Negotiating Fees
- Thread starter Slinky Bender
- Start date
I know people think I'm some kind of snob for repeatedly saying this, but if you're looking at a $300 independent as "high-priced", I don't think you're really in any position to make definitive comments on price/value relationships or to say that higher prices only get you looks but not service.
At $300, that's probably true. But that's because at that low a price, you have to make trade-offs. So the more you get in looks, the less you might get in service (there are obviously loads of exceptions to this at that rate: I'm not saying there aren't great $300 prostitutes out there). I'm here to tell you, though, that's its possible to get GREAT looks and GREAT service -- but you've got to go higher, generally, than $300.
At $300, that's probably true. But that's because at that low a price, you have to make trade-offs. So the more you get in looks, the less you might get in service (there are obviously loads of exceptions to this at that rate: I'm not saying there aren't great $300 prostitutes out there). I'm here to tell you, though, that's its possible to get GREAT looks and GREAT service -- but you've got to go higher, generally, than $300.
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Clubber
We are an agency, 100% of the clients pay the same price. We collect at the end, so the girl doesnt know in advance if she's getting an extra tip. So theres no way to be influenced, as you suggest, to think a client is nicer than he really is because he is generous.
My post is my experience and that of our staff. In general, the clients who are the most demanding, who you work the hardest to please, who want extra this or that, who go over time, have toilet paper stuck to their behind, or whatever it is that makes them your not so favorite, are generally the ones who dont leave an extra dollar. The clients who are polite, clean, respectful, and appreciative, who we are grateful to have back under any circumstance, will usually also leave a nice tip. This is the reality.
You are comparing service vs. price at different agencies with different fees, Im comparing clients at the same place, paying the same fee, receiving roughly the same service. I make no argument for paying more to get better service, a provider should attempt to deliver proper service for whatever fee she charges. Im sure more than a few of the high priced girls have overestimated the worth of their service.
We are an agency, 100% of the clients pay the same price. We collect at the end, so the girl doesnt know in advance if she's getting an extra tip. So theres no way to be influenced, as you suggest, to think a client is nicer than he really is because he is generous.
My post is my experience and that of our staff. In general, the clients who are the most demanding, who you work the hardest to please, who want extra this or that, who go over time, have toilet paper stuck to their behind, or whatever it is that makes them your not so favorite, are generally the ones who dont leave an extra dollar. The clients who are polite, clean, respectful, and appreciative, who we are grateful to have back under any circumstance, will usually also leave a nice tip. This is the reality.
You are comparing service vs. price at different agencies with different fees, Im comparing clients at the same place, paying the same fee, receiving roughly the same service. I make no argument for paying more to get better service, a provider should attempt to deliver proper service for whatever fee she charges. Im sure more than a few of the high priced girls have overestimated the worth of their service.
Sure kills the mood, like Space said.
Milkmaid, polite clients are the best and I would always go the xtra mile for them. Not for a tip really but because I want him to come back.
I get asked that lots in e male bout negotiating. I dont . My rates are my rates. They dont have to e male me back and I am always more than happy to guide someone to another girl that has low rates.
Milkmaid, polite clients are the best and I would always go the xtra mile for them. Not for a tip really but because I want him to come back.
I get asked that lots in e male bout negotiating. I dont . My rates are my rates. They dont have to e male me back and I am always more than happy to guide someone to another girl that has low rates.
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JustLooking
I'm not sure where in my post you read that I thought a $300 indie is "high priced." I've reread the post and I don't see that anywhere in it. What I did say was that negotiating the price didn't, in my experience, make a difference in the service.
But while we're at it, I'd be interested to know what your "high priced" providers give you that a $200 or $300 provider doesn't. Other than very good looks, which I've found in lower priced providers as well, and very good service, which I've also found in lower priced providers, what do these "high priced" women do for you other than lighten your bank account?
Are you saying that a high price is a GUARANTEE of good service? You must know that is NOT the case (and no, I'm not talking about hundreds of dollars, I'm talking about thousands of dollars). Reading reviews certainly tells you that it's not the case.
In fact, I'm not sure just what it is that you're saying.
I'm not sure where in my post you read that I thought a $300 indie is "high priced." I've reread the post and I don't see that anywhere in it. What I did say was that negotiating the price didn't, in my experience, make a difference in the service.
But while we're at it, I'd be interested to know what your "high priced" providers give you that a $200 or $300 provider doesn't. Other than very good looks, which I've found in lower priced providers as well, and very good service, which I've also found in lower priced providers, what do these "high priced" women do for you other than lighten your bank account?
Are you saying that a high price is a GUARANTEE of good service? You must know that is NOT the case (and no, I'm not talking about hundreds of dollars, I'm talking about thousands of dollars). Reading reviews certainly tells you that it's not the case.
In fact, I'm not sure just what it is that you're saying.
Mood? What mood?
Candie and Milkmaid,
I don't understand. I'm not talking about negotiating the rates after arriving for a session, I'm talking about negotiating the rates ahead of time, when the session is booked. Are you saying that if I book a session with you two days ahead of time and try to negotiate a special rate, two days later when the session actually occurs, the "mood" will be killed? WHOSE MOOD?
And Candie, isn't there a difference between polite clients and negotiating clients? And what is "the extra mile?" It sounds to me like you're saying that different prices=different levels of service. I'd appreciate it if you would elaborate.
Candie and Milkmaid,
I don't understand. I'm not talking about negotiating the rates after arriving for a session, I'm talking about negotiating the rates ahead of time, when the session is booked. Are you saying that if I book a session with you two days ahead of time and try to negotiate a special rate, two days later when the session actually occurs, the "mood" will be killed? WHOSE MOOD?
And Candie, isn't there a difference between polite clients and negotiating clients? And what is "the extra mile?" It sounds to me like you're saying that different prices=different levels of service. I'd appreciate it if you would elaborate.
Something I think is being left out of this latest round of discussion is that a lot of this is very "venue dependant". In certain places, it's certainly expected that there will be some negotiations, in others, it's expected that there will be none example: a party I was at this week a young lady asked if I wanted to "go". I asked the price, and she indicated $150. When I told her that such a price was well over the norm in this place, she immediately without flinching indicated that she usuall got $50 & $80, so that would be ok. Obviously in this case, she fully expected some negotiations. Same goes for most AMPs and certain other establishments.
Of course, its' not just this business which is like that. I you go into a restaurant, no one expects you to start making "offers" off teh menu. But if you don't do it when buying a used car, you get laughed at ( behind your back, or maybe even to your face ).
Of course, its' not just this business which is like that. I you go into a restaurant, no one expects you to start making "offers" off teh menu. But if you don't do it when buying a used car, you get laughed at ( behind your back, or maybe even to your face ).
Hi Clubber,
I never run into problems once the booking is set for negotiating. Most clients in my experiences are polite and very respectful. The extra mile I was referring to with regard to my own style/experiences was, staying longer, try for 4 cups instead of 3.
Each indy though has her own flava!
I do have different items on my menu. My 4 hours and overnights offer much more.
I think what slinkybender says below is informative too.
I never run into problems once the booking is set for negotiating. Most clients in my experiences are polite and very respectful. The extra mile I was referring to with regard to my own style/experiences was, staying longer, try for 4 cups instead of 3.
Each indy though has her own flava!
I do have different items on my menu. My 4 hours and overnights offer much more.
I think what slinkybender says below is informative too.
Hey Candie,
Just for the record, I never have (and never would) try to negotiate a price once I've agreed on it. And that's always done beforehand. And I'm ALWAYS polite and respectful; it's got nothing to do with $, IMO that's just something a person is or isn't. As far as explicitly offering different or longer service for a higher price, hey I'm all for it. One of the main problems I've seen in "the biz" is people being surprised by what is or isn't actually offered in their session compared to their expectations. The more explicitly that's laid out ahead of time, the less chance of misunderstanding there will be.
Haven't ever met you, but sounds like you're an honest lady trying to do the best you can. Best of luck!
Just for the record, I never have (and never would) try to negotiate a price once I've agreed on it. And that's always done beforehand. And I'm ALWAYS polite and respectful; it's got nothing to do with $, IMO that's just something a person is or isn't. As far as explicitly offering different or longer service for a higher price, hey I'm all for it. One of the main problems I've seen in "the biz" is people being surprised by what is or isn't actually offered in their session compared to their expectations. The more explicitly that's laid out ahead of time, the less chance of misunderstanding there will be.
Haven't ever met you, but sounds like you're an honest lady trying to do the best you can. Best of luck!
Slinky
I was thinking of the restaurant menu analogy too. I wonder if the ballbusting patrons leave the worst tips and the polite people are more generous in that scenario too???
I agree about only negotiating in places where its customary, such as a place that offers minimal service, like an AMP thats supposedly just massage, but extras can be bought. I say go for it there. Also fine with a high end provider such as the post above, paying 7$ instead of 8$ or 9$. 7$ is alot of money for 1 person to earn in 1 evening regardless of how beautiful and what acrobatics she's capable of! But asking a provider, who you've never met, who is charging the going rate? No, sorry, I think thats overstepping. If you think you are the polite, wonderful client you believe yourself to be, do a session so she sees it too, then inquire about a lower rate, IMO, for subsequent visits. And certainly dont say to her its because she is overpriced, just say that $(your offer) is your maximum budget outlay per session.
I was thinking of the restaurant menu analogy too. I wonder if the ballbusting patrons leave the worst tips and the polite people are more generous in that scenario too???
I agree about only negotiating in places where its customary, such as a place that offers minimal service, like an AMP thats supposedly just massage, but extras can be bought. I say go for it there. Also fine with a high end provider such as the post above, paying 7$ instead of 8$ or 9$. 7$ is alot of money for 1 person to earn in 1 evening regardless of how beautiful and what acrobatics she's capable of! But asking a provider, who you've never met, who is charging the going rate? No, sorry, I think thats overstepping. If you think you are the polite, wonderful client you believe yourself to be, do a session so she sees it too, then inquire about a lower rate, IMO, for subsequent visits. And certainly dont say to her its because she is overpriced, just say that $(your offer) is your maximum budget outlay per session.
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MM
I respectfully disagree with your position, re negotiating commercial sex fees and believe doing so implies no disrespect for the lady or agency.
I think the better analogy is professional services,where prospective clients routinely negotiate fees with accountants and attorneys. Like working girls, acct's and lawyers are free to reject any proposed offer for whatever reason and understand that however unique they may regard their respective skills, there are alternatives available to the prospective client.
The manner and way one negotiates with anybody is a different issue and like any personalized service, it should be done in a respectful way,without denigrating the service provider.
While I routinely negotiate any fee over 250/hr (sex,law or accountancy), I only negotiate commercial sex during my initial discussions and never personalize the discussion. I simply supply the logic of my position,give the lady a chance to catch my vibe,and let her decide.
If she says no, I simply move on. No hard feelings.
Query to all indies and agency owners:
Given the potnetial to be your best client,wouldn't you try to woo BMM by offering him a discount to get him to try your service?
I respectfully disagree with your position, re negotiating commercial sex fees and believe doing so implies no disrespect for the lady or agency.
I think the better analogy is professional services,where prospective clients routinely negotiate fees with accountants and attorneys. Like working girls, acct's and lawyers are free to reject any proposed offer for whatever reason and understand that however unique they may regard their respective skills, there are alternatives available to the prospective client.
The manner and way one negotiates with anybody is a different issue and like any personalized service, it should be done in a respectful way,without denigrating the service provider.
While I routinely negotiate any fee over 250/hr (sex,law or accountancy), I only negotiate commercial sex during my initial discussions and never personalize the discussion. I simply supply the logic of my position,give the lady a chance to catch my vibe,and let her decide.
If she says no, I simply move on. No hard feelings.
Query to all indies and agency owners:
Given the potnetial to be your best client,wouldn't you try to woo BMM by offering him a discount to get him to try your service?
But milkmaid wasn't saying that negotiation implies disrespect.
She was saying that she had noticed a correlation between people's overall pleasantness as customers and whether or not they negotiate fees. She didn't say that one implies the other.
If that's her experience, it's her experience. It doesn't deny the possibility of the existence of you or BMM.
She was saying that she had noticed a correlation between people's overall pleasantness as customers and whether or not they negotiate fees. She didn't say that one implies the other.
If that's her experience, it's her experience. It doesn't deny the possibility of the existence of you or BMM.
We gave a gigantic discount/freebie when we first opened and it worked TOO well! So yes, a first time offer is a great idea, but then after that the regular fee is expected. Thats a different thing than negotiating a lower rate for all time...
PSW I didnt really disagree with you, I said I thought it was ok to negotiate with providers charging above the going rate, and I think $250/$3 is a fair going rate.
PSW I didnt really disagree with you, I said I thought it was ok to negotiate with providers charging above the going rate, and I think $250/$3 is a fair going rate.
(Also, I'd have to say that, at least in my segment of my field, clients who successfully negotiate down fees up front are rarer than you appear to be saying. There's a lot of voluntary write-offs when it's apparent that the work product doesn't justify the time, and a decent amount of post-bill negotiation when the client believes that more should have been written off. (This is analogous to milkmaid's suggestion that you not negotiate until after you've seen a prostitute.) But it isn't that easy for most clients to get most firms (in my segment of my field) to agree to accept less than their usual rates up front.)
Honestly I dont have alot of experience with negotiaiting because as stated I have an agency where everyone pays the same fee, unless they voluntarily pay extra in the form of a tip, which the girl keeps of course .
When I worked indy 6 years ago I charged $250, which was in the realm of what's normally spent, so I got very little argument over my rate. With the fellows I had monthly arrangements with, I let them choose their donation, and based on how much help they gave me, I calculated approx how frequently we could get together equitable to what they were paying.
I dont believe up front bargaining is a guarantee the client will be a bastard, I just dont think its nice if a provider has a set fee, and its about whats normally charged (her looks and service taken into account) to ask for a discount before hand. If she's higher than that, and you can get similar for less elsewhere, well, go for it.
And yes, JL is right, it is my experience that the clients who wish to pay the least do expect the most.
When I worked indy 6 years ago I charged $250, which was in the realm of what's normally spent, so I got very little argument over my rate. With the fellows I had monthly arrangements with, I let them choose their donation, and based on how much help they gave me, I calculated approx how frequently we could get together equitable to what they were paying.
I dont believe up front bargaining is a guarantee the client will be a bastard, I just dont think its nice if a provider has a set fee, and its about whats normally charged (her looks and service taken into account) to ask for a discount before hand. If she's higher than that, and you can get similar for less elsewhere, well, go for it.
And yes, JL is right, it is my experience that the clients who wish to pay the least do expect the most.
attys vs working girls
JL
My experience is that the latter live by their rates more than the former. I find that whenever I work out a "budget" for a corp matter based on a set of assumptions, that I invariably have to fight about the amount of time (over) billed to various tasks.
Any john,who has received a post bust write-off on commercial sex goes into my Hall of Fame next to BMM.
btw- it's spliiting hairs but I inferred disrepsect because of the language about overstepping and not being a polite john if you hondle.
JL
My experience is that the latter live by their rates more than the former. I find that whenever I work out a "budget" for a corp matter based on a set of assumptions, that I invariably have to fight about the amount of time (over) billed to various tasks.
Any john,who has received a post bust write-off on commercial sex goes into my Hall of Fame next to BMM.
btw- it's spliiting hairs but I inferred disrepsect because of the language about overstepping and not being a polite john if you hondle.