I wasn't around. Might be a difficult intoxication to resist. But knowing me, I would opt out and go for the Chinese Brothel instead.
Just curious ...How do you know he's a layman?
He may be a laywoman.
Or he may lay men &/or women
Or he may be a Dr. who lays men &/or women
FWIW dying from a drug addiction withdrawal is because the drugs have pervaded the body as well as the mind.
Now what you really might argue is whether those other addictions pervade the body as well as the mind.
just sayin
He may be a laywoman.
Or he may lay men &/or women
Or he may be a Dr. who lays men &/or women
FWIW dying from a drug addiction withdrawal is because the drugs have pervaded the body as well as the mind.
Now what you really might argue is whether those other addictions pervade the body as well as the mind.
just sayin
Certainly sex addition is real. We can feel trapped, frustrated, bored and give up to our temptation for the quick fix. We can use independent hos, porn, or AMP visits to get that thrill and sooth the itch. We are weak, and can usually feel the guilt, no matter how well it went. I stopped for many years. I just wanted to be faithful when I got married. Porn always stayed with me, but I hadn't touched another woman until about 6 months ago. Now I need to fight the constant urge and weight on my mind. It is distracting, and I am dropping the ball on things I need to do. I found a provider who is awesome and I just think about her all the time. If I can keep this thing to maybe once a month, it might be OK, I am thinking. But, it hasn't been. If she is resting or unavailable, I run out to dip my stick somewhere else. I feel like I am getting in trouble with our hobby. Yikes, I gotta get it under control again.
I did not start the discussion of heroin and drugs. It really has no place here. I don't know why it came up. But, I addressed it the best I could, full-well-knowing that drug addiction is quite a bit different than sexual addiction, mainly because for a healthy virile man, sexual desire is as natural as eating and sleeping and protecting one's survival.
We were discussing a sincere gentleman's dilemma who had the courage to come before this board where we mostly discuss with great pride our savvy with respect to mongering. This sincere gentleman, humbled himself to ask a question that maybe is on most of our minds or will be in the future, but most of us would never address it in a forum devoted to pleasure possibly for fear of ridicule.
WE HAVE ALL THOUGHT ABOUT IT AT SOME TIME OR ANOTHER. WE HAVE ALL FELT DISGUSTED BY IT AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER. Maybe not if you are uncommitted. But if you are cheating and you go home to a loyal wife that raised your kids and cooks for you and runs your errands and you look in her eyes and say "Hi Honey," how can "WE" not feel like garbage? She kept her side of the agreement through thick and thin and "I did not." She is called the weaker sex but really who is greater? But that only really applies if there is a commitment.
But "nature" don't give a damn about that marriage certificate. It will operate just as forcefully in you as it does in those "silverback gorillas" mentioned in another thread by one of our moderators blessed with a writing style that rivals Shakespeare.
SO THAT IS ONE SHIT-LOAD OF A DILEMMA TO BE IN. I am in the middle of it, too, and I ponder it daily but I would never have the guts to come before this board and bring it up for fear of "killing the mood and appearing weak"
But this fine gentleman is speaking the truth within him and it is here now to deal with. And it isn't heroin or any other drug. It is SEX. The problem is ancient. Read the bible. And the cat is out of the bag. This board has come full circle.
And this man with a brain is searching for answers. And he did not go to a psychiatrist or a holy man. He came to us, mongers, his peers.
My theory about the four primitive urges of nature namely sex, sleep, self-preservation and food is true, not because I say it but because it has been analyzed by original thinkers far beyond me. I merely reiterated it.
I made that marriage commitment and I damn-well tried to keep it for 8 years without a single indiscretion but day and night the variety of females were allowed by me to enter and remain in my consciousness. I could have dispelled them. Sometimes you just want to smack a wise-guy but you dispel that thought. I chose to allow those thoughts given by nature to replicate themselves into the thousands and since "Thought is Father to the Deed," eventually picked up where I left off before marriage and fulfilled my fantasy life. Why? The ladies gave me approval. Let me feel relevant again. Reinforced my ego that I am a virile male. Let me prove to myself that I can satisfy any woman; not just my wife. Temporarily satisfied a lonliness. Let me be with women out of my league. Let me feel young and spry again, like a schoolboy in love and many other feelings related to my ego.
A woman once brought her son who was addicted to sugar to see Mahatma Gandhi for the sole purpose
of having this saint admonish the child and tell him to stop this addiction that is rotting his teeth and causing him health problems. Gandhi was one of the greatest men in the country and the child would obey him, as he would not obey his mother. Gandhi looked at the child and then looked at the mother and told the mother to bring the kid back next week. She went home and came back the following week with the child and Gandhi told the child to stop this habit that is hurting him. The mother asked why did you not tell him this last week? And Gandhi replied, "Because up until last week, I was not able to give up sugar."
So, I can't just say to a fellow monger to give up mongering because he has a wife and a marriage. So do I.
Saint Augustine who was addicted to sex prayed to God, "Lord, Make me pure, but not yet." He wasn't finished with the habit. He eventually kicked the habit. Some Higher spiritual pleasure was bestowed upon him that was more satisfying. They say once you taste the pleasures of THE HOLY SPIRIT, the little earthly pleasures just vanish.
There was a time when I thought it was fine, "hey, we all do it." But it bothers me that I could not do what other husbands have done and I definitely have hurt my marriage.
On the other hand, forgetting the guilt, I had one hell of a great time and I satisfied many desires and fantasies.
So, here we are, no closer to an answer. I try to be sincere to my family, friends and the world in every other respect and I am not proud of the fact that I am a cheater and I do pray that someday, I might be able to overcome this addiction. I keep that as a goal. And I let my wife and everybody else know that she is truly my better half.
Thanks for listening and I apologize if now or at any other time I offended anybody with my remarks or just by their lengthy nature, I bored you.
We were discussing a sincere gentleman's dilemma who had the courage to come before this board where we mostly discuss with great pride our savvy with respect to mongering. This sincere gentleman, humbled himself to ask a question that maybe is on most of our minds or will be in the future, but most of us would never address it in a forum devoted to pleasure possibly for fear of ridicule.
WE HAVE ALL THOUGHT ABOUT IT AT SOME TIME OR ANOTHER. WE HAVE ALL FELT DISGUSTED BY IT AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER. Maybe not if you are uncommitted. But if you are cheating and you go home to a loyal wife that raised your kids and cooks for you and runs your errands and you look in her eyes and say "Hi Honey," how can "WE" not feel like garbage? She kept her side of the agreement through thick and thin and "I did not." She is called the weaker sex but really who is greater? But that only really applies if there is a commitment.
But "nature" don't give a damn about that marriage certificate. It will operate just as forcefully in you as it does in those "silverback gorillas" mentioned in another thread by one of our moderators blessed with a writing style that rivals Shakespeare.
SO THAT IS ONE SHIT-LOAD OF A DILEMMA TO BE IN. I am in the middle of it, too, and I ponder it daily but I would never have the guts to come before this board and bring it up for fear of "killing the mood and appearing weak"
But this fine gentleman is speaking the truth within him and it is here now to deal with. And it isn't heroin or any other drug. It is SEX. The problem is ancient. Read the bible. And the cat is out of the bag. This board has come full circle.
And this man with a brain is searching for answers. And he did not go to a psychiatrist or a holy man. He came to us, mongers, his peers.
My theory about the four primitive urges of nature namely sex, sleep, self-preservation and food is true, not because I say it but because it has been analyzed by original thinkers far beyond me. I merely reiterated it.
I made that marriage commitment and I damn-well tried to keep it for 8 years without a single indiscretion but day and night the variety of females were allowed by me to enter and remain in my consciousness. I could have dispelled them. Sometimes you just want to smack a wise-guy but you dispel that thought. I chose to allow those thoughts given by nature to replicate themselves into the thousands and since "Thought is Father to the Deed," eventually picked up where I left off before marriage and fulfilled my fantasy life. Why? The ladies gave me approval. Let me feel relevant again. Reinforced my ego that I am a virile male. Let me prove to myself that I can satisfy any woman; not just my wife. Temporarily satisfied a lonliness. Let me be with women out of my league. Let me feel young and spry again, like a schoolboy in love and many other feelings related to my ego.
A woman once brought her son who was addicted to sugar to see Mahatma Gandhi for the sole purpose
of having this saint admonish the child and tell him to stop this addiction that is rotting his teeth and causing him health problems. Gandhi was one of the greatest men in the country and the child would obey him, as he would not obey his mother. Gandhi looked at the child and then looked at the mother and told the mother to bring the kid back next week. She went home and came back the following week with the child and Gandhi told the child to stop this habit that is hurting him. The mother asked why did you not tell him this last week? And Gandhi replied, "Because up until last week, I was not able to give up sugar."
So, I can't just say to a fellow monger to give up mongering because he has a wife and a marriage. So do I.
Saint Augustine who was addicted to sex prayed to God, "Lord, Make me pure, but not yet." He wasn't finished with the habit. He eventually kicked the habit. Some Higher spiritual pleasure was bestowed upon him that was more satisfying. They say once you taste the pleasures of THE HOLY SPIRIT, the little earthly pleasures just vanish.
There was a time when I thought it was fine, "hey, we all do it." But it bothers me that I could not do what other husbands have done and I definitely have hurt my marriage.
On the other hand, forgetting the guilt, I had one hell of a great time and I satisfied many desires and fantasies.
So, here we are, no closer to an answer. I try to be sincere to my family, friends and the world in every other respect and I am not proud of the fact that I am a cheater and I do pray that someday, I might be able to overcome this addiction. I keep that as a goal. And I let my wife and everybody else know that she is truly my better half.
Thanks for listening and I apologize if now or at any other time I offended anybody with my remarks or just by their lengthy nature, I bored you.
These are all understandable reasons for what we do. I was listening to a radio show about the sex industry when a provider with a European accent called in to make a single observation. The overwhelming need of nearly all of her clients was to feel less alone. Apart from the intense stimulation and satisfaction from my encounters, I get the luxury of opening up to another person that just isn't available to me in my day to day life. I am not in a relationship, so not cheating in the conventional sense. But I know that as long as I do this regularly, I'm unlikely to enter into the kind of relationship that could make me happier in the long run. So the concern is more about short-changing myself.
You are short changing yourself for sure if you are not pursuing or in a relationship because of this hobby.
I've heard many pros say they are there to make Men feel less lonely that's good for them to feel they are helping these Men. Its sad that some Men feel lonely and have to seek pros to help with loneliness.
I've heard many pros say they are there to make Men feel less lonely that's good for them to feel they are helping these Men. Its sad that some Men feel lonely and have to seek pros to help with loneliness.
LOL. The key is to remain solvent just long enough.
Along those lines:
I once said to a buddy of mine that my goal was to time the spending on my adventures such that I draw my last breath in life as I am spending my last dime.
He said "You are thinking small. I plan to draw my last breath in life as I am spending the last dime from all the unsecured loans I have maxed out."
Along those lines:
I once said to a buddy of mine that my goal was to time the spending on my adventures such that I draw my last breath in life as I am spending my last dime.
He said "You are thinking small. I plan to draw my last breath in life as I am spending the last dime from all the unsecured loans I have maxed out."
I respectfully disagree in that "men feel lonely and have to seek pros..." Comfort and intimacy always requires one to give something back, especially one's time and emotional labor. Pros fill that void for me in a marriage that nothing else has been able to do, including alcohol, meds, hobbies.
It's when the paid intimacy attempts to cross boundaries---that's when the fantasy falls apart.
It's when the paid intimacy attempts to cross boundaries---that's when the fantasy falls apart.
