Falling for a Provider

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oddfellow4870

#41
#41
Originally posted by gritsman
Seems like the whole point of commercial sex is paying to have sex and a good time, so you don't have to WORRY about it ...
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Not for everyone.

Why do people ride wild roller coasters?

Why do people go to movies which scare them to death?

Why do Johns indulge in all the feelings, real or not, that they can generate with a woman who probably does not love them?

Simple ---- different kind of thrill, different kind of ride.

In fact, some might argue that those who don't do this are cowards who can't control themselves. Why pay for superficial play? Why not become an actor in a play you'll never forget?
Of course I wouldn't say that.

To address a previous point. What's the end game? You move on and hope to god you can find another. You move on as soon as the thrill is gone. Which is a lot better than you can do when you're married with kids.

Embrace it, but only if you're strong enough to be as strong as she is. She's strong enough to indulge it in and walk away from it and collect. You be as strong and take it for all you can, then get out of it.
 
S

Space

#43
#43
Re: Re: Re: Re: Falling for a Provider

Originally posted by buddyyy


I agree and would add wife or husband to the list.

Therefore, holding aside the issue of what is or isn't love, to the extent that is true, now all we are talking about is price.

Which is to say that the relationship that a man might have with a provider is no different than any other he might have.
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I disagree, and here's why.

There is a difference between paying with money, and feeling affection, devotion and self-sacrifice. Affection, devotion and self-sacrifice are not exchangable for money, because no matter how hard one tried to love someone simply because they pay you to, it is not the same as love one feels without thought of repayment.

Love is not provided in exchange for goods, services or money. Love occurs because the person or object of your love deserves it. It's akin to admiration and desire. It's something felt by the person, not something the person provides you with.

Consider how often in life and in literature people love from afar, without ever receiving compensation. It is possible to love someone without ever having met them, and without them even knowing you exist. It may not be a healthy or fulfilling love if it goes no further, but it is how relationships frequently start.

My last serious gf did not love me in exchange for making her laugh or making her cum. She loved me because I could. It's a subtle but very important difference.
 
M

Mon. Henri Ibid

#44
#44
Buddhist Manual for Loving Whores (Worth Repeating)

WHEN I WAS BACK THERE IN SEMINARY SCHOOL, THERE WAS A PERSON THERE WHO PUT FORTH THE PROPOSITION THAT YOU COULD PETITION THE LORD WITH PRAYER,

A man can safely experience love for a prostitute who he finds lovable; provided he recognizes at all times that, as far as she is concerned, the
woman could be having sex with any other man or woman during those moments he is with her, and may, in fact, be secretly wishing that this was
the case.

PETITION THE LORD WITH PRAYER,

All that is required is a complete lack of self-importance and vanity about oneself while experiencing a simultaneous feeling of affectionate appreciation for the woman, her story and character; those personal qualities in her in
which her beauty truly lies.* Since affection is always required to experience the best sex, this is the condition required to be fulfilled for the production of the best possible commercial sex.

There can be no need or hope involved when confronting the Void. There is no defense against it. It is as much a part of the picture of commercial sex as the sky above. The Void, her ferocity and need to have promiscuous sex with
all reasonable comers to control and dictate the terms of her own beauty and desirability, is what allowed you to meet her in the first place. It can never be bought off and told to disappear through sly tricks of conceit or childish self-importance.

PETITION THE LORD WITH PRAYER.

A man who doesn't view the experience of love for a prostitute in such terms will find himself roughly in the same psychological position as the evil black leather coated be-Homburged and bespectacled Nazi in one of the closing scenes of Raiders of the Lost Ark.

A wonderful feeling of emotional and sensual delight will first envelop him as he thrills to the caresses of angels that he believes he can control through the payment of money. As the reality of the situation dawns upon him,
however, his face will start to melt and he will start to scream as he belatedly and unwillingly confronts his own essential fungibility.

YOU CANNOT PETITION THE LORD WITH PRAYER.

It's really quite simple. A child could figure it out.

Any contrary theorizing is pure Dreamboy bullshit which lacks the courage to stare the psychological realites and inane wish fulfillment nature of commercial sex full in the face.


Judge Crater (just another Character in the Void learning new childish tricks and resisting the urge to look while tied to a stake and wearing a cool hat)


* This assumes, of course, that she possesses such personal qualities. Not all prostitutes do.
 
W

Wwanderer

Kids, don't try this at home
#45
#45
Originally posted by justme
And that difference is?
Quid pro quo.
Good relationships aren't based on the exchange of whatever. I have never bought a woman dinner because I thought doing so would get me laid. I have never bought a woman anything to get laid. I buy a woman something because I want to. She fucks me because, presumably, she likes it.
If there is any predefined agreement of exchange, either tacit or overt, I can't see how the word 'love' can even enter the picture.
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The rub, of course, are those tacit "predefined agreements", which are nearly as subject to misunderstandings as provider-client relationships. You may not, but how many men have bought a woman in dinner with the primary motivation of getting into her pants? How many wives have left a husband who stopped providing for them financially at the level they expected? How many husbands have left (and stopped supporting) wives who ceased to be their sexual partners? In other words, I think you have identified an important, probably the important, difference, but it can be damn hard, in practise, to determine whether or not a relationship is quid pro quo...which makes the distinction considerably less useful.

-Ww
 
W

Wwanderer

Kids, don't try this at home
#46
#46
Re: Re: Re: Re: Falling for a Provider

Originally posted by buddyyy

1 - While it may be true that many relationships with commercial sex providers are limited to the exchange of economic value and sex, so are many marriages. But it is ridiculous to believe that it is not possible to have a fuller, more developed relationship with a commercial sex provider, just as it is ridiculous to assume that that a relationship is anything more than such an exchange because it is within a monogamous marriage.

2 - Our society has created a structure and stereotypes for "sex for pay" relationships, which includes the concept that such relationships are in some way fundamentally different from other relationships that a man may have with a women. The problem is that the entire paradigm rests on the rejection of the fact that providers are also human beings.
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1 - BIG ditto.

2 - HUGE ditto. (Btw, this idea is explicitly at the heart of CitV, namely the claim that no provider is a "normal woman".)

These two particularly clear insights (imo) were sort of hidden well down in your post...which is why I wanted to single them out in this nearly contentless comment.

-Ww
 
W

Wwanderer

Kids, don't try this at home
#48
#48
Originally posted by oddfellow4870
In fact, some might argue that those who don't do this are cowards who can't control themselves. Why pay for superficial play? Why not become an actor in a play you'll never forget? Of course I wouldn't say that.
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"Cowards" is too pejorative, and I wouldn't say that either. However, I do think that people are unwisely risk averse in many many contexts in life. In other words, I suspect that they end up gettng much less out of life than they might have by focusing too much on downsides and risks. They cannot be ignored, of course, but not everything that is risky is unwise, which seems to be the default assumption many people operate under.

-Ww
 
S

SkellyChamp

#49
#49
Originally posted by Wwanderer


"Cowards" is too pejorative, and I wouldn't say that either. However, I do think that people are unwisely risk averse in many many contexts in life. In other words, I suspect that they end up gettng much less out of life than they might have by focusing too much on downsides and risks. They cannot be ignored, of course, but not everything that is risky is unwise, which seems to be the default assumption many people operate under.

-Ww
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But the determination of undertaking the risk is based on deciding whether the benefit outweighs the cost and I would submit that in relationships with providers the benefit almost without exception cannot outweigh the cost.
 
B

buddyyy

#50
#50
Re: Buddhist Manual for Loving Whores (Worth Repeating)

Originally posted by Mon. Henri Ibid
WHEN I WAS BACK THERE IN SEMINARY SCHOOL, THERE WAS A PERSON THERE WHO PUT FORTH THE PROPOSITION THAT YOU COULD PETITION THE LORD WITH PRAYER,

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Why would someone pray to a Lord that needs specific directions?
 
J

justlooking

#52
#52
Some of the preceding posts in this thread made me think about it. And I can say, with no surprise at all, that out of all the prostitutes/strippers/whatever I've hung with, there's maybe one that I would consider spending time with if I weren't having sex with her (or, in the case of some of the strippers, trying to).
 
P

pswope

One out of three
#53
#53
Originally posted by justlooking
Some of the preceding posts in this thread made me think about it. And I can say, with no surprise at all, that out of all the prostitutes/strippers/whatever I've hung with, there's maybe one that I would consider spending time with if I weren't having sex with her (or, in the case of some of the strippers, trying to).
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yeah,but you're an elitist snob(a variation of that Groucho line I wouldn't want to be a member of a club that would have me as one)
 
M

Mon. Henri Ibid

#54
#54
It's the introduction to "Soft Parade," the title track from the Doors album of the same name. It was released in the summer of 1969.

I used to sing this song to myself on the way home from the house of the girl who gave me my first blowjobs in October and November of 1969 while I sat atop the washer and dryer in her parent's basement after school. We pretended to do homework. I helped her do the laundry afterwards.

Having just recently stopped being an altar boy after six years, I was, how do I say, feeling just a tad conflicted by the experience.

Ah, memory!
 
J

justlooking

#56
#56
pswope

Maybe that came across as snobby, but I didn't mean it that way at all. I'm sure the same is true for them (with the substitution of "being paid by" for "having sex with").
 
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occasionalhobbyist

#59
#59
Originally posted by Space
Interesting way for you to refer to making love.

But then, if I paid for sex with your wife I'm sure you'd be OK with that.
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If my wife were a whore and she slept with you and still came home to me at night and kissed the kid on the forehead and held my hand and put up with my shit, yes I'd be ok with that.
 
O

occasionalhobbyist

#60
#60
Originally posted by salomon

We all do what we must to convince ourselves of what we want to believe.
Rationalization and denial are such integral parts of life and especially of this hobby.
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Absolutely. In my case, I'd much prefer to not believe what I've stated above.
 
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