Bbfs

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#81
Bigbucks,

If you're reading this thread, would you care to post any comments on this HIV transmission-----via BBBJTC?

What's the risk for the client shooting his load in her mouth?

What's the risk for the provider taking the load in her mouth?

What's the risk for the provider taking the load on her face?

Thanks for your help/advice.

Capy
 
#82
Originally posted by littleguy
"Bigbucks has a medical backgound/MD position. He should know the facts here."

Is that true ? I must have missed that.

Anyway, I can't see anything he said that isn't true, however, it doesn't paint the complete picture.

Anybody THAT interested should visit the CDC's website and read up on it.

I orginally believed that blood to blood contact was required to pass on HIV (for purposes of this post I am ignoring other STD's) . Hence, even for BBFS, unless the guy is unusually large and/or the lady is unusually tight or the intercourse is unusually rough,, there will be NO tearing of either the vaginal walls or the penis, hence, even IF either party is HIV+, there is a reasonably good chance the virus will NOT infect the other party. This was always the main theory as to why HIV was much more prevalent among gays and IV drug users sharing needles. Gay guys often had/have unprotected anal sex wheree tearing of the skin is almost routine. IV drug users sharing needles have the other users blood in the needle and they then shoot up themselves, injecting another person's blood right into their system.

The possibilities, or chance of, spreading HIV via BBBJ, TC, NQNS, whatever, then become more clearly less risky than BBFS. There is seldom any blood to blood contact during this activity. Hence BBBJ is safer than BBFS.

However, I remember reading, a few months or so ago (don't remember where) about the "soft mucosa (sp ?)" of the mouth and/or vaginal area is susceptible to possible "attack"/entry of the HIV virus. This would appear to contradict, or more accurately, expand the "blood to blood" contact theory.

Anybody have any further info on that ?
First, yes - that is true. While I am still "in training" (as most of us are for about 10 years or so!!), I do hold an MD position.

Second, blood to blood transmission is the most obvious route of HIV transmission BUT HIV levels high enough to cause infection do exist in semen. Thus, everything you said about BBFS is wrong since semen alone (including pre-ejaculant) can contain the virus - blood-blood contact is NOT the only way to transmit HIV.

Third, Vaginal Fluids ALSO contain high enough levels of the HIV virus and thus contact with this can also cause transmission of HIV.

Hence, BBFS, whether it is anal or vaginal, is VERY high risk for BOTH the woman or the man. The reason transmission rates are higher in homosexual men is because, as you said, having anal intercourse is much more 'rough' and this usually creates numerous tears in the receipients anus through which the HIV virus can easily enter their body (transmitted through the other person's semen or blood). The "top" can also get infected since the "bottom" may be bleeding a bit and thus the blood can get into an open sore (which can be so small that you can neither feel or see it...such as a micro-tear) and this would cause transmission from the bottom to the top person.

Lastly, HIV is also present in breast milk, so if you do have a thing for lactation, be aware that is a possible avenue for HIV transmission as well.
 
#83
Originally posted by capitan

What's the risk for the client shooting his load in her mouth?

What's the risk for the provider taking the load in her mouth?

What's the risk for the provider taking the load on her face?

Thanks for your help/advice.

Capy
The biggest risk of BBBJ and cumming in the woman's mouth really lies with the woman. Yes, if she has sores in her mouth she could potentially transmit the virus to you if you also have sores (or micro-tears) on your penis. But BBBJ is pretty low risk (in terms of HIV transmission) for the guy. Because HIV levels are significant in semen, the risk is substantially higher for the provider. (HIV levels in saliva are NOT high enough to cause transmission!) The risk of getting genital herpes is high, however, if the provider has an active outbreak of oral herpes (and this can occur without ANY noticeable sores or redness around the provider's mouth).

As long as the provider doesn't have open sores on her face, then "taking the load on her face" is most likely relatively safe for both people. Remember, however, that pre-ejaculate also contains HIV so BBBJ with an ending of you cumming on her face is still UNSAFE for the provider since she most likely did get some amount of semen or pre-cum in her mouth. However, a handjob ending with you cumming on her face IS very low risk - just try to keep it out of her eyes, nose, and mouth.

Hope this info helps :) If anyone (providers or hobbyists) has any more questions, please just let me know!
 
#84
Littleguy -

You can theorize all you want about routes of transmission, the bottom line, however, as I understand it, seems to be that many males whose only risk factor was vaginal sex have contracted HIV. Whether its vaginal fluid to micro-tear or blood to the soft mucosa in trouser trout's eye, doesn't change the end result. Also, I can't tell you how many times I have withdraw from a provider only to notice traces of blood on the tip of the condom.


I have read information put out by CDC and many other governmental and institutional sources. I, however, find Bigbucks' straightforward explanations, untinged by the need to be politically correct, very very helpful.
 
#85
azzure,

Theorizing ? I wasn't doing anything differently than BigBucks. Just trying to get as much clarification/information as possible, that's all.

"many males whose only risk factor was vaginal sex have contracted HIV"

That goes without saying. It's a fact. However, "many" is a very vague number, isn't it ? I never said nor implied there was no risk associated with BBFS. Of course there is. I'm merely pointing out that, percentage-wise, while there are other activites that are higher risk, I think everybody overstates the risk of BBFS. Perhaps to err on the side of caution, fine, but, oversstate it they do. Now don't get me wrong here. I don't go looking for it myself, but I'm just looking for relative incidence rates or, if you prefer, relative RISK factor in rates of transmission via BBFS and sharing drug needles and BB anal.

You take a risk everytime you wake up and walk out the front door. Life is a risk. If you want NO risk at all, stay with your significant other and get out of the hobby. Simple as that. If not, there's nothing wrong withing knowing the percentages now, is there ? (Right Ozzy ? (grin))

BB,

"Thus, everything you said about BBFS is wrong"

You will please note that I said " I originally believed that blood to blood contact was required to pass on HIV", thus inferring that I know that is not the case. I realize that many, if not all, bodily fluids can contain differents amounts of the HIV virus. But I confess I may have been a little obtuse.

I guess what I didn't say is that any bodily fluid containing HIV, and I'm assuming that all do, (some less in volume than others, but they all do) still needs an entry into the bloodstream. So, I believe, in effect, that you could have HIV, then have BBFS with a lady, and, if the HIV had no entry into the lady's bloodstream, she would NOT catch it. Is this NOT correct ? The mucosa stuff I brought up that I heard about recently would seem to suggest that even without an open sore, or an obvious entry into the lady's bloodstream she still might catch it via said mucosa.

So I guess my question is, while the CDC and any and all medical people would (and DO) say that ANY swapping of bodily fluids is HIGH RISK (and YOU, in fact, refer to BBFS are "VERY high risk"), the fact of the matter is that HIV transmission has relative risk levels in different activities. If BBFS is VERY high risk, how would you classify sharing needles and BB anal sex ? ULTRA-HIGH, Death-wish, what exactly ? And then, of course, what would you classify BBBJTC then ? Just HIGH risk ?

I mean after all, theoretically, you could have an open sore on the back of your thigh and sit on a toilet seat that someone else with HIV just accidentally (I hope) pissed on and boom, transmission.
 
#86
As I said in my other posts on the thread "Medical / Health Information", BBFS does not provide AS high a risk for contracting HIV as most people think - especially for men (it is higher for women). This is because many people believe if you have sex with someone who has HIV just one time then you will become infected when, in fact, the transmission rate is much lower then that. But, as I also said on my other posts, having BBFS with a provider is playing russian roulette in which a myriad of bullets (HIV, HPV, and a few others) could kill you. So yes, it isn't 100% that you will get HIV if the other person is infected but that isn't the point - the point it you are playing with odds since for some people, ONE TIME IS ALL IT TAKES to become infected.

Second, if you are having sex and taking off and putting on condoms and masterbating and everything like that then you are very likely to have breaks in your skin on your genitals through which HIV can transverse. So yes, HIV needs entry into your blood stream but that really isn't a hard thing for something which is 100 times smaller then a single bacterial cell to accomplish.

You are right - IV drug use is probably the highest risk activity and unprotected anal sex is right under that and then comes unprotected vaginal sex and I can keep on listing them. But the fact is, as I said above, if you have BBFS you are playing with odds where, if you lose, YOU WILL DIE. Thus, most people don't think of a scale as you want it put but instead just rule certain activities out while allowing other activities (such as BBBJ and BBBJTC which are both relatively LOW risk for HIV).

And don't attack azzure for using the word "many". He is absolutely right for using it - since a majority of the documented cases of heterosexual transmission of HIV have been through vaginal contact and, as you know, one of the leading risk factors for HIV transmission IS vaginal sex. NOT blow jobs...not hand jobs...but vaginal sex. Why? Because MANY (a substantial amount...including a scary percentage who were infected during their first time of EVER having vaginal sex) were infected through vaginal sex while there have been hardly any documented cases of transmission from DATY or BBBJ or BBBJTC.

And no, you really can't get it from a toilet seat since HIV is killed almost instantly upon contact with air. The fact is you have to take CALCULATED chances - the chance of you dying by walking out of your house each day is small...the chance of you contracting HIV by having BBFS with a provider is much much greater then most people's limit to their own acceptable 'calculated' risk.

Lastly, I wasn't 'theorizing'. Most of my information comes from medical fact and from medical observation. With all my years of training I'd hate to think it can all be summed up as 'theorizing' as to potential health risks...
 
#87
BB,

Sorry to hear your combative tone. I'm only looking for information. Odds, if you will of contracting or not via certain activities. Sorry you feel so put upon.

"Theorizing". Nobody (or at least not I) attacked you or intimated you were theorizing. In fact, it was actually azzure who intimated *I* was theorizing.

Sorry, but "Many" is still too vague a term to be of any real use.

"the chance of you contracting HIV by having BBFS with a provider is much much greater then most people's limit to their own acceptable 'calculated' risk."

"much, much greater". Once again, what is that ? How much greater ?

Additionally, I don't know how you can speak for what "most" people's acceptable risk is either.

But again, for example, the risk of being killed crossing the street in Cold Spring Harbor is X in 1,000, the risk when crossing against the light is Y in 1,000 (presumably higher, no ?) In Manhattan it's a multiple of those two. Yet people take those chances every single day and MANY live to tell about it.

Just trying to get a relative idea of the risk of BBFS contracting HIV versus, needles, BB anal sex, blowjobs, handjobs, etc..... That's all.
 
#88
Originally posted by littleguy


Just trying to get a relative idea of the risk of BBFS contracting HIV versus, needles, BB anal sex, blowjobs, handjobs, etc..... That's all.
The fact is that these precise epidemilogical studies just don't exist - you aren't going to get solid numbers on the relative risks of BB anal verses BBBJ. So, either you use the "many" and "most" scale which you don't really have an affinity for or else you use nothing at all. I think that is what most of use have understood and why the "more then" and "many" scale works for us - because we know there is NO other scale we can use. I guess I just assumed that was obvious...and you proved me wrong.
 
#89
remembering Sue

Stumbled on some old photos today... and was surprised to find pics from a hiking trip upstate with the famous, infamous, Sue from 23rd. A short time after the blood tests, I gave up on her (too dangerous). Anyone know what ever happened to her?
 
#90
Stumbled on some old photos today... and was surprised to find pics from a hiking trip upstate with the famous, infamous, Sue from 23rd. A short time after the blood tests, I gave up on her (too dangerous). Anyone know what ever happened to her?
Are Cynthia and Sue the same person? Is that why you asked in this thread?
 
#92
"many males whose only risk factor was vaginal sex have contracted HIV"

That goes without saying. It's a fact.
No. The "fact" is that many males whose only SELF REPORTED risk factor was vaginal sex have contracted HIV.

Who the hell knows if that was really all they did?

There used to be a joke back in the early 80's when it was mostly gays, IV drug users and Haitians that were getting diagnosed with AIDS (this was before we knew about the HIV virus and the cause was a mystery)

Q: whats the hardest part of having AIDS?
A: Trying to convince your parents you are Haitian.
 
#93
Since this hibernating thread had some new life breathed into it, I will relate a story that fits. There was a provider that advertised in Newsday, and used to work out of the Abbey in Huntington, and then later on the South Shore. I went to see her, and she had a really hot body, and a decent face. She kneeled next to me in high stockings, after taking off her panties, and encouraged me to "play with her." I wasn't prepared for what happened because I got her to sit on my face for DATY, but she was only giving me a hand job. While i would have loved a bbbj, I assumed she wasn't going down because of no cover. She changed position to cowgirl, but w/o penetration, sliding her pussy lips up and down my shaft.....next thing I know, she let me pop upright, and slid it in, BB! My face must have given away my shock, and I was torn between pleasure, and horror. Well, I didn't stop her, but I had the worst guilt I ever experienced, and swore off the hobby forever (yeah, like I stuck with that...lol) but until I got the nerve to get tested, I was living in hell.....
 
#96
until I got the nerve to get tested, I was living in hell.....
A lot of us have been there done that I think. Nerve racking as hell.

First time BB with my ex SO was like that, as when I first met her, I was her customer. She showed me test results, but STILL... there is such a thing as an incubation period for most STD's, ya know?

Hell, when I first started hobbying I used to worry I could catch something from a HJ if the girl maybe didn't wash her hands well after the last customer... lol... those were days, as a 17 yo getting hj's thru the stage windows at the old peepland... or this was this nasty little place on the west side of the block on 7th, just below 42nd... better mileage, but they never cleaned the walls of the booths... used to worry I could catch something touching the walls
 
#98
PeepLand?

Hell, when I first started hobbying I used to worry I could catch something from a HJ if the girl maybe didn't wash her hands well after the last customer... lol... those were days, as a 17 yo getting hj's thru the stage windows at the old peepland... or this was this nasty little place on the west side of the block on 7th, just below 42nd... better mileage, but they never cleaned the walls of the booths... used to worry I could catch something touching the walls
lol ... Dude ... How did you get them to give HJs through the stage windows at PeepLand???

Any time I was in midtown, back then, I used to climb those stairs with the lighted phrases in the toe-kicks ... up to the second floor with its disorienting cherckerboard tile. The girls would be perched above their booths, catcalling for their audience.

But once in the booth ... the windows were chest-high, and the girls made you put both hands through. I had thought about standing on something to ... make things more fun for me, as they were already having fun with my digital skills, but that little window divider used to come down pretty hard and fast when your time was up!
 
#99
lol ... Dude ... How did you get them to give HJs through the stage windows at PeepLand???
Was easiest if you went at off hours when the girls weren't making all that much due to lack of customers. If you were the only guy at the stage, and had been for some time, it was more likely.

Any time I was in midtown, back then, I used to climb those stairs with the lighted phrases in the toe-kicks ... up to the second floor with its disorienting cherckerboard tile. The girls would be perched above their booths, catcalling for their audience.
That would be the 7th ave one, not the 42nd. Was this before or after they shut down the 42nd one? (where the stages where in the basement)

But once in the booth ... the windows were chest-high, and the girls made you put both hands through.
They never made me put both hands in... ?!?

I had thought about standing on something to ... make things more fun for me, as they were already having fun with my digital skills, but that little window divider used to come down pretty hard and fast when your time was up!
They'd reach down. and hold the window with their free hand. They wouldn't hold it from closing, but would slow it enough to allow time to get their working arm free before it came down.

"Men's room. For pissing only."
Remember that? Was happy they transported it to the 7th ave location after 42nd shut down.
 
wow, I've only met 1 provider who I've actually thought about having bbfs with, and that probably because we became really good friends. Play safe guys!
I always play safe...Interestingly, the OP slipped off his cover, in his story. While I cannot compare that to what happened to me, how can you expect, or protect, from a provider that is just giving you hand action, and seems adverse to actual BJ, no BBBJ, nor CBJ, then surprisingly slips it in without cover, without warning? I was "ambushed," although I use that term lightly.....I could have pushed her off, but in the heat of the stupid moment, the little MK told the big MK, the damage was done....

In reality, stopping it ASAP, would have been safer, but I still would have had the extreme paranoia until checked by a Medical pro, albeit with a lot less chance of a problem.
 
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