Clpc - New Management

[skagen]

Now, regarding other comments you made, Ozzy:

and since other men of color have had no problems with clpc, then perhaps i was right.... i also think at least one other person said the exact same thing in this thread.

So you are now claiming to have knowledge of every black man's experience at CLPC? Do you run the place? Do you know every black man in NYC - and speak for them as well?

For the record, one black person in the thread said they had an OK experience. I'm not sure how that logically leads into "ALL black people have never had any racial discrimination at CLPC.

Also let the record reflect that when I brought up the issue of racism at CLPC, April first denied it and later on admitted it, though she still failed to admit any responsibility in the matter. So kindly quit attempting to whitewash for her. April herself - in her own posts - admitted that she discriminated against black people. Your attempt to re-write historically known and accepted facts isn't going to work. You are a flat out liar attempting a bald-faced lie.

Originally posted by Ozzy
i didn't make any race-related insult...i said perhaps it was you and not your color,

When an agency denies me service over the phone, based solely on a description of my skin color, how exactly am I - the victim - at fault for the racism that occured? God help you. I don't know how you get through life being THAt ignorant.

As I said before, no doubt you also believe for instance that when Jews were ostracised and then mass-murdered, it must be their fault, not their race. People like you shouldn't be allowed to reproduce, Ozzy - it is flat out dangerous to the human race.

get over it already.... we're not in 1963 alabama anymore, the world isn't perfect but it's a lot better now than it was 40 yrs ago.

And what exactly would YOU know about any of this, considering that by you believe that racism is somehow is the fault of the victim? By your standards, racism never occurs, even while you yourself are committing it....


Do yourself a favor and shut your fly-filled trap. If you had any decency, you should be embarrassed for yourself...

 

[justme]

Ozzy - Skagen way over extended himself by making such a tremendous claim and not making it clear that it was conjecture. Moreover, he does seem to have a grudge (legitimate or not) against April. Finally, he's adopted some pretty heavy rhetoric himself, so I had made up my mind not to post on the subject, but you're getting a little too self righteous.

When you made that post to Skagen suggesting that it was his personality and not his race that kept him from seeing that CLPC employee I was offended.

I remember that thread fairly well, and from what I recall, April basically admitted that that particular providor didn't see men of color. At the time, I suggested that she fire the girl in order to remain a racially fair business, but she decided that wasn't the best course of action.

This is not the time to rehash the racism in prostitution discussion, so please don't start.

Rather, the point is that Skagen's claim of not being serviced because he was black was substantiated by someone besides Skagen. To now rewite history and claim otherwise is particularly abhorrant behavior. It's abhorrant because too many people who have suffered legitimate racism have had this argument thrown in their face, transfering the blame from an ignorant racist to the victim of racism. It's abhorrant because it leads to self-doubt of the persecuted and a maintaining of the status quo. And it's abhorrant because it trivializes a real harm done.

No, this is not Alabama in the forties. And I'm greatfull that Skagen can not be lynched for sleeping with white women or impugning their honor. Yes, we've come a long way, but your own behavior on this issue tells me that we have a long time yet to go.

Skagen - having read Ozzy's posts for several years, I'm fairly certain that while he's unsensitive at times, he's hardly a racist. Making this your point of contention fails to address your real disagreement with Oz, and undermines any real argument you might have.

 

[Nine Lives]

Skagen please tell me when you recieved bad service, and who you saw I will gladly double your refund.
As I remember when you first started attacking CLPC about a year ago it was because the girl you wanted to see did not see black gentlemen, a situation that was rectified due to the incident. I'm quite surprised to hear you have recieved bad service being you said you would never use us even after my public appology and offer of a free session. Since you appear to have such a hard-on for me you must have been really ripped off bad and I can fully understand why you are behaving as you are.
CLPC's owners split after the holidays of last year, one partner kept the biz and hired phone girls to run it (no one runs a biz like an owner) one partner went off to the city for bigger and better things. Shit happens, bigger and better things became bigger and badder problems. Said partner (who btw is engaged to other partner) ((ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh it's all begining to make sense now!)) is now back at the helm of CLPC. I have had no control or responsibility (or income, didn't need it) of CLPC from DEC 2001 until this week. Any complaints occuring from here on out should be directed at me as I am now once again in control.
The whole purpous of this thread was to really let my clients know where I am and how to contact me. In fact expect a name change pretty soon, why? Because I plan on creating something somewhere in the middle of clpc/AE. Personally I don't want to deal with girls who's self worth is $60 out of a $150 call. Right now I'm working with what I got, half the girls have been taken off the site because I'd never send them to one of MY clients. Nor do I want to deal with guys who think because they are spending 150 that me and everyone else is supposed to jump through hoops. I have had many clients who have spent $300 at AE then the next day they spend 150 at clpc, but they understand the difference. Somedays they are looking to be spoiled at Spago and others they are just looking to get they're fast food at Mickey D's.
Skagen your not a client and never will be (your decision) I have no reason to waste any of my energy on you.
There is a slew of people right here most "lurkers" by they're own words, THEY are the ones I jump through hoops for. Why? Because they treat me and my girls with respect and they understand you get what you pay for (or you should anyway!)

 

[skagen]

justme, I have made my points regarding my concerens about the agency. Which by the way, none of those had anything to do with race. That stuff is something which occured separately from my other negative experiences with the agency - and those of some other people.

It is left for April to determine what experience customers will have in future. If it is bad, well it is what it is. If April takes it as a challenge to show good faith in customer service, all the better for everyone - that is the very point of why we speak up.

I have said my piece as far as that is concerened. There is nothing to add.

However, I do myself and any black person a disservice if I were to allow Ozzy or anyone to turn blatant racism into some kind of question mark on those victimized. The finger should be pointed sqarely at those perpetrating the racism - nowhere else.

We were not even discussing race in the first place. If Ozzy feels the need attempt back handed racial references at me, it is legitimate from me to question where he is coming from. Particularly so when he called me a "racist scumbag" then chickened out and edited that comment out. Even he realized that comment wasn't something he could explain away easily once it was here in black and white. So where is he coming from, really?

Furthermore, to blame me for the racism perpetrated on me - while concurrently denying the incident - is a vile thing.

Those kind of statements cross over from territry one can excuse as mere "insensititvity". That behavior is someone actively engaged in perpetrating the racism itself.

 

[Candide]

"If you had any decency, you should be embarrassed for yourself..."

I never agree with Skagen...but all I can say is:


RIGHT ON!


A Massive DITTO to all of your posts on this page. You said it all very well.

And justme, I wish you would not defend ozzy so much. It's beneath you. He's being an asshole plain and simple.

 

[justme]

I agree that it is your (our?) responsibility to point out that comments like Ozzy's are offensive and reprehenisble. And so, I did, hoping that if he read it from me, he'd internalize it a little better.

What I completely disagree with is your making the jump from commenting on these inappropriate statements to essentiall accusing Ozzy of being a racist. I disagree with it because it recenters the discourse on racism to a place that is completely inappropriate at this stage in a struggle for equality. It's the same reason that I was so pissed off at the Florida group that protested the Taco Bell chihuahua. By making a big deal about a little thing, you shift dialog away from more central issues, such as educational access, equitable treatment in the workplace, and proper representation in government. You give the impression to outside observers that the struggle is about stupid offhanded comments or chalupa eating dogs, rather than about meaningfull issues. To me, that is a tremednous diservice to the communities you are attempting to help.

Actually, I find my own diatribes on racist prostitutes to fall into this territory, but I feel a little more justified in making them as the ostensible subject of discourse in this forum limits the latitude of subjects to talk about. IE, racism in prostitutes is relatively much more important on a prostitution message board than it is in real life.

Anyway, what you have to realize is that Ozzy's statement was made rhetorically. He was attacking you as a person, and in doing so stepped on victims of racism on accident. But I don't think he did it out of malice towards these victims as much as he did it out of malice towards you. And so by turning your argument into a defence of those people, you are effectively deflecting away the initial hostility towards yourself.

 

[Ozzy]

Candide… you of all people should remain silent after your opinion on that anti-Semitic jag thread was posted here…. Jag can delete it and make believe it didn’t happen but, at least one person saved it and reposted it here. Btw.. i thought you were banned from UG? Now go back to jag, I think one of those classic threads need some more editing.

Skagen….
i called you a "racist" because you are one. you're racist because thats the first thing you accuse everyone else of. you called april a racist because one of her girls wouldn't see you.... you didn't even let her offer to fix the situation. you don't even know the girl and you labeled her and her agency racist. you don't even know me and you label me one. practice what you preach and "look in the mirror".

as for "scumbag" i call lots of people that (look around the board) it had nothing to do with your color.

JM.. you know i respect your views and you know me better than most. i didn't mean for it to come off as fact. when i first said it, i stated it like i'd state it to any guy who for some reason was turned down for something other than race. (there's lots of reasons we all know of). i meant more or less that based on his general attitude on the board towards the providing end, i wouldn't be surprised if that's what did it. it could have been for hygiene reasons or simple gut feeling... I never said it was right (actually I condemned it) but i don't know i wasn't there. i also didn't know whether he had met the girl or not. i was only making conjecture. slagen kept pushing the issue and turned it into something else. comparring his experience (being turned down by a hooker based on his race) to a jew in 1940's europe or a bosnian during the early 90's is a very far stretch. he's waving that victim card a little to much and he deserved to have it slapped in his face. (but that's just my opinion and thats why i did it)

the fact is, is that he's been carrying this for a long time. the fact that he still harbors these feelings towards april and clpc about that experience so long ago, makes any opinion of his quite biased when it comes to april and her agency and i wanted to point that out. we're all adults here and although the truth hurts and is sometimes ugly... it is the truth. he's also not the only person who's experienced this.. but he seems to handle it a lot differently than most of the others that we’ve heard from. How about hank (the original) from bigdog a month or so ago who made it all the way to tiffany's (the wet one) apt and bought a gift and or bottle of wine, only to be turned away.... he reported his experience there was some discussion and he moved on. i think he wasted a little more time and money than skagen seems to have been ripped off for. as i stated here on UG at the time.. i know hank from off the boards and have personally spoken to him in the past. he's a total gentlemen and as i said back then.."tiffany made a huge mistake" in turning him away, he is one of the very few men on any of these boards that i would personally vouch for to any girl…. And I have in the past.


PS.. i told a story here how when i was 12 years old i went to paris with my family and pissed on the eifel tower because of racist treatment my family received while staying in paris.... now although there's other reasons i've become aware of since then that make me feel about the french like i do now.. i was 12 then, when i did that. how old are you skagen, and when are you gonna stop pissing on april and her service?

 

[justme]

Oz - I know what you meant, I was just pointing out that you should have made your point a different way. If I thought you meant it in a racist way, my post would have been very different. I do think that it's important that you acknowledge that it was racism that kept skagen out of session that day. I know it would make me feel better.

I told skagen that I didn't think you were a racist, and I'll tell you that I don't think skagen is a racist. Although I disagree with the way he responded to you, I hardly think this is evidence of his having any real racist feelings. Just as his accusing you of such sentiments undermines his arguments, I think your accusal undermines yours. If skagen replies as a victim, it is most likely because he has been a victim in the past. Once you've experienced racism a few times, it becomes very difficult to remain objective on the subject.

Candide - Defend him? I thought I was chastising him. Seriously, though, if I 'defend' Ozzy it's only because despite his numerous faults, I think he's essentially a good guy. I think he posts to quickly, and I think he says a lot of things without meaning too because of poor choice of words, but usually his heart's in the right place... even if he is an asshole.

Of course, none of that's to say that I don't think that by this point it should be incredibly obvious to everyone in UG land that the board would be best served if you two ignored each other's posts.

 

[Candide]

Justme - A good guy?! I don't see that. Ozzy is stupid, which is almost the same thing as being a racist.

Ozzy - you stole my posts - altered them, post them out of context and you are a lying jerk. I am a Jew, stupid, and my opinion about anti-semitism is the opinion of a Jew who has experienced it first hand. Personally, I am prejudiced against stupid people. You don't sound like a racist so much as you sound like an insensitive and very stupid person. And I did not see the entire thread with all of it's remarks. My opinion on that thread doesn't exist because I didnt see all of it. You posted my post and that thread here because you are using it out of context for your own stupid idiotic purposes. You had better stop it and you had better distance yourself from that maniac Rufus who has the same inability to keep his paws off my posts. I know they're good but hey c'mon already!

 

[Candide]

Justme - Ignore his posts? I think he had better stop stealing my posts and posting them without my permission or I will certainly not ignore it.

 

[justme]

Although racism is a 'kind of stupidity', they are surely different things. I mean, I've met otherwise brilliant racists, and then there's the simple sort that somehow manages to get the concept of justice, 'right'.

Of course you won't ignore his posts. Still, I think it would be better for your blood pressure if you did.

Prediction - Oz, Candide, and occasionally SB engage in a flame war over the next few days. Eventually, Candide get's emotionally pissed off over the whole thing and storms off.

 

[Candide]

I don't ignore his posts because I don't have that luxury. I get threatening phone calls. So now I'm putting the pressure back on you guys. U.G. and JAG can fight like cats and dogs for all I care. Leave my name out of it please. Then I will be able not to come here anymore - it really isn't part of my day's itinerary.

I don't get emotionally pissed off. I get disgusted with everyone including myself. Well, maybe that's the same thing.

 

[Ozzy]

by Candide
I am a Jew, stupid, and my opinion about anti-semitism is the opinion of a Jew who has experienced it first hand.

Candide... the tiffany who i mentioned earlier in this thread who refused to see a man because he was black.... is black herself, so are you saying that since she's black (just as you are a jew) that it's impossible for for her (or you) to be racist towards your own kind?


and you call me stupid?

 

[Ozzy]

Originally posted by Candide

Ozzy - you stole my posts - altered them, post them out of context and you are a lying jerk. I am a Jew, stupid, and my opinion about anti-semitism is the opinion of a Jew who has experienced it first hand. Personally, I am prejudiced against stupid people. You don't sound like a racist so much as you sound like an insensitive and very stupid person. And I did not see the entire thread with all of it's remarks. My opinion on that thread doesn't exist because I didnt see all of it. You posted my post and that thread here because you are using it out of context for your own stupid idiotic purposes. You had better stop it and you had better distance yourself from that maniac Rufus who has the same inability to keep his paws off my posts. I know they're good but hey c'mon already!

ah candide.... i didn't copy a single word let alone a post of yours out of context from that anti semite thread. if i did please point it out to me and the rest of us. i think everyone here knows i'm not the ghost of jag... he has a much better vocabulary than i do as evidenced by his/her comments in those threads.

 

[WernerErhard]

im still trying to find a decent bbbj for $150.

 

[mydesign]

Ozzy,
You can be a real prick sometimes and a shill, but at least you post what you honestly believe. But just because skagen accuses april of being a racist, does not, in itself, make him a racist.

Skagen,
You are the crybaby who wants to hate april because one of her ladies didn’t want to see you. I have counted at least TWO (2) times Ms. April has extended the olive branch and offered to give you a freebie, to make up for whatever insult her employee gave you, yet you reject them. Why? Is it because you think she does not deserve a second chance? Like a leopard cannot change its spots, eh?

You seem to think April owes you more. Earth-to-Skagen: She’s the madam of a whorehouse, you idiot. She don’t owe you shit. The fact that she offered you anything when you complained showed she has some redeeming virtue. If you didn’t want to accept her offer, then you should have at least dropped it there and then.

And you personally show yourself as a little man when you attack a madam who is trying to get back on her feet after she got busted by the police. She got thrown in the klink and her business and her dreams have been shattered. Yet all you can do, like a vindictive little man with a little dick, is continue to rail against her, then attack anyone trying to defend her.

Whatever tolerance I may have had for a brat-crybaby like you has disappeared over the past few days. So stop being a fucking baby, get off your stroller and stop your bellyaching.


Ms. April,
You don’t owe this lowlife piece of shit anything. I would retract my offer if I were you.

 

[Candide]

Ozzy, talking to you feels like I'm beating my head against a concrete wall. I give up. You don't listen and you avoid the parts of the argument you can't explain away and you just have to be right. You do not listen because you don't want to. You don't care what anyone has to say you just want to make your point. Why didn't you say that in the first place?

 

[Ozzy]

candide...

what the hell are you talking about? you accuse me of copying your posts, editng them, and takng them out of context. i asked you were i did this since i never did what you're claiming. you're the one avoiding the parts of an argument you can't explain away.

as for your statement that since you're a jew you are somewhat exempt from being an anti semite.... i thought i answered that in my post above.


MD... you won't get an argument from me. yes sometimes i'm a prick but, only to those who deserve it... and if you look at candide's last few posts in this thread, you'll know why i sometimes lose my cool. she's accusing me of something which i deny and ask her to show me the proof for what she's accusing me of... she responds with this...

" Ozzy, talking to you feels like I'm beating my head against a concrete wall. I give up. You don't listen and you avoid the parts of the argument you can't explain away and you just have to be right. You do not listen because you don't want to. You don't care what anyone has to say you just want to make your point. Why didn't you say that in the first place?

as for being a shill.... no more than anyone else who posts reviews or recommends a provider on the open board.... but i've also never denied it nor have i ever accepted a kick-back for it.

 

[skagen]

Originally posted by mydesign
You seem to think April owes you more.

MyDesign, so what exactly did I ask from her? Answer. Nothing. Even in my initial thread on that racism last year. I made it clear that I was simply entering information into the record. Far from making me any offer, April actually denied racist practices altogether. She later admitted the practice, refused to take responsibility, but at same time contradicted herself by offering me a freebie. I declined, which is my right. If you dont like it, too bad - do you control my dick now? What next - you going to force me to fuck your mom because she's giving it up as a freebie?

Message for you: I want NOTHING from April. Not sure what part of that is difficult for you to process.

Originally posted by mydesign
Ms. April, You don’t owe this lowlife piece of shit anything. I would retract my offer if I were you.

The offer is clearly an act of public posturing. I repectfully and firmly declined it ages ago. It does nothing but keep racism in the picture as a diversion and to question my motivation. Retraction is irrelevant because its obvious I'm not interested in the freebie.

And for the record I am unbiased as they come. I have never hesitated to criticize ANY agency for anything - even Julies, of which I am a long time customer, has been on the pointed end of criticism from me.

My questions on April's service are nothing to do with racism. They are generated from prior experiences to that point, plus my obervation of patterns of feedback reported here and other places. If like Ozzy, you insist on trying misdirect with racism - which I'm not even injecting into the discussion - more fool you. I know where I stand.

As for you Mr. MyDesign, I don't think I have words to describe how little I think of you. Suffice it to saw that I wouldn't call you "lowlife" because I'd feel like i was giving you too much credit.

 

[skagen]

Originally posted by Ozzy
Skagen….
i called you a "racist" because you are one. you're racist because thats the first thing you accuse everyone else of. you don't even know the girl and you labeled her and her agency racist. you don't even know me and you label me one.

The "first thing"? "Everyone"? I know for sure she actied in a racist manner. She admitted it herself. Ozzy, you continue to attempt to whitewash historical facts. Again, you remain a bare-face liar.

As for you, yes I do question whether you are racist when you seem to show a great interest in denying the existense of documented and admitted racist acts.

So when you comeout here calling me of all people a "racist" it is a cowardly and empty attempt to divert from your behavior. Like I aid before, had you any decency, you should be crawling back to your gutter in shame.

Originally posted by Ozzy
PS.. i told a story here how when i was 12 years old i went to paris with my family and pissed on the eifel tower because of racist treatment my family received while staying in paris.... now although there's other reasons i've become aware of since then that make me feel about the french like i do now.. i was 12 then, when i did that. how old are you skagen, and when are you gonna stop pissing on april and her service? [/B]

No doubt you never progresed beyond the immaturity of a 12 year old. Doesn't mean the rest of the world operates at your pre-teen mental.

I said my piece abou April's racism and moved on a long time ago. I have concerns about her custmer practices - solely. Your story suggests that since you're unable to move on, you can't conceive of the possibility someone else could experience racism, move on dispassionately and continue to be objective.

No surprise there considering your limited mental capacity.

Truth is Ozzy: if we were all so fixated on past racism, as you there would be not a single black person in America who was capable of objectivity of ANY kind. Try not assume that we are all as dumb as you.