Does she really like you?
- Thread starter Slinky Bender
- Start date
Why it matters (to the utility of UG)
I have been a member of quite a number of groups, both online and irl, in which people discussed and debated their strongly held beliefs on controversial and important (at least to the people involved) topics. Some of these groups focused on one or a few topics, sometimes rather technical ones; in other cases the discussions were as wide ranging and open ended as one could imagine...no less than the range of topics we discuss on UG.
Broadly speaking, these groups fall into one of two quite different categories. Groups of one category, let's call them type A just for the fun of sounding like a social scientist, tend to build feelings of group camraderie, positive morale and enthusiasm. They often lead to real personal affection and even lifelong friendships. The participants tend to recall them fondly long after the groups dissolve. Etc. Groups of the other category, you guessed it...type B, are pretty much the opposite (of course...dialectic analysis is irresistable). They tend to make people unhappy, angry, resentful, alienated from the group and so forth. They give birth to lifelong animosities all too often. And so forth; you get the picture I'm sure. Of course, some groups, especially big ones, can be a bit of both A and B type...for different subgroups and/or at different points in their histories. Lots of complexities swept away in generalizations here, but I think the basic dichotomy is a valid one.
Oh, and no minor point is that type A groups are much more likely to achieve their goals in cases in which the group has some well defined goal or purpose.
And so what is the difference? What makes a particular group type A or B? It is subtle and difficult to pin down in any precise way, but it has something to do with whether or not the members of the group generally feel supported or feel threatened, feel appreciated or ciriticized, feel more likely to be rewarded for "success" or poitive contributions or to be punished for "failure" or negative contributions, feel liked or disliked...and so forth. Again, I am sure that the overall point I am making is clear, and indeed familiar to most of us from our own experiences. The differences are set by individual personalities, especially those of the leaders or most active members, by the style of the discourse, by the way matters of status and hierarchy are handled, by ...
But while it is simple to describe, it is not easy to manage. Neither a group nor its leaders/organizers can simply decide to have type A or type B. It mostly emerges out of some sort of complexities of the group dynamics. Maybe it is like chaos; a relatively small matter can have large consequences for the group's type (mood, style, etc). I donno.
Anyway, fwiiw, I have the impression that UG (or, more precisely, the subset of UG that participates in the threads I mostly read and post to) has been drifting sharply from A towards B in recent weeks and months. I doubt that we could any longer have some of the best (most valuable to me, at least) discussions that were going on only a few months back. And, I think that this particular thread makes this drift particularly vivid. It is really too bad.
-Ww
I have been a member of quite a number of groups, both online and irl, in which people discussed and debated their strongly held beliefs on controversial and important (at least to the people involved) topics. Some of these groups focused on one or a few topics, sometimes rather technical ones; in other cases the discussions were as wide ranging and open ended as one could imagine...no less than the range of topics we discuss on UG.
Broadly speaking, these groups fall into one of two quite different categories. Groups of one category, let's call them type A just for the fun of sounding like a social scientist, tend to build feelings of group camraderie, positive morale and enthusiasm. They often lead to real personal affection and even lifelong friendships. The participants tend to recall them fondly long after the groups dissolve. Etc. Groups of the other category, you guessed it...type B, are pretty much the opposite (of course...dialectic analysis is irresistable). They tend to make people unhappy, angry, resentful, alienated from the group and so forth. They give birth to lifelong animosities all too often. And so forth; you get the picture I'm sure. Of course, some groups, especially big ones, can be a bit of both A and B type...for different subgroups and/or at different points in their histories. Lots of complexities swept away in generalizations here, but I think the basic dichotomy is a valid one.
Oh, and no minor point is that type A groups are much more likely to achieve their goals in cases in which the group has some well defined goal or purpose.
And so what is the difference? What makes a particular group type A or B? It is subtle and difficult to pin down in any precise way, but it has something to do with whether or not the members of the group generally feel supported or feel threatened, feel appreciated or ciriticized, feel more likely to be rewarded for "success" or poitive contributions or to be punished for "failure" or negative contributions, feel liked or disliked...and so forth. Again, I am sure that the overall point I am making is clear, and indeed familiar to most of us from our own experiences. The differences are set by individual personalities, especially those of the leaders or most active members, by the style of the discourse, by the way matters of status and hierarchy are handled, by ...
But while it is simple to describe, it is not easy to manage. Neither a group nor its leaders/organizers can simply decide to have type A or type B. It mostly emerges out of some sort of complexities of the group dynamics. Maybe it is like chaos; a relatively small matter can have large consequences for the group's type (mood, style, etc). I donno.
Anyway, fwiiw, I have the impression that UG (or, more precisely, the subset of UG that participates in the threads I mostly read and post to) has been drifting sharply from A towards B in recent weeks and months. I doubt that we could any longer have some of the best (most valuable to me, at least) discussions that were going on only a few months back. And, I think that this particular thread makes this drift particularly vivid. It is really too bad.
-Ww
Last edited:
Comment in generality about Ww's above post:
Most of the time, when things like that happen, it's because there's way too much discussion about some "offense", which WAY outshadows the "actual offense", and all sorts of folks who have "no dog in the fight" spend all sorts of energy complaining about "how things are going to shit around here", etc. and even going so far as to spend lots of energy giving other folks advice on how to ignore the offending item, etc, but all the while simply bringing the issue up over and over again.
What's my point? Part of ignoring something and having go away is actually ignoring it so it goes away, as opposed to talking over and over again about ignoring it.
Most of the time, when things like that happen, it's because there's way too much discussion about some "offense", which WAY outshadows the "actual offense", and all sorts of folks who have "no dog in the fight" spend all sorts of energy complaining about "how things are going to shit around here", etc. and even going so far as to spend lots of energy giving other folks advice on how to ignore the offending item, etc, but all the while simply bringing the issue up over and over again.
What's my point? Part of ignoring something and having go away is actually ignoring it so it goes away, as opposed to talking over and over again about ignoring it.
ww's comment
caused in me, and i know there must be a word for it: a certain chiarascuro of emotions. what's he's saying is true. but, i wonder if a board is organic, and that sets in, whether the organism can transform back? i wonder.
what's the word for happy/sad e.g.? there MUST be a german word for it.
caused in me, and i know there must be a word for it: a certain chiarascuro of emotions. what's he's saying is true. but, i wonder if a board is organic, and that sets in, whether the organism can transform back? i wonder.
what's the word for happy/sad e.g.? there MUST be a german word for it.
Last edited:
I know this might be piling on but ...
Shit HvB, if you are going to use a word like chiaroscuro, at least spell it right.
Shit HvB, if you are going to use a word like chiaroscuro, at least spell it right.
Re: Why it matters (to the utility of UG)
I for one, would hate to see that happen. I've enjoyed posting on UG and have wasted more time here than I ever would care to tally.
If it would help any, I am willing to swear off taunting HvB (notwithstanding my spelling correction above) despite the fact that I find it great sport and poetic justice given the way she has treated others here.
I for one, would hate to see that happen. I've enjoyed posting on UG and have wasted more time here than I ever would care to tally.
If it would help any, I am willing to swear off taunting HvB (notwithstanding my spelling correction above) despite the fact that I find it great sport and poetic justice given the way she has treated others here.
when I joined this board, I was duped into arguments and tried constantly to defend my position.
And I kept going on and on.
People that have been here longer than me, should know better.
Who the fuck cares what someone thinks of you.
Just think of the fucking nerve of some people to attack your beliefs, attack your grammar, spelling, structure of paragraphs, etc......what do they think this is.......this is a board that discusses pussy. Its fine that there are beautiful writers that can produce fluent and well worded responses. But there are alot of posters like me, that for lack of a better word, suck at it.
And to all that comment on others, you are no better
Im not impressed with anyone here that thinks they are literary geniuses.
The conversations may start to go downhill, only because too many people waste too much time attacking other posters instead of contributing something positive to a conversation, other than hey, check your spelling asshole.
And I kept going on and on.
People that have been here longer than me, should know better.
Who the fuck cares what someone thinks of you.
Just think of the fucking nerve of some people to attack your beliefs, attack your grammar, spelling, structure of paragraphs, etc......what do they think this is.......this is a board that discusses pussy. Its fine that there are beautiful writers that can produce fluent and well worded responses. But there are alot of posters like me, that for lack of a better word, suck at it.
And to all that comment on others, you are no better
Im not impressed with anyone here that thinks they are literary geniuses.
The conversations may start to go downhill, only because too many people waste too much time attacking other posters instead of contributing something positive to a conversation, other than hey, check your spelling asshole.
Despite my post above, I very strongly agree with SB on this point. In fact, I thought hard, hesitated, thought again and hesitated some more before finally deciding to post about type A and B and so forth. I finally concluded that it might be a different enough perspective to be worth stating, despite the disadvantage of further prolonging this thread. I may well have been wrong; if so, mea culpa.
In any case, I do not expect to have anything further to say about it.
-Ww
In any case, I do not expect to have anything further to say about it.
-Ww
The usual outcome of things like this is enevitably people not posting things that they feel will be ripped apart by others. Especially when someone makes a truly honest heartfelt post and someone comes in and tries to use their posts to belittle them. Personally I don't give a rats ass what a person thinks. they can think their post will somehow hurt me simply because I made a post that was a truly honest account of what my perception and feelings are.
So what do i do? Stop posting because I fear that some intelectual bully will try and belittle me and worse yet try and use my own posts against me by repeatedly attempting to rub things in my face that they feel are my sore points. Sure I have feelings but my skin is enormoulsly thick. Unfortunately anyone who is new here or lurking will inevitably stop and avoid posting because they fear their honesty will be used against them. Well I can say that it takes alot more than the likes of someone who I have no respect for nor do i believe the on line persona they try to pretend to be. Lets face it all we know about people is what they allow us to know. With the exception of course of back channel info, and believe me there is MUCH of this. Enough in fact that I laugh at much was said in this thread. 'cause you never know what might have been going on before your time here, and you may also end up with egg on your face.
Sad thing is is that BS like this scares away people from making open and hoest posts if they even venture to post at all. Then again a great deal here would get glee from being one of the few here and screw everyone else. Which comes down to understanding (within ones self) why we even post on UG.
And if it don't apply then gracefully (if thats even possible) let it fly!
So what do i do? Stop posting because I fear that some intelectual bully will try and belittle me and worse yet try and use my own posts against me by repeatedly attempting to rub things in my face that they feel are my sore points. Sure I have feelings but my skin is enormoulsly thick. Unfortunately anyone who is new here or lurking will inevitably stop and avoid posting because they fear their honesty will be used against them. Well I can say that it takes alot more than the likes of someone who I have no respect for nor do i believe the on line persona they try to pretend to be. Lets face it all we know about people is what they allow us to know. With the exception of course of back channel info, and believe me there is MUCH of this. Enough in fact that I laugh at much was said in this thread. 'cause you never know what might have been going on before your time here, and you may also end up with egg on your face.
Sad thing is is that BS like this scares away people from making open and hoest posts if they even venture to post at all. Then again a great deal here would get glee from being one of the few here and screw everyone else. Which comes down to understanding (within ones self) why we even post on UG.
And if it don't apply then gracefully (if thats even possible) let it fly!
I don't want to open this up again, but let's not forget that hvb's initial response to your post, to which most everybody's agreed you overreacted, didn't belittle you in any way. (Although some of us understand how you could have come to take it that way.)
Having said that (and I already regret it), I for one am through here.
Having said that (and I already regret it), I for one am through here.
Last edited:
JL your entitled to your oppinion as i am mine.
After doing my homework I see I am not the first to experience this from her. She tends to pray on those inho that she feels will be intimidated by her, it takes a hell of alot more than someone like that to run me off. Problem is there are many others who she has ran off. Perhaps because they did not check her when they felt it warranted and I did feel it was warranted. As they say feeling are just that not facts. I have stated my resons for my feelings and don't feel the need to rehash this. I do however feel that she will think twice the next time she engages me. If not then she should be prepared for what will follow, because while she might have not had ample warning before.......she does now. The very best thing she can do is not engage me or even speak of me, I in turn will do the same. Although if I see her doing it once again to others I will pull her coat.
After doing my homework I see I am not the first to experience this from her. She tends to pray on those inho that she feels will be intimidated by her, it takes a hell of alot more than someone like that to run me off. Problem is there are many others who she has ran off. Perhaps because they did not check her when they felt it warranted and I did feel it was warranted. As they say feeling are just that not facts. I have stated my resons for my feelings and don't feel the need to rehash this. I do however feel that she will think twice the next time she engages me. If not then she should be prepared for what will follow, because while she might have not had ample warning before.......she does now. The very best thing she can do is not engage me or even speak of me, I in turn will do the same. Although if I see her doing it once again to others I will pull her coat.
Last edited:
Another Day in Group Therapy
Mabel: Do you think they're getting anywhere with all this?
Eleanor: Nope. Dr. Lecter would probably conclude that therapy is going nowhere and have their livers with fava beans and a nice Chianti.
Mabel: Is Dr. Lecter a poster or a lurker?
Eleanor: Might be. You never know.
Mabel: Do you think they're getting anywhere with all this?
Eleanor: Nope. Dr. Lecter would probably conclude that therapy is going nowhere and have their livers with fava beans and a nice Chianti.
Mabel: Is Dr. Lecter a poster or a lurker?
Eleanor: Might be. You never know.
