Memory Lane

[ViagraMan]

A few stories about what i remember of catherine. first, her place was close to the garden. i see from a previous post it was on 27th street. that sounds about where i remember. i remember a red awning on the outside of the building. i think she was on the second floor. i believe she was subletting it from a friend. for those who have been there, and for proof that i have also, the urinal in the bathroom was memorable. not what you would usually expect to see.

this is the story of how catherine got into this business. seems that she was divorced from her husband. i didn’t know she had a child, which was mentioned in a previous post above. i guess the funds were running low, because she was trying to find a job. she was pounding the pavement in the city looking for a job. i remember her saying that for the first time in her life she knew what hunger meant. she went into a bar, i think, and asked for a bartending job. the guy told her that he didn’t have one for her, but suggested to her how she could make a good buck. he offered to pay for play and they did somewhere upstairs from the bar. of course, i’m doing this from memory of a long time ago, so some of the exact details might be slightly off on this story, but by in large i think it’s pretty accurate. the rest was history, as she got into this business. the first time i visited her it was at this 27th street location. she told me she had a roommate by the name of diane, but for some reason i never saw her even though she was somewhere in the the apartment. i saw her a few times over the next few months. she was very down to earth and easy to talk to.

got to go for awhile. in my next post, i’ll tell you how i made her blush.

 

[rajah]

ViagraMan, you're taking me back again. It was the 4th floor I'm pretty sure, northeast corner of 27th and Broadway. There was a night club of sorts on the 2d floor. The elevator opened right into the loft. I'd forgotten the bathroom with the urinal. It was right beside the kitchen area. The one where you showered was further down the hall, the shower had a wooden rack floor like an old time locker room, the water was very hot, industrial strength, Catherine would turn it on for you so you didn't get scalded. There were two bedrooms, she usually used the one near the elevator for business and slept in the other, or her colleague used it for business. On beyond was a large room that was never used for much except to store stuff.

As noted in an earlier post, Diane was her colleague after the hiatus, it had been Nina before. The colleague was never in sight when Catherine was entertaining, and vice versa. All very discreet.

I never heard the story of how she got into the business but it is a good one. I think she had tried to break into the music business in some way, singing maybe or playing someting--I was a little vague about that.

Yes, she was down to earth and easy to talk to. A nice, nice person in every way. I'm looking forward to hearing how you made her blush.

 

[ViagraMan]

yes, you made me remember a few facts about catherine’s place on 27th street. there was a nightclub/dancehall on the second floor. it was the reason for the red awning at the entrance of the building. this would be the opportune time for greyfox to jump in and tell us the name of the nightclub/dancehall. i remember catherine saying that the noise at night could be a bit disturbing. and yes, i do now remember about the elevator opening up directly into the apartment. a bit unusual. by the time i first met catherine, diane was her co-worker. i don’t remember a nina. the next point in my timeline was that catherine sublet the apartment, or the person who she sublet it from came back. diane started working near the old new york convention center. i had never met diane on 27th street but i did finally meet her at the 57/58/59th street location. my memorable meeting with diane will be a later story.

to get back to catherine...she next surfaced in the houston street area. i called and made an appointment with her there. it was a bit unusaul for me, since it was the first time visiting a working girl in/or about this part of town. i can remember her giving me instructions on how to get there. she lived there. a big one room place if i remember with lots of window space. the bed was downstairs and a staircase leading to a small loft that overlooked the bigger room. by this time she was just starting to see someone again. he had called during our appointmentand from the conversation i surmised that he knew what line of business she was in.

during my first time with catherine, we got to talking about music and what kind of songs we liked. i told her i liked (among others) a female singer who i couldn’t quite remember her name. so i started singing a few of her songs. one went, as i told her - “you got to get up in the morning with a smile on your face and tell the world that you are in love and people are going to treat you better...” (might not be the exact words). also sang a song “you’ve got a friend...” had a great album called tapestry. for some reason, neither she nor i could quite remember her name, even though it was on the tip of both of our tongues. she told me that diane would know, so she excused herself for a minute to find out. when she came back, she siad that diane knew but couldn’t remember the name also. it was driving her crazy that she couldn’t recall the name. when my hour was up, i left and went home. by the time i got home or when i got home i remembered or looked at the album. it was carol king of course. i went to the phone and called her. when she answered i said but two words - “carol king”. i can’t swear to whether she figured it out by this time, which was about less than two hours past our appointment, but it lead to a good laugh.

 

[ViagraMan]

i saw catherine on and off for the next few months. during my last visit with her on 27th street, she had told me that she was going to be on radio with a few other working girls talking about the business and that i should listen in. a saturday night at midnight if i remember. one of those talk and phone shows that were popular back then. not only did i listen in, but i called up too. i was the only one who talked on the show from the experience of being a customer of this profession. while they were being blasted by some callers, i told of the kind of value that these girls provide for guys like me who couldn’t get it anyplace else. i also talked about the humanity of some of these girls, that some of them were real nice people. as they were going to end my call for the next call, i blurted out...”i just got one more thing to say” and they let me say it. i said “carol king”. There was only one other there and besides possibly diane who would know what that meant, since it was totally out of the context of the conversation. the next thing that was said was by the talk show host, who remarked “catherine - that made you turn red” (for she hadn’t known it was me on the line). i forever became known by her as the carol king guy. when i made my one and only and last appointment with her in the houston street location (did i mention that it was in the old piano factory building?) i told her it was the carol king guy. she seemed genuinely pleased that i called.

i never saw her again, but have wondered over the years how her life turned out.

 

[BigMadM]

vegas in the 70s

Unlike you guys, i didnt play too much in new york back when i first got married. But i did frequent vegas alot and remember the days. In between the stardust and circus circus there was a gas station and a mcdonalds. In the huge parking lots there was always an abundant of campers and winnebagos with providers hanging outside on beach chairs or just standing around and they would attack you whenever you crossed the lots to go in between casinos. It was like a prostitutes bazaar and you could walk from camper to camper and negociate prices. I always managed to walk the ladies back to my room because the thought of the campers just didnt do it for me. But at those prices, i could have seen 6 girls a night(penis willing) and still had money left over to eat.

 

[freewilly]

MemoryLane- a fe thoughts

What happened to Screw newspaper? In the mid-80's they went from having a few hundred SW ads over 10-15 pages , to 2-3 ad pages currently One could blame it on the AIDS crisis. But, the adult sections of the Village Voice and even New York magazine, have at least tripled during the last 10 years.

Does anybody still buy Screw?

Are there any provider's/houses who have advertised for at least 10 years? Theres a NY magazine classified ad, from a 1991 issue, for a"surrogate" ,who claims "3 years experience". The same ad in a recent issue , now touts "13 years" experience.

One wonders what happened to the various NYC providers who were 25-30 in the mid 1980'sand early 1990's. Did they make their $, and move on? How many stayed in the biz in some capacity?

To what extent are they happy or regret the SW choice they made?

 

[RY200S]

Anyone remember Ireena from the East side--29th & 30th Sts?--Very hot, tall, big busted Italian provider. Extraordinary service.

 

[rajah]

ViagraMan: Great memories. I think Catherine's other apartment was on Hudson, not Houston. It was a pleasant modern apartment, yes with a sleeping loft but it was a fairly sizeable one, with bathroom--more like an open elevated bedroom than the usual sleeping loft.

The radio talk show story is a good one. Catherine had another on-air experience. Remember the old David Susskind TV program, the first of the group discussion shows where he would have four or five authorities in a particular field and they would talk about a given topic? (And back then they didn't spend their time shouting each other down and constantly interrupting.) Before I met her, in the late 70s I guess, she and some other providers had been on the Susskind show and talked about the business. They didn't show their faces of course--shot them from an angle with faces in shadow. Catherine had a tape of the program but I never saw it.

She was a really nice person. Her ad in Screw just said "Catherine and Nina [or Diane]. A special closeness." And it was true. I hope her marriage worked out and that she is happy wherever she is.

 

[LukeWarm]

Response to freewilly

Yep, I remember the "good old days" when Screw was king. Goodness knows how much money I spent on issure after issue. But therein, I do believe, lies the rub. Nowadays Screw costs . . . what? $4.95 a pop? I ask the question because I honestly don't know. In contrast, The Village Voice and assorted other papers are free. Providers must surely suspect that more potential customers will pick up a free paper than one that costs a couple of dollars. Thus, I would venture to guess that the decline of advertizing in Screw has more to do with free enterprise than AIDS.

 

[rajah]

Getting back to Overture in the mid-eighties, does anybody remember a tall attractive English girl, a Kate Winslet look-alike with a glorious bosom and an accent just like the Beatles? A charmer, very skillful, very responsive.

 

[ViagraMan]

as i promised, on monday i did my walking tour of midtown. the boss is away from work and it was a beautiful day to get some exercise. isn’t capitalism great.

my first stop was on 54th street between 6th and 7th. greyfox was correct that the place no longer exists and has been replaced by 1325 Ave of the Americas. i recently had to stay at the rhiga hotel and i was oblivious to the fact of what was once across the street to where i was staying. perhaps greyfox could research what month/year the building was demolised. i also tried to find internet references of the club that was located next to the place. i could only find a reference to condon’s place on 52nd street. another nice job for greyfox to accomplish. by the way, i have read/reread his post that included the comments

“If you visit the site let me know, but I think that building only exists now in the hazy nostalgic memories of our youth.I felt a little melancholy walking on that block this sunny Sunday afternoon.”

Very well written!

My memory would place the actual townhouse at the location of the delivery garage along that stretch. i seem to remember that it was closer to 7th than to 6th. any other opinions?

i next walked over to 58th street, first heading east then making my way up north. i finally made it to 58th street but was still a bit west of the entrance road to the 59th street bridge. as i was walking the last couple of blocks, i was struck by all of the new construction work that was going on there and how the neighborhoods of new york continue to evolve, much like on 54th street. also, my heart was pounding very similarly to how i would get nervous as i walked to every first time provider back in those days. as soon as i crossed the street it was like i entered into a different world, a world of yesteryear. that block looked like it hadn’t change from over 20 years ago. i immediately recognized the correct building. the address flashed right back into my memory, similiar to when rajah posted the old telephone number. i peeked inside the hallway. it hasn’t changed a bit either. i kept wondering if the girls were still lurking inside there somewhere.

i then made my way down to 27th and broadway, approaching from the east. a bunch of wholesale stores for sports ware. really grungy looking. as i was taking notes trying to figure out which of the doors lead to catherine’s old place, i was being carefully watched by the people outside these stores, wondering what i was doing. the red awning is gone. but as soon as i checked out the doorway closest to broadway and saw that elevator, everthing fell into place.

i didn’t make it to catherine’s place in lower manhattan and you are right that i mispoke about houston. it was at hudson at the old piano factory. i plan for a visit next week. i also need to make a visit to the place that was the house between the 54th and 58th street locations. as i said, that would be harder to find, but i will make an attempt. but it was getting close to lunch time and the guys at the office would be waiting for me.

 

[ViagraMan]

rajah - i can’t help you much on what was going on with the place you call overture and i call lynn’s place (and i’m not even sure that was her name) in the mid-80’s. i dropped out of this scene sometime in the early 80’s. i believe my last visit was to the philly girl who worked with mick in the spring of 83 (or was it 82?). i didn’t get back into this until the early 90’s.

a few other questions for you. i would like to get the current phone number of the place. my suggestion for getting this done is as follows, understanding you desire not have have you email account given out. we both will secure a free email address on one of the free email servers like hotmail.com or mail.com. we will exchange that email address on this thread. you will email me the phone number. we can both then deactivate the email address, if we want. sounds ok? i see no way of compromising your identity this way. also, do you know the location of micks place. what street was it on? between what avenues? do you know the exact address? i would like to make a visit.

 

[ViagraMan]

finding myself in great need recently, i looked around for what my options were. in general i was a bit disappointed. my thing these days seem to lean toward an hour with a visiting provider. i had zeroed in on a person called mia lee, but she could not accomodate me for this past wednesday. so i started to focus on a relatively new provider to the area, julia lee. one on my last visits was with tanila lee (oops. i mean chang). now before you reach the conclusion that i have a thing for the oreintal mystique, let me say that after a visit with tanila, you will think she was raised in france. getting back to julia lee (her location can be found on tbd site), she turned out to be one of the best times of my life. although i left wondering whether the fresh prescription of little blue pills played a role, let me suggest that you run, not walk in getting an appointment with her. somebody this good doesn’t come around that often. and reasonable rates. she says she isn’t into high traffic and has a strict screening process, but it is well worth it. i plan on doing a genberal post and review of her, but i thought i would give you oldtimers a first leg up on her. good luck.

 

[ViagraMan]

rajah, greyfox, pswope, oldtimer2, we should write the definitive book. we could make a fortune. make back the money we spent on this and have a good bit left over for the retirement fund. We could call it “5 Guys Named John...and una mujeur named Mick!”
it could be made into a broadway play. later into a blockbuster movie. robert redford could play my part. actually more like danny devito.

 

[ViagraMan]

Mick, Catherine - we know you must be out there somewhere. maybe someone who is reading this knows how to get in touch with you. maybe you been following this thread yourself. i am offering you $5000 to come out of retirement and have dinner with rajah, pswope, greyfox, oldtimer2 and myself. this is not an offer to pay for prostitution, but only for your time and expenses. anything else that happens will only come to be by decisions made between conscenting adults.

 

[pswope]

You Can't Go Home Again


VM

It might be better to be left with our memories. For all we know,Mick might be the mother of 7,lving in Patchogue and chasing her little ones around Chuckie Cheese.

 

[ViagraMan]

the place you call overture but i call lynn’s place, although it was the best place in the city during that era, it wasn’t the only. i thought it might be of some nostalgic interest to detail a couple of the other spots.

the area around the old new york convention center (columbus circle) was one such place. there was an apartment building/condo/co-op, i don’t know which, that seemed to house plenty of providers. it always appeared that there was but one provider to each apartment, but due to the high concentration of girls there i always suspected that somehow they were related thru some higher organization. three of my most pleasurable hours was spent there.

one was with a provider that i would say came from the carrebbean islands or thereabouts. she had the most pleasureable set of boobs i ever put my hands on. and to my surprise, she was a bbfs provider. my first bbfs provider.

at first i was afraid, i was petrified
kept thinking i could never get out of here without contracting something
but then i spent so many nights thinking just how it must feel
so i was strong, and i learned how to carry on
i did survive

another was the infamous diane of catherine and diane fame. i can’t remember whether she was in the same building or just in the vicinity of columbus circle. she was not fat, but certainly not slim like catherine. a nice set of boobs. she started undressing my shirt (a first) and actually kissing me like she meant it (another first). i could have coined the term gfe at that moment, but i wasn’t quite ahead of my time. also, she was a bbfs provider. i remember her telling me she was a bookkeeper. is accountant the politically correct description now or is my memory fuzzy?

another was a black provider. another first for me. she had a big dog for protection (no, not that one). she gave new meaning to the word deep throat. another first for me. she also was a bbfs. also into giving me two cups of coffee, but i got a leg cramp before i could finish the drink. she relocated down to the high teens somewhere in the vicinity of fifth ave. i had called an ad in screw one day that sounded like her old ad and on the phone she told me that she could s... my d... down to my b... i knew it had to be her. reluctantly i did not make the date.

i never figured out what it was about the vicinity of columbus cinrcle and bbfs, but when someone puts together the unified theory of forces, it will probably become self-evident. i never did a repeat visit with any of these fantastic ladies. even in the pre-aids era, i was just too afraid to contract something.

at least one more notable place in my next note.

 

[rajah]

ViagraMan, these are great memories many of which I share. I have a personal matter that is going to occupy much of my time over the next few days but I will get back on the board and in particular will work out the email communication you suggest. I may also have a couple of recommendations for you.

As for Mick's last place that I knew of, it was in the first block west of Park Avenue South, on the uptown side of the street, but I can't tell you what street--maybe if I did a historic tour myself I would recognize it.

Golly, practically everybody back then gave BBFS as i recall. Including just about everybody we have talked about remembering. At Overture the base rate was $85 (which included DFK and BBBJTC, those were taken for granted by all providers in those days), and everybody would give BBFS for another $25. I think that was a rule of the house, if they didn't want to do that they didn't work there. But it was pretty universal everywhere.

 

[wishbone]

I remember when Overture was not yet Overture - before the East 50's and the incomparable Tina with her variously dyed hair and lemonade, before the Westside townhouse in the 50's, back to the East 60's, (back in the 70's!) and Mick was already there, and it was $65. They had a photo album to show you when you arrived to help with your selection, and one petite black-haired hottie bragged to me once about the pro soccer player she had the day before. She loved to stand over me while I lay on my back, and with her knees unbent she would lean over and deep throat - very hot! And then I would go to the Grand Central Oyster Bar for a Half doz oysters standing at the window...

 

[ViagraMan]

the place you call overture but i call lynn’s place, certainly had at least three locations that i frequented.
1. the first was on 54th street between 6th and 7th. it was in a townhouse on the south side of the street. the near exact location has been documented in earlier posts in this thread. they were there maybe in late 72, but for sure by early 73. certainly mick was not at this place in the beginning. whether she was there before the move (in her under 18 pre-provider days), i can’t remember.
2. from there they moved to a townhouse on the east side, perhaps just east of 2nd ave. can’t remember if it was in the 40’s or 50’s. if anyone knows the street address or the exact address, please post. it was on the south side of the street, around the middle of the block. i do not remember the year they moved. anyone knows? certainly mick worked in this place. this is the place where i thought mick became somehow part owner or supervisor (speculation on my part, but she seemed to be in charge when the lady i call lynn was not here). this is the place that sensa came back to work for an extremely short amount of time, perhaps less than a week.
3. from there they moved to the east 58th street location, just east of the entrance road to the 59th street bridge. i made a site visit there earlier this week. i have located the exact building. by this time it was the late 70’s or very early 80’s. i don’t know whether mick ever worked in this place. after mick established her own place, i never went back to the east 58th street location. i was taken up by the girl from philly as a friday after work regular. can anybody remember the name of the blond girl from philly? if i heard the name it would come back to me right away i believe. after a rather long period with her (particularly for me) in the dawn of the aids era, i dropped out of this scene for awhile.

i’m positive about this sequence and locations. can anybody document a location before the 54th street location. can anyone collobrate such a claim? i understand that this place is still in existence. rajah has promised to give me the current location soon. does anyone know sequence of locations between the 58th street location and the current location? does anybody know whether the current owner is the same owner from the 70’s?

i am not familiar with the lemonade girl you call tina. i did know of an early provider by the name of either tina or tia (fuzzy for me) who worked in the early days of the 54th street location. the first time i walked the dog. at what location did the lemonaid girl show up?

as for the photos, the first time i was aware that they existed was at the second documented location above. i can’t remember seeing them at the third location. in general, the modus operandi was for you to show up. you would sit in the living room for a short time with all the girls. you would after a suitable period be asked which one you wanted to see. they were extremely careful that you saw no other customer. you could make an appointment in advance with a particular girl. this tended to minimize the sitting around waiting for a selection period. i would always go right after work. the only time i can remember seeing another guy there is one day i went rather late. it was very busy and there was at least two other guys in the living room. this was at the 54th street location. if you had an appointment with someone, they were always into introducing you to the new girls.