Like I care what you think or a whore thinks.

[IRVINGTON29]

You do not believe anything is immoral about this industry

Oh yea you also believe that all drugs should be legal.

Yet you have a strong grasp of right and wrong?

I do not want to call you "cuckoo", because I am hoping for a good argument on why you think this business is NOT immoral and why "all drugs" should be legal.

Maybe I am being "punked" , you got me!

 

[scoochamenz1]

it's the immorality of the drugs and the hobby that make them so much fun. lol.

 

[fairemily]

You do not believe anything is immoral about this industry

Oh yea you also believe that all drugs should be legal.

Yet you have a strong grasp of right and wrong?

I do not want to call you "cuckoo", because I am hoping for a good argument on why you think this business is NOT immoral and why "all drugs" should be legal.

Maybe I am being "punked" , you got me!

If you feel there is anything immoral about being either on the supply or demand end of this industry then you shouldn't be a hobbyist or posting on a PMB, you shouldn't even be registered on this site. I don't need to explain my reasons why I feel there isn't anything immoral about this industry as long as it involves consenting adults. If you feel seeing a sex worker is immoral and you do it then you are the one who has a problem.

The drug laws in this country need a complete overhaul, they were made by men who were voted in before women were even allowed to vote. They are dated and have caused more misery than good for the people of this country.

 

[scoochamenz1]

actually, a lot of the drug laws were updated during ronnie rayguns stint in office. he along with a bunch of asshole guv's (rockefeller laws, ever hear the term?) thought that putting users and low level dealers in jail would stem the crack problem. they were wrong on both counts (as usual) and all that happened was a bunch of kids selling dime bags of crack on the street were sent to jail for 20 years, while the rich white folks using powder cocaine kinda got a free ride. the laws do suck, they should be changed, but don't hold your breath. also, just because you or i don't think something is wrong or immoral is no reason to tell people they shouldn't be here or posting. if the mods wanted him off, he'd be gone.

 

[JXM]

Now I feel better about myself. I always thought that lying, cheating, and diverting time and resources away from the people that I've pledged my loyalty to before god made me a hypocritical asshole. I guess I had it all wrong.

Guess all of those wives out there have it all wrong too. They should be more understanding of our sexual proclivities and our use of resources to procure them. Not to mention our employers, the police, friends, etc...

I'd be the first to agree that whatever two consenting adults do is fine, as long as these adults haven't pledged to others that they won't do those things. And since the vast majority of demand for sex workers comes from married guys, it is impossible to ignore the reality of the jackpots it puts most people in, financially, socially, mentally, emotionally.

We all tell ourselves whatever we need to in order to sleep well at night, but that doesn't make it right.

I'm not placing blame on anyone, but to pretend that this is a simple transaction devoid of any impropriety is foolish imho.

 

[franca]

also, just because you or i don't think something is wrong or immoral is no reason to tell people they shouldn't be here or posting. if the mods wanted him off, he'd be gone.

Yeah, but it is perfectly reasonable to point out his hypocrisy. That was a totally ridiculous post he made--telling a working girl she is immoral, when he does the same shit.

 

[justlooking]

We've gone through this before, from both sides.

It's ridiculous for a john to tell a sex worker she's immoral for being a sex worker.

But it's equally ridiculous for a sex worker to tell a john he's being immoral for being a john.

OTOH, it's also ridiculous to deny that this whole enterprise is very precarious, morally.

 

[justlooking]

And I don't think it's ridiculous at all to tell someone calling for strong "animal rights" laws that similar arguments are made to support the laws against commercial sex. That seems like a completely sensible argument to me.

While I obviously don't see things this way, my wife would be flabbergasted to find out that Emily thinks abuse of animals is more serious than my sexual and economic betrayal of her.

 

[JXM]

Yeah, but it is perfectly reasonable to point out his hypocrisy. That was a totally ridiculous post he made--telling a working girl she is immoral, when he does the same shit.

How is that ridiculous? I'm merely disagreeing with the premise that sex work when it involves people that are married is morally ok. Since I'm a married guy that hires women for sex, I should know. I'm in a lot better position to know the depth and extent of the lies and deceipt I'm guilty of than any of you providers are. And I imagine that I'm fairly typical of the guy that has figured out some bullshit way to justify his own actions, even though they are wrong.

All I'm trying to do is say that everyone has their own opinion of what it right and wrong. But that is all it is. An opinion. When enough people agree on rights and wrongs you end up with societal norms, but they still don't result in absolute truths.

If a married guy isn't wrong for seeing a sex worker, then he also isn't wrong about lying about it, and he also isn't wrong about misappropriating marital assets to pay for it, etc. A slippery slope in my opinion. Much more accurate to say that it is wrong, and that humans are imperfect beings that commit wrongs all of the time.

Hopefully we do more right than wrong and we end up on the good side of the ledger when it is our time to account, whenever and however that comes to be.

 

[JXM]

And I don't think it's ridiculous at all to tell someone calling for strong "animal rights" laws that similar arguments are made to support the laws against commercial sex. That seems like a completely sensible argument to me.

While I obviously don't see things this way, my wife would be flabbergasted to find out that Emily thinks abuse of animals is more serious than my sexual and economic betrayal of her.

At least someone understands what I'm talking about.

 

[fairemily]

Now I feel better about myself. I always thought that lying, cheating, and diverting time and resources away from the people that I've pledged my loyalty to before god made me a hypocritical asshole. I guess I had it all wrong.

Guess all of those wives out there have it all wrong too. They should be more understanding of our sexual proclivities and our use of resources to procure them. Not to mention our employers, the police, friends, etc...

I'd be the first to agree that whatever two consenting adults do is fine, as long as these adults haven't pledged to others that they won't do those things. And since the vast majority of demand for sex workers comes from married guys, it is impossible to ignore the reality of the jackpots it puts most people in, financially, socially, mentally, emotionally.

We all tell ourselves whatever we need to in order to sleep well at night, but that doesn't make it right.

I'm not placing blame on anyone, but to pretend that this is a simple transaction devoid of any impropriety is foolish imho.

I know my beliefs are somewhat radical and not widely accepted but I just don't follow what others tell me is immoral. I believe all men want and need variety (even my father) and there are alot of conniving civilian women out there that find it amusing to steer men away from thier committed relationships where professional sex workers have no expectations and just fulfill the immediate needs and not the status. I don't even believe women who claim they just want a casual encounter, it is all about conquering disguised as casual just to reel men in. I have had boyfriends who prided themselves that they would never pay for it and sure enough they strayed as all men do and found a civilan women who wanted and eventually did take my place. If anything wives should be grateful of sex workers because we keep the vultures away. I think it is unrealistic for women to believe that they are the last stop on the train, most men will cheat (I hate that word) at least once. On the subject of infidelity there are far more immoral acts then visiting a sex working from time to time. I don't think I am foolish, just practical and realistic.

 

[justlooking]

Emily, I can see how you can think what you just said. I can even agree with you.

I just can't see how you could think that and STILL call for laws imposing your moral views regarding animals on others.

 

[fairemily]

Emily, I can see how you can think what you just said. I can even agree with you.

I just can't see how you could think that and STILL call for laws imposing your moral views regarding animals on others.

My views on animal rights has nothing to do with being immoral, it's our duty as human beings to know it is wrong to abuse a lesser and defenseless being. One is violent and cruel act the other is a possible sensitive subject but the outcomes are dramatically different. One usually produces a happy guy the other nothing but misery and sorrow, I just can't see how these two subjects are connected at all, we might as well compare rape and shoplifting as being the same, IMHO.

 

[franca]

I'm merely disagreeing with the premise that sex work when it involves people that are married is morally ok.

Exactly. You aren't trying to tell us we're immoral when you're doing the same shit. That was Irvington.

 

[JXM]

Exactly. You aren't trying to tell us we're immoral when you're doing the same shit. That was Irvington.

Sorry. Thought you were referring to my comments.

 

[JXM]

My views on animal rights has nothing to do with being immoral, it's our duty as human beings to know it is wrong to abuse a lesser and defenseless being.

Are you a vegan?

 

[justlooking]

Wouldn't help. Plants are even more defenseless than animals.

 

[fairemily]

Are you a vegan?

I have actually been waiting for days for you to ask this, what took you so long?

I am not and I hate rats and mice also but I did have a ferret and chinchilla. To go down the "are you a vegan" road we have to ask ourselves the morality of everything we put in our body. If we eat food cooked with Palm oil are we are aiding in the destruction of the animals who are becoming extinct in the Indonisian rain forests. If we eat white sugar we are aiding in the slavery of poor Haitian children in D.R. sugar plantations. I am not perfect, never claimed I was and I don't care if I am perceived by you as being hypocrite. I feel justified in my views regarding domestic animals, I had written it is a calling and not for everyone but I am not a fanatic, the right and wrong are very clear to me. You are taking this to another level that I will not go down just to prove a very weak point regarding the similarity between animal abuse and infidelity.

 

[franca]

I admit, I do feel a little guilty when I eat fois gras.

 

[JXM]

I have actually been waiting for days for you to ask this, what took you so long?

I am not and I hate rats and mice also but I did have a ferret and chinchilla. To go down the "are you a vegan" road we have to ask ourselves the morality of everything we put in our body. If we eat food cooked with Palm oil are we are aiding in the destruction of the animals who are becoming extinct in the Indonisian rain forests. If we eat white sugar we are aiding in the slavery of poor Haitian children in D.R. sugar plantations. I am not perfect, never claimed I was and I don't care if I am perceived by you as being hypocrite. I feel justified in my views regarding domestic animals, I had written it is a calling and not for everyone but I am not a fanatic, the right and wrong are very clear to me. You are taking this to another level that I will not go down just to prove a very weak point regarding the similarity between animal abuse and infidelity.

This is exactly the problem as to why you and I can't have a discussion about anything.

You think I'm trying to compare animal abuse to infidelity or sexual morality. I'm not. One clearly has nothing to do with the other. What I'm trying (unsuccessfully) to point out is that when you try and take the moral high ground, someone else will take it with you, because there are no absolutes.

We all come from different places, we have different views of right and wrong, and when you project your own views of right and wrong as absolute fact in a public forum, you should have every expectation that someone is going to take issue.

There is a distinct difference between these two statements:

A) I believe that it is abusive to dogs to leave them outside and never let them in the house because...
B) You are an asshole if you leave your dogs outside...

A refers to an opinion. B projects your morality on someone else's actions, which you really have no right to do UNLESS you don't mind someone doing it to you. Which, given your views regarding "puritanical religious freaks", you clearly DO mind.

(or, said differently, don't dish it if you can't take it?)