Dream come true, or ... nightmare?
- Thread starter donquixote04
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donq, i just found your thread last night and spent an HOUR AND A HALF READING!! good story. i do agree with the sentiments of the cynics in the audience. just because you have good sex with a woman, means that's enough of a basis for a live-in relationship? you should know better, your a fucking grown man! you don't even know how to buy lingerie! im not trying to bust your balls. you seem like a a true mensch. bottom line is, don't believe ANYTHING a full time whore tells you. you're also a cheap fuck. should have given her more dough (she is a whore, duh!). you MUST be GUY CATELLI! stop fooling around on your wife. its bad karma. tell the bitch to lose some weight. or just give her some dough, and move on with your life.
No dis...
No dis taken...
My story wasn't intended to elicit sympathy, or to act as a soul-cleansing for myself...I was merely trying to let DQ know that he's not the first to go through something like this (although, our circumstances were pretty different -- I was merely looking at a bargain for a week-long trip; and was completely shocked when the lady confessed her feelings to me, and then, when she got me to consider them, I got spun around and faced with violence...and..<chuckle> kidnapping...too funny).
Point is, I think, on some level, something like this happens to EVERYONE....once...it's when it happens a SECOND time than you need to take a look at your situation.
DQ - did you mean to say I was LUCKIER than you? or UNLUCKIER than you? I guess either one kinda works ;/
Lemur
No dis taken...
My story wasn't intended to elicit sympathy, or to act as a soul-cleansing for myself...I was merely trying to let DQ know that he's not the first to go through something like this (although, our circumstances were pretty different -- I was merely looking at a bargain for a week-long trip; and was completely shocked when the lady confessed her feelings to me, and then, when she got me to consider them, I got spun around and faced with violence...and..<chuckle> kidnapping...too funny).
Point is, I think, on some level, something like this happens to EVERYONE....once...it's when it happens a SECOND time than you need to take a look at your situation.
DQ - did you mean to say I was LUCKIER than you? or UNLUCKIER than you? I guess either one kinda works ;/
Lemur
to WernerE
Jeez, give me a little credit, will ya? I've been hobbying since 1979, and never reacted to anyone like this. Believe me, my reactions to Lisa weren't just because of the great sex (although that obviously played a part). Lisa is different, and special.
And your point is?
As near as I can tell, Lisa provides 6-8 weeks a year, one week at a time. I think this fails most people's definitions of "full time whore." In particular, I don't think Lisa thinks of herself this way, either, and I don't think she behaves in ways typical of other women who do think of themselves as full time providers.
I'm certainly not Guy Catelli. But to the point, I actually did try to increase my payments to Lisa, and she declined. This is just one example of what I meant earlier when I said that "I don't think she behaves in ways typical of other women who do think of themselves as full time providers."
Do you believe all married hobbyists should separate from their wives, or is this advice just for me?
Jeez, give me a little credit, will ya? I've been hobbying since 1979, and never reacted to anyone like this. Believe me, my reactions to Lisa weren't just because of the great sex (although that obviously played a part). Lisa is different, and special.
And your point is?
As near as I can tell, Lisa provides 6-8 weeks a year, one week at a time. I think this fails most people's definitions of "full time whore." In particular, I don't think Lisa thinks of herself this way, either, and I don't think she behaves in ways typical of other women who do think of themselves as full time providers.
I'm certainly not Guy Catelli. But to the point, I actually did try to increase my payments to Lisa, and she declined. This is just one example of what I meant earlier when I said that "I don't think she behaves in ways typical of other women who do think of themselves as full time providers."
Do you believe all married hobbyists should separate from their wives, or is this advice just for me?
Life is quick, and then its done. Enjoy it. I don't understand why married guys resort to major hobbying( i.e 3-5 times a month or more). If your not attracted to your wife. leave. Or just tell her you want to stay married and be firnds, but you will fuck others. Since your not fucking anyway. she shouldn't mind. Wives major concerns are financial security. but what the fuck do i know? i've never been married. but then again, i have never had the desire to cheat on a gf. if i ever lose the attraction i just LEAVE (nicely, of course!). please don't misconstrue my opinions for moral judgements.
to Hotpuppy:
That's a real good question, Hotpuppy. I know lots (most?) of the posters here think I'm a real jerk. I'm a bit surprised that more people haven't been more "in my face" about that. I've actually tried to be pretty relaxed in the face of most of the critiques I've gotten. But some of the posts seem to be people just "shooting from the hip," without any thought or even that much sense. For example, Werner's reference to a "full time whore" falls into this category.
Some of the posts also seem to be very condenscending. Some posters seem to think I might be vulnerable to falling in love with any provider I might happen to encounter. Geez, do you think that with a little thought these posters might give me a little credit for some intelligence? I'm over 50, I've been hobbying for for 23 years, I've managed my way through life and through this hobby pretty well up to now. Is it so hard to accept, or impossible to imagine, that Lisa really is different than the typical (or even atypical) provider in most people's experience?
I think a fair observer would conclude that I've only "responded / defended" my story under two circumstances. One is when the posts are extreme -- extremely thoughtless or extremely condenscending, or both. The other is when I've played "devil's advocate" in order to clarify a bit of advice I've received.
That's a real good question, Hotpuppy. I know lots (most?) of the posters here think I'm a real jerk. I'm a bit surprised that more people haven't been more "in my face" about that. I've actually tried to be pretty relaxed in the face of most of the critiques I've gotten. But some of the posts seem to be people just "shooting from the hip," without any thought or even that much sense. For example, Werner's reference to a "full time whore" falls into this category.
Some of the posts also seem to be very condenscending. Some posters seem to think I might be vulnerable to falling in love with any provider I might happen to encounter. Geez, do you think that with a little thought these posters might give me a little credit for some intelligence? I'm over 50, I've been hobbying for for 23 years, I've managed my way through life and through this hobby pretty well up to now. Is it so hard to accept, or impossible to imagine, that Lisa really is different than the typical (or even atypical) provider in most people's experience?
I think a fair observer would conclude that I've only "responded / defended" my story under two circumstances. One is when the posts are extreme -- extremely thoughtless or extremely condenscending, or both. The other is when I've played "devil's advocate" in order to clarify a bit of advice I've received.
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to WernerE:
Do you understand married guys resorting to minor hobbying? Like, 1-2 times a month? Or even less, like once every month or two? If so, then you can probably also figure out the major hobbying -- the motives are probably pretty much the same.
Or is it that you can't understand why married guys want to hobby at all? I'm guessing there's lots of reasons, but in my case, imagine being married to someone who doesn't want to make love anymore. Does that help?
A lot of guys decide to stay married to women they no longer find attractive for other reasons. In some cases, they know splitting up would cause a lot of pain for people they love (their kids, for example). In other cases, they know that splitting up would cost them a shit load of cash. In fact hobbying is a common way for guys with these issues to deal with their sexual desires without risking their marriage. In lots of other cases, guys are happy in their marriages but still don't want to be monogomous. Hobbying can solve their problems, too. Over the years, both of these situations have applied to me, at different times. Lately, I've become more demanding of myself about having a complete relationship or getting out of it altogether. I guess I've become less complacent about staying in a marriage without a satisfying sex life.
Give me a break. How financially secure do you think any wife would be if they knew (or even thought) that their husband was sleeping with other women? Want a clue? The answer is "not at all."
With all due respect, this is pretty obvious.
Do you understand married guys resorting to minor hobbying? Like, 1-2 times a month? Or even less, like once every month or two? If so, then you can probably also figure out the major hobbying -- the motives are probably pretty much the same.
Or is it that you can't understand why married guys want to hobby at all? I'm guessing there's lots of reasons, but in my case, imagine being married to someone who doesn't want to make love anymore. Does that help?
A lot of guys decide to stay married to women they no longer find attractive for other reasons. In some cases, they know splitting up would cause a lot of pain for people they love (their kids, for example). In other cases, they know that splitting up would cost them a shit load of cash. In fact hobbying is a common way for guys with these issues to deal with their sexual desires without risking their marriage. In lots of other cases, guys are happy in their marriages but still don't want to be monogomous. Hobbying can solve their problems, too. Over the years, both of these situations have applied to me, at different times. Lately, I've become more demanding of myself about having a complete relationship or getting out of it altogether. I guess I've become less complacent about staying in a marriage without a satisfying sex life.
Give me a break. How financially secure do you think any wife would be if they knew (or even thought) that their husband was sleeping with other women? Want a clue? The answer is "not at all."
With all due respect, this is pretty obvious.
Man lives his entire life accumulating tremendous experience. Women are loved and lost, children are raised, professional careers are established and maintained . . . and then man goes and has the mid-life crisis. This is where man forgets all the lessons life has taught him, and decides to give his adolescent fantasies one last shot. It's truly depressing.
Stories like Don's remind me why "Husbands and Wives" is one of the greatest movies ever made.
Stories like Don's remind me why "Husbands and Wives" is one of the greatest movies ever made.
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WOW!!!
to paraphrase a commercial..."i can't believe i read the whole thing"...what a story...only took several hours...
just feel some sense of relief that you are not the only hobbyist to have been dealt with some of the issues you have faced...both the good and the bad...
good luck dude...keep us informed...
to paraphrase a commercial..."i can't believe i read the whole thing"...what a story...only took several hours...
just feel some sense of relief that you are not the only hobbyist to have been dealt with some of the issues you have faced...both the good and the bad...
good luck dude...keep us informed...
Getting over Lisa and getting on with my life
It's been about 2 months since my relationship - such as it was - with Lisa ended. I haven't heard from her, nor do I expect to, ever again. I will, however, admit that I still hope to. Not that I'd make any drastic decisions if she did call me, but I'm sure I would restart the process of trying to figure out if she is anything at all like the person I projected her to be - the person I fell in love with.
Last week was the week I had hoped to spend with Lisa, giving us the chance to get to know each other better. When things collapsed, I decided to set last week aside for myself - to spend some "quality time" practicing the hobby, hoping that a few good sessions might help me get past the hurt.
I originally figured that Montreal would be a good place for this (the real Lisa is not from Montreal), and I had a good time doing some research on the hobby in Montreal. The scene there is clearly a hobbyist's paradise. In some ways, it is far better than the situation in NYC. For example, providers are predominately young, fresh, natural, unjaded, and very pretty.
But, in other ways, Montreal it is very hit or miss, akin to the typical borough outcall agency. Partly this is because "yellow pages" agencies dominate the industry. Even the advent of the internet is only just now beginning to change this. Until this year, even most of the agencies with web sites didn't post pictures of their providers. Even now, many agencies still don't display pictures. This situation can work well for regulars (who are local, of course). In fact, the hobby and the situation appears to be completely geared to the local non-traveling market. This is one reason why the Montreal prices are so low. Typical agency fees are $150-$200 (Cdn) per hour, which translates to $100-$135 (US). These bargain rates stem directly from a pretty depressed Quebec economy. The same poor economy accounts for the plentiful supply of fresh new providers, which also serves to keep prices down.
There are also some negatives associated with this situation. dfk is possible, but much more likely if you a regular (like the AMP scene here: "next time better"). bbbj is also possible, but not very likely, especially for a stranger from south of the border. Of course, review sites improve the odds, but turnover is high among a very transient provider population who shift from agency to agency or leave the business entirely. Therefore, in addition to the inevitable "ymmv factor," the subject of a good review may be hard to find or not be available on any particular day or week.
Since I want to be very confident about a good session, and strongly prefer that confidence to the thrill of the hunt, after some reflection I decided against Montreal.
I next turned my attention to southern Florida. There are many, many independents and agencies with good reputations and reviews, and a lot of them have caught my eye over the last couple of years. But then the tbd bust in Tampa interfered. "How many providers or agencies would be willing to schedule with an unknown," I reasoned. I reached out to some local hobbyists, and was able to get a few people to vouch for me, but in the end decided not to spend the travel time and dollars to get to an uncertain situation and potentially some unsettling sessions.
So, I decided to stay home and party in our fair NYC metro area. I was originally thinking about scheduling 3 or 4 sessions during the week, but at the end of the week before I ended up doing an unexpected overnight business trip to Baltimore, where I met Mimi.
My review of Mimi:
http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=7042
So, as it turned out, I set up two additional sessions, with Candy Cotton and Lexi of South Florida, who was touring in the NYC area.
My review of Candy:
http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=7226
My review of Lexi:
http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=7227
So, within a week's time, I met three attractive, young (under 25 years old) women. All three offered dfk, daty, multiple positions, and bbbj's. Two of the three provided a very nice fantasy role-play session (of my design); two of the three provided bbbjtc's. These sessions, by any objective measure, were prime examples of the peak hobbyist experience, sought after by many, and hard to find using the primitive research tools available to many of us in the pre-internet days.
So, now the week is done. How did it go? Am I back in the game? Was this binge a good idea? Did it produce the desired result?
I'm afraid the answers are mostly negative. In retrospect it's easy to see why - so easy that it's a little upsetting to me that I wasn't able to anticipate this before the week began.
Each of us have our particular turn-ons. Some of us seek very large breasts. Others look for the best legs or ass we can find. In other cases, it isn't a physical attribute of the provider, but a particular activity. I've seen greek, russian, bbbj, and facials all mentioned in this regard. For me, the peak turn-on is the fantasy, illusion, or (ultimately) reality that my sex partner is strongly aroused. Of course, I realize that it's too much to expect real arousal from a stranger. That's why I often suggest a role-play scenario. If the provider is a good actress (and many providers are very good actresses) and willing to use her acting skills, the result is typically a very good session indeed.
Once I understood my own sexual preferences well enough, I began to design sessions likely to result in good experiences. This approach has produced good results for me for years. Last week it failed.
All three sessions were objectively terrific, but my reaction was boredom. Why? My conclusion is that Lisa has spoiled me for other providers, at least for the time being. I probably don't really know her; she probably projected onto me the person she wanted me to see; she certainly hurt me deeply. But for all that, I'm convinced that the sexual chemistry between us was very real. Lisa is beautiful, and has the body I find most appealing. She (or at least the person she projects herself to be) is witty and warm and intelligent and friendly. The sex we had was the best sex I ever had. The good sessions I have had with great providers - last week and over the years - don't even come close to what I experienced with Lisa.
So I think I'm going to take a break from the hobby. I don't know whether the break will be extended or brief, but I think I have to really want a provider experience for its own sake for it to have any value or pleasure for me. Wanting it just as a device to help forget Lisa proved to be losing proposition.
It's been about 2 months since my relationship - such as it was - with Lisa ended. I haven't heard from her, nor do I expect to, ever again. I will, however, admit that I still hope to. Not that I'd make any drastic decisions if she did call me, but I'm sure I would restart the process of trying to figure out if she is anything at all like the person I projected her to be - the person I fell in love with.
Last week was the week I had hoped to spend with Lisa, giving us the chance to get to know each other better. When things collapsed, I decided to set last week aside for myself - to spend some "quality time" practicing the hobby, hoping that a few good sessions might help me get past the hurt.
I originally figured that Montreal would be a good place for this (the real Lisa is not from Montreal), and I had a good time doing some research on the hobby in Montreal. The scene there is clearly a hobbyist's paradise. In some ways, it is far better than the situation in NYC. For example, providers are predominately young, fresh, natural, unjaded, and very pretty.
But, in other ways, Montreal it is very hit or miss, akin to the typical borough outcall agency. Partly this is because "yellow pages" agencies dominate the industry. Even the advent of the internet is only just now beginning to change this. Until this year, even most of the agencies with web sites didn't post pictures of their providers. Even now, many agencies still don't display pictures. This situation can work well for regulars (who are local, of course). In fact, the hobby and the situation appears to be completely geared to the local non-traveling market. This is one reason why the Montreal prices are so low. Typical agency fees are $150-$200 (Cdn) per hour, which translates to $100-$135 (US). These bargain rates stem directly from a pretty depressed Quebec economy. The same poor economy accounts for the plentiful supply of fresh new providers, which also serves to keep prices down.
There are also some negatives associated with this situation. dfk is possible, but much more likely if you a regular (like the AMP scene here: "next time better"). bbbj is also possible, but not very likely, especially for a stranger from south of the border. Of course, review sites improve the odds, but turnover is high among a very transient provider population who shift from agency to agency or leave the business entirely. Therefore, in addition to the inevitable "ymmv factor," the subject of a good review may be hard to find or not be available on any particular day or week.
Since I want to be very confident about a good session, and strongly prefer that confidence to the thrill of the hunt, after some reflection I decided against Montreal.
I next turned my attention to southern Florida. There are many, many independents and agencies with good reputations and reviews, and a lot of them have caught my eye over the last couple of years. But then the tbd bust in Tampa interfered. "How many providers or agencies would be willing to schedule with an unknown," I reasoned. I reached out to some local hobbyists, and was able to get a few people to vouch for me, but in the end decided not to spend the travel time and dollars to get to an uncertain situation and potentially some unsettling sessions.
So, I decided to stay home and party in our fair NYC metro area. I was originally thinking about scheduling 3 or 4 sessions during the week, but at the end of the week before I ended up doing an unexpected overnight business trip to Baltimore, where I met Mimi.
My review of Mimi:
http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=7042
So, as it turned out, I set up two additional sessions, with Candy Cotton and Lexi of South Florida, who was touring in the NYC area.
My review of Candy:
http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=7226
My review of Lexi:
http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=7227
So, within a week's time, I met three attractive, young (under 25 years old) women. All three offered dfk, daty, multiple positions, and bbbj's. Two of the three provided a very nice fantasy role-play session (of my design); two of the three provided bbbjtc's. These sessions, by any objective measure, were prime examples of the peak hobbyist experience, sought after by many, and hard to find using the primitive research tools available to many of us in the pre-internet days.
So, now the week is done. How did it go? Am I back in the game? Was this binge a good idea? Did it produce the desired result?
I'm afraid the answers are mostly negative. In retrospect it's easy to see why - so easy that it's a little upsetting to me that I wasn't able to anticipate this before the week began.
Each of us have our particular turn-ons. Some of us seek very large breasts. Others look for the best legs or ass we can find. In other cases, it isn't a physical attribute of the provider, but a particular activity. I've seen greek, russian, bbbj, and facials all mentioned in this regard. For me, the peak turn-on is the fantasy, illusion, or (ultimately) reality that my sex partner is strongly aroused. Of course, I realize that it's too much to expect real arousal from a stranger. That's why I often suggest a role-play scenario. If the provider is a good actress (and many providers are very good actresses) and willing to use her acting skills, the result is typically a very good session indeed.
Once I understood my own sexual preferences well enough, I began to design sessions likely to result in good experiences. This approach has produced good results for me for years. Last week it failed.
All three sessions were objectively terrific, but my reaction was boredom. Why? My conclusion is that Lisa has spoiled me for other providers, at least for the time being. I probably don't really know her; she probably projected onto me the person she wanted me to see; she certainly hurt me deeply. But for all that, I'm convinced that the sexual chemistry between us was very real. Lisa is beautiful, and has the body I find most appealing. She (or at least the person she projects herself to be) is witty and warm and intelligent and friendly. The sex we had was the best sex I ever had. The good sessions I have had with great providers - last week and over the years - don't even come close to what I experienced with Lisa.
So I think I'm going to take a break from the hobby. I don't know whether the break will be extended or brief, but I think I have to really want a provider experience for its own sake for it to have any value or pleasure for me. Wanting it just as a device to help forget Lisa proved to be losing proposition.
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I think, DQ, had you found an experience that was even a small part as satisfying as what you had with Lisa, that you would have been a little less human than your posts in this thread have led me to believe you were.
I still think that the greatest leverage point in improving your quality of life either lies in improving your relationship with your wife, or with moving on and finding someone who can satisfy all of your needs.
I still think that the greatest leverage point in improving your quality of life either lies in improving your relationship with your wife, or with moving on and finding someone who can satisfy all of your needs.
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