Politics and prostitution

[Ozzy]

Originally posted by wsb
I originally posted this to the wrong thread, so I am cross posting it here.

I often avoid debating politics on boards like this, as it can be such a frustrating exercise. However, in reading some of the contributions to the various threads, I couldn’t help but notice the correlation to some of my earlier observations of similar discussions on other prostitution related boards. Specifically, I have observed that
despite the reasonable assumption that those that condone prostitution would more likely have liberal tendencies, the vast majority seem fall somewhere between moderate and hard-line conservative. Indeed, I find it humorous that anyone engaged in prostitution, be they john or hooker, would support an administration that involves a religious zealot like John Ashcroft......

I shortened your post but I agree with what your saying (I usually did when I wasn't arguing with you)... I made some posts about the whole "religion" issue. But so far they seem to have put a lot of their old religious agenda's on the back burner. Maybe now that they control everything they'll take dust off those agenda's.. or maybe they'll learn that they leaned a little in the right direction and it paid off, and they'll continue with their mild ways.

Besides.. I only see one government here.... If I can't trust that one... what other one can I trust?

 

[pswope]

Ok so I'm not Tony Scalia

Originally posted by justlooking
If there's a good basis for a general constitutional right to privacy and personal decisions among strict constructionists, I'd like to know what it is.

I mean, I'm a liberal and I have a hard time reconciling Roe with the United States Constitution.

There is sufficient anecdotal evidence to suggest that the FFathers understood that the document could not fully contemplate our country 200 years later. Of course, it is highly problematic and of course subjective for the judiciary to try to devine what the FFathers intended wrt issues that couldn't have been contmeplated at that time.



PJ
While Ashcroft is not an inner circle Bushie,imo, he will clearly be rolled out to pander to the right when it is politically expedient to do so. The Republicans are trying to put a lock on the centrist former democrats while not sacrificing the right. Thus they will target issues that won't alienate the center while stroking the Ralph Reed set.

 

[pjorourke]

Re: Ok so I'm not Tony Scalia

Originally posted by pswope
PJ
While Ashcroft is not an inner circle Bushie,imo, he will clearly be rolled out to pander to the right when it is politically expedient to do so. The Republicans are trying to put a lock on the centrist former democrats while not sacrificing the right. Thus they will target issues that won't alienate the center while stroking the Ralph Reed set.

Agreed psw, and for $100 guess what the centrist former democrats and the Ralph Reed set agree is a vald target for law enforcement (beside terrorism)? Hint: A guy names slinky runs a discussion board about it.

However, that doesn't change my original point that no government (R or D, left or right) is going to be tolerant of our hobby.

 

[pswope]

pj

tolerant is a problematic word. No gov't will tacitly accept or approve of commercial sex. However, that doesn't preclude gov't that implicitly accepts it by not allocating resources to attack the ostensibly benign forms of commercial sex.

 

[Reel Deal]

Re: Re: Ok so I'm not Tony Scalia

Originally posted by pjorourke


Agreed psw, and for $100 guess what the centrist former democrats and the Ralph Reed set agree is a vald target for law enforcement (beside terrorism)? Hint: A guy names slinky runs a discussion board about it.

However, that doesn't change my original point that no government (R or D, left or right) is going to be tolerant of our hobby.

Well said.

I have no doubt that the Left-those Champions of civil liberties- will sacrifice this hobby as a red herring to protect abortion, and the right-those eeeeeevil conservatives-will sacrifice this hobby as a pander to the Ralph Reeders.

I've posted it dozens of times: 99% of the rest of the world view us as degenerate perverts. Just accept it.

 

[justlooking]

Re: Re: Ok so I'm not Tony Scalia

Originally posted by pjorourke
Agreed psw, and for $100 guess what the centrist former democrats and the Ralph Reed set agree is a vald target for law enforcement (beside terrorism)? Hint: A guy names slinky runs a discussion board about it.

DITTO DITTO DITTO

 

[justlooking]

Reel Deel, it isn't that the left will sacrifice prostitution. It's that the left doesn't like prostitution. Even that guy writing (about TBD) in Nerve didn't like prostitution. Let's face it, except for some of us, nobody likes prostitution.

 

[John Blackthorne]

I am not going to present any sophisticated argument here...

Because the bulk of the American people are NOT sophisticated. Nor are they ideologues. Nor can they be captured for long.

The Republicans have 2 years. Nothing has gone right for GWB and this election would have been dranmatically different but for the rise in "Americanism" following 9-11. We are in fact NOT winning the War on Terror, and we were ready to pick on a nation that may or may not have weapons of mass destruction rather that a nation that we KNOW does simply because we can win this one. GWB needs for something to go right in the next 2 years or these dreams of Republican domination will dissolve.

The economy had better improve or there had better be results from the conflicts (and there had best not be too many body bags).

As to the thesis presented by WSB, I am in agreement. These guys have already made greater infringements into our civil liberties than any administration in decades. The Patriot Act is scary in part because many of its provisions are NOT going to expire, they are permanent. (Q: why was this bill rushed through with so little public involvement?) Nor is any part of the act dedicated to terrorism, the provisions can be applied as desired. We need to hope that the FBI truly will be dedicated to the real menaces to our society and not acticities like the hobby.

However, any LE agency at all can reguest that Carnivore be installed on ANY ISP, the ISP cannot disclose that it is installed, and should your ***** records be requested, the ISP is not allowed to inform you of this. Great, eh??

JB

 

[justlooking]

Getting back to wsb's initial post, I don't think it's at all surprising that whoreboard posters tend more to the right to the left.

I think the reasons are more cultural than political.

Although they sometimes like to refer to themselves that way, it's not like the people who post on whoreboards tend to be on the cutting edge of human sexuality. Rather, in terms of their views of sex roles, sexual possibilities, etc., they tend to be very conservative and middle class. (See, e.g., the horror with which male-male sex is generally viewed, or the time-share discussion in the "Sugar Daddies" thread on the General Board, or I could go on and on forever, etc., etc., amen).

Just the kind of people you'd think would have the kind of politics you see.

And to the extent they're radical at all, of course they'd tend to be radical right rather than radical left, favoring individualism (to avoid divisiveness, I'm leaving out all the pejoratives I'd normally preface that with) over collectivism.

It all makes perfect sense to me.

 

[oddfellow4870]

Originally posted by justlooking
And to the extent they're radical at all, of course they'd tend to be radical right rather than radical left, favoring individualism (to avoid divisiveness, I'm leaving out all the pejoratives I'd normally preface that with) over collectivism.

It all makes perfect sense to me.

Makes sense here as well. One of my earliest alter egos was Howard Roarke (added the e to protect Rand).

 

[wsb]

Originally posted by justlooking
Getting back to wsb's initial post, I don't think it's at all surprising that whoreboard posters tend more to the right to the left.

I think the reasons are more cultural than political.

Excellent post JL. I reached the same conclusion, but still wonder why this is the case. When you take into account the social stigma of whoring, coupled with the economic implications, it would seem you should have just the opposite - a younger, progressive-thinking, upwardly mobile crowd. Perhaps denial ain't just a river in Egypt?

Regards,

WSB

 

[justlooking]

I don't see why a younger, progressive-thinking, upwardly mobile crowd would be inclined to buy sex. I think they'd tend to disapprove of that (among other reasons, as I see it -- and this is a tremendous problem for me -- prostitution is sort of Traditional Neanderthal Western Views Of Gender Roles On A Stick). I also think they'd have less need to.

 

[justlooking]

I mean, think of the younger guys you see at mainstream strip clubs. They may well be "upwardly mobile," but they sure aren't "progressive-thinking".

 

[wsb]

Originally posted by justlooking
I also think they'd have less need to.

Clearly, you've forgotten what it is like to be younger, progressive-thinking and upwardly mobile.

 

[wsb]

Originally posted by justlooking
I mean, think of the younger guys you see at mainstream strip clubs. They may well be "upwardly mobile," but they sure aren't "progressive-thinking".

Good point. Maybe they all live in Texas.

 

[justlooking]

Originally posted by wsb
Clearly, you've forgotten what it is like to be younger, progressive-thinking and upwardly mobile.

I thought it was different for everybody else.

If it wasn't, let me know immediately, so I can stop whoring.

 

[justlooking]

Although I've got to say, to be perfectly honest, if you had told me when I was in, say, my late 20s, that a time would come when I would frequent strip clubs and prostitutes, I'd have looked at you like you were from Mars.

 

[pswope]

Can you really say that pror to the advent of PMBs, that you had the same attitude towards commercial sex that you have now? My guess is that it was ,as you imply,decidedly more negative.
My guess is that most progressive thinking people give little thought or concern to folks in the commercial sex sphere and have no real understanding about it.
Thus, except for the general libertine notions, it evokes little popular sympathy.

 

[wsb]

Originally posted by justlooking
Although I've got to say, to be perfectly honest, if you had told me when I was in, say, my late 20s, that a time would come when I would frequent strip clubs and prostitutes, I'd have looked at you like you were from Mars.

I suppose I would have done the same, but if you delete the word "frequent" and substitute "experiment with", I would have probably agreed with that statement. I've always found sex workers fascinating.

 

[wsb]

Originally posted by pswope

Thus, except for the general libertine notions, it evokes little popular sympathy.

I agree, however, we are now discussing this from the perspective of young men in need of getting-off as frequently as possible.