Politics and prostitution

Slinky Bender

The All Powerful Moderator
#41
Perhaps I'm way off base on this, but I would think that the group of guys who have $5,000 to $10,000 ( to ??? ) a year disposable cash to spend on any "hobby" would more likely be conservatives than liberals ( if not in what they think of themselves as, in practice when it came to looking out for their own ( financial ) best interests ). As such, I would also think that the group of PMB posters would likely follow that same conservative bent.
 
#42
Originally posted by justlooking
Although I've got to say, to be perfectly honest, if you had told me when I was in, say, my late 20s, that a time would come when I would frequent strip clubs and prostitutes, I'd have looked at you like you were from Mars.

Unbelievably large DITTO there.
 
#43
SB --

I agree with the "conservative when it comes to me" assessment. I mean, I like tax cuts as much as the next guy. However, younger people tend to be more highly educated today as compared to, e.g., younger people in the 60 or 70's. Thus, they have more exposure to liberal values and ideas, at least some of which rubs-off on them. So I don't necessarily agree that a young, upwardly-mobile, professional - especially in the Northeast - is more likely to be conservative than liberal (at least, insofar as you can apply such labels to whoring).

--WSB
 

Slinky Bender

The All Powerful Moderator
#44
Originally posted by wsb
(at least, insofar as you can apply such labels to whoring).
Maybe I haven't been paying enough atention to this thread. What I meant was that it doesn't surprise me that "such guys", even if they would be "liberal" wrt whoring, might be likely constervatives wrt everything else ( especially finances ).
 
#45
No, I think you have the correct understanding. I was interrupted by work in the middle of my post and when I resumed writing I wrote something different than I intended. What I really meant to write was: "insofar as you can apply such labels to [young, professional, etc.] whoreboard contributors". In short, what I am positing is:

(i) conservative wrt issues that could potentiall effect their personal wealth/disposable income,

(ii) liberal-leaning outward personna, especially wrt sex, social issues, etc.
 
#46
Because I'm a tiresome guy, I'll repeat my point that nothing I see on the boards suggests to me that even a significant minority, much less a majority, of whoreboard posters have "liberal-leaning outward personna, especially wrt sex, social issues, etc." (And that is, if anything, even more applicable to the supply-side posters than to the consumer side.)
 
Last edited:
#47
Looks like Safire is a UG reader. billys???

November 14, 2002
You Are a Suspect
By WILLIAM SAFIRE


WASHINGTON — If the Homeland Security Act is not amended before passage, here is what will happen to you:

Every purchase you make with a credit card, every magazine subscription you buy and medical prescription you fill, every Web site you visit and ****** you send or receive, every academic grade you receive, every bank deposit you make, every trip you book and every event you attend — all these transactions and communications will go into what the Defense Department describes as "a virtual, centralized grand database."

To this computerized dossier on your private life from commercial sources, add every piece of information that government has about you — passport application, driver's license and bridge toll records, judicial and divorce records, complaints from nosy neighbors to the F.B.I., your lifetime paper trail plus the latest hidden camera surveillance — and you have the supersnoop's dream: a "Total Information Awareness" about every U.S. citizen.

This is not some far-out Orwellian scenario. It is what will happen to your personal freedom in the next few weeks if John Poindexter gets the unprecedented power he seeks.

Remember Poindexter? Brilliant man, first in his class at the Naval Academy, later earned a doctorate in physics, rose to national security adviser under President Ronald Reagan. He had this brilliant idea of secretly selling missiles to Iran to pay ransom for hostages, and with the illicit proceeds to illegally support contras in Nicaragua.

A jury convicted Poindexter in 1990 on five felony counts of misleading Congress and making false statements, but an appeals court overturned the verdict because Congress had given him immunity for his testimony. He famously asserted, "The buck stops here," arguing that the White House staff, and not the president, was responsible for fateful decisions that might prove embarrassing.

This ring-knocking master of deceit is back again with a plan even more scandalous than Iran-contra. He heads the "Information Awareness Office" in the otherwise excellent Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, which spawned the Internet and stealth aircraft technology. Poindexter is now realizing his 20-year dream: getting the "data-mining" power to snoop on every public and private act of every American.

Even the hastily passed U.S.A. Patriot Act, which widened the scope of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and weakened 15 privacy laws, raised requirements for the government to report secret eavesdropping to Congress and the courts. But Poindexter's assault on individual privacy rides roughshod over such oversight.

He is determined to break down the wall between commercial snooping and secret government intrusion. The disgraced admiral dismisses such necessary differentiation as bureaucratic "stovepiping." And he has been given a $200 million budget to create computer dossiers on 300 million Americans.

When George W. Bush was running for president, he stood foursquare in defense of each person's medical, financial and communications privacy. But Poindexter, whose contempt for the restraints of oversight drew the Reagan administration into its most serious blunder, is still operating on the presumption that on such a sweeping theft of privacy rights, the buck ends with him and not with the president.

This time, however, he has been seizing power in the open. In the past week John Markoff of The Times, followed by Robert O'Harrow of The Washington Post, have revealed the extent of Poindexter's operation, but editorialists have not grasped its undermining of the Freedom of Information Act.

Political awareness can overcome "Total Information Awareness," the combined force of commercial and government snooping. In a similar overreach, Attorney General Ashcroft tried his Terrorism Information and Prevention System (TIPS), but public outrage at the use of gossips and postal workers as snoops caused the House to shoot it down. The Senate should now do the same to this other exploitation of fear.

The Latin motto over Poindexter"s new Pentagon office reads "Scientia Est Potentia" — "knowledge is power." Exactly: the government's infinite knowledge about you is its power over you. "We're just as concerned as the next person with protecting privacy," this brilliant mind blandly assured The Post. A jury found he spoke falsely before.
 
#48
Originally posted by justlooking
Because I'm a tiresome guy, I'll repeat my point that nothing I see on the boards suggests to me that even a significant minority, much less a majority, have "liberal-leaning outward personna, especially wrt sex, social issues, etc." (And that is, if anything, even more applicablet to the supply-side posters than to the consumer side.)
Well, we have already agreed that the overwhelming majority could be characterized culturally as "middle class". My post was only meant to apply to that elusive minority of younger professionals who may have only discovered whoring in the last few years or even less. Perhaps they lurk or were decimated when the dot com bubble burst.

In any event, are you telling me that if you had Interenet access when you were 27, you wouldn't have even considered looking up "hookers", "prostitutes", "working girls", etc., along with copious amounts of porn? My point is that I find it hard to believe that, irrespective of how fiscally conservative they may be or how much they may be getting at home, some are not going to be intrigued by what they read and continue to visit.
 
Last edited:
#49
Originally posted by wsb
In any event, are you telling me that if you had Interenet access when you were 27, you wouldn't have even considered looking up "hookers", "prostitutes", "working girls", etc., along with copious amounts of porn?
I don't really expect you to believe this, but I can ABSOLUTELY tell you that.
 

pswope

One out of three
#52
If the 'net existed in the 70's, sans message boards, I'm sure many of us would have found our way there. Because it's so fraught with the potential for social derision,no one would have dared discussing it with friends.

Even today,how many of us raise discussions about commercial sex w/ our friends outside the boards. Not matter how liberal we perceive they may be.



(ps-Can anyone dispute that even a casual perusal of a PMB by an outsider would validate the stereotype that the vast majority of commercial sex participants are..........[ahem] abnormal )*

Exhibit1 (of 10,000): http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=141855#post141855
 
Last edited:
#53
Originally posted by pswope
Even today,how many of us raise discussions about commercial sex w/ our friends outside the boards. Not matter how liberal we perceive they may be.
*** asked this exact question a few weeks ago and the results said roughly 75% do not discuss the hobby with friends.

As for "social derision", i'm thinking it would mainly come from hypocrits. When you add up all the men who engage in the hobby, the men who don't engage in it solely because they don't really have access to it (every place isn't NYC), and the men who don't engage in it solely out of fear of getting caught (by wives or LE), i don't think that leaves too many men who don't do it because "it's wrong".

As for me, i guess i'm an exception. I don't have a single friend, whether they be in their 20's or 50's, who doesn't know about my hobbying. They all get a kick out of my stories. Hell, even my parents know. You gotta understand though, hobbying (and sex in general) isn't a really big deal for Greeks. There's hardcore porn on regular tv late at night over there. After marriage, hobbying is of course looked down upon but still not to the point it is over here (again, by all the hypocrits over here with their family values BS). Prostitution is legal in Greece and dads even take their young sons on occasion. It's great. We can be having dinner at a restaurant and a pretty girl can pass by and i'll blurt out in Greek "i fucked a ho that looked just like her last week", and everyone will laugh. I could never imagine having to jump through all the hoops some of you guys do to enjoy this hobby. Sucks for you. ;)
 
Last edited:
#54
Stech, my wifes Greek,(in more ways than one hee hee), And if I said that to a woman, I'd have my nuts wrapped in the grape leaves. Shes 1st generation too, but I guess she could be americanised.
 
Last edited:
#55
Mitch, where in Greece is your wife from? She can probably tell you what it means if the house has a red light bulb in the front (hint hint). Just be careful when bringing up the question.

PS - how'd you meet?
 

justme

homo economicus
#56
Thoughts:

1. JL's analysis on libertarian leanings as well as conservative sexual beliefs of pmb posters is too great for words.

2. Young, educated people like myself tend to be libertarian rather than liberal. I think most of my peers have no appreciation for the social ills that motivated the enacting of so much liberal policy from the early thirties to the late seventies. They also have little appreciation for how easy it would be to slip back into those problems. In short, they are ignorant idiots. If I had to point to the single greatest intellectual influence on my generation, it'd have to be Ayn Rand (I've had more than one conversation with people that I consider intelligent that told me they preferred Rand to Kant because Kant didn't make any sense).

3. There is a strain of new feminism that is very different from what you saw in the 70's. In fact, it resents old school femism and its ideas that women need to be protected. I think it's part of this naivete in regards to past opression. Anyway, among women my age, there is less of a belief that prostituion is inherently opressive to women, nor that it promotes traditional neanderthal gender roles. Many women my age that I have talked to believe that prostitution can be a means of capturing economic power. But then, even in the days of street ho's, the order of power was always pimp, ho, trick. And of course these women are only engaging in theoretical dialog. For obvious reasons, I have never confessed my own applied knowledge.

4. I think if I had to summarize the attitudes of my liberal friends about prostitution, it would be something along the lines of:

Pathetic, dirty, and sad but not really anything that shouldn't be tolerated.
 
#57
Originally posted by justme
And of course these women are only engaging in theoretical dialog.
Although obviously there is a not-insignifcant subset of working prostitutes who believe the same thing. (I find them hopelessly naive,* but for some reason they don't seem to care too much what I think.)

Evegirl (obviously) was one who posted here.
____________________________________________
* Albeit wildly attractive sexually.
 
#58
This Is Gonna Piss Off Some People I Like

Thinking it over, it's even clearer why you'd see such a disporportionate representation of libertarians on whoreboards.

Whoring is a completely selfish activity. It's dangerous not only to yourself but to others, including the supply-side participant in the transaction and anyone you might care about personally who could get hurt, one way or another, by your participation. Yet, we do it anyway.

So what's the ultimate example of the politics of selfishness?
 
Top