Coyote Busted?
- Thread starter VIAGRAADDICT
- Start date
Re: Re: Re: Re: hitler = socialist ????
The proposition you propose is ludicrous.
I would counter propose that a moderate, centerist, would never suggest, "Lets kill only the males".
A moderate, centerist, would say, "Why is it necessary to kill anyone? Before I go considering a bill I want to know why the hell its being proposed in the first place."
The lack of any logical answer to the question would then cause the moderate/centerist to vote nay on the bill and attempt to quash it in committee before it even reached the floor.
And THAT is what a moderate/centerist would do with something like the situation you propose above.
The whole idea of moderate/centerism is to not do anything that doesn't have, at its core, logic that can be articulated in concrete terms. The whole problem with the extreme left and right is that they operate to much on "feeling" and not enough on common sense.
The second you ask someone, "Why should we do this?", and the only response is, "Because its the right thing to do.", and you ask, "Well, why is that?, and the response is, "Because it is!" you know you are in territory established, owned, and operated by extremists.
The proposition you propose is ludicrous.
I would counter propose that a moderate, centerist, would never suggest, "Lets kill only the males".
A moderate, centerist, would say, "Why is it necessary to kill anyone? Before I go considering a bill I want to know why the hell its being proposed in the first place."
The lack of any logical answer to the question would then cause the moderate/centerist to vote nay on the bill and attempt to quash it in committee before it even reached the floor.
And THAT is what a moderate/centerist would do with something like the situation you propose above.
The whole idea of moderate/centerism is to not do anything that doesn't have, at its core, logic that can be articulated in concrete terms. The whole problem with the extreme left and right is that they operate to much on "feeling" and not enough on common sense.
The second you ask someone, "Why should we do this?", and the only response is, "Because its the right thing to do.", and you ask, "Well, why is that?, and the response is, "Because it is!" you know you are in territory established, owned, and operated by extremists.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: hitler = socialist ????
You can think so if you want. Plus I admit it was a hue and cry in the early 70's that moderates in both parties were too much like each other and therefore offered no choice to the voting public. Still, the pull away from the center by both parties, to the extreme left and the extreme right has left a gap of thinking totally unrepresented.
I am so in favor of the creation of a real third party to fill that gap. If I had my way I'd call it the "Common Sense Party".
What you would call mediocrity, I would call "measured".
Frankly, if you forced me to label my politics I would tell you that I favor liberal social politics and conservitive fiscal politics. This basically boils down to something like this: You have the freedom to do pretty much as you please, provided what you please does not interfere directly with the freedom of others to do as they please. Where there is conflict there is law, in the form of statute and ordinance, and case law, to breach the gaps and provide direction and order. While you have such freedom you are also responsible for that which you create as the results of your actions. You are not free to create a mess and expect someone else to clean it up.
For instance. Things like certain drugs would be legalized. The war on drugs is horribly expensive, ineffective, and leads to the incarceration of hundreds of thousands at tax payer expense for non-trafficing related offenses. Sale of these drugs would be overseen by the Food and Drug Administration and taxes would be paid at point of sale, as well as licensing fees paid by the retailers and processers. It would be CONTROLED. These fees would pay for the social damage done by the use of these drugs. Rehab for users who want to quit, etc.
Same for prostitution. Three thousand years of recorded history says you can not stop the provider of sex from meeting with the purchaser of sex. It will continue no matter what you try to do to curtail it. So, legalize it and CONTROL it. Place it in red light districts where only those interested in selling and seeking these services will be exposed to them. Those not interested wouldn't have to deal with it. Those involved become citizens again, and free to seek protection from the police if their property or persons are injured. Mandatory safer sex practices and regular medical exams could be enforced though licensing. Fees and taxes raised on licensing and sale would be used to provide for clinics to treat STD's, for continuing education and training programs to put providers who wanted to leave the life into the standard work force, etc. It would leave law enforcement free to divert its vice forces into an area that truly needs attention. The absolutely horrible, and totally run amoke, sale of children for the purposes of sex that takes place in this country. Its a sin and a shame and we should all cry over it... better yet, we should all DO something about it. This would be a good first step.
Finally, when combined with legalized gambling [set up the same way as above] the side benefit is that you have broken the back of every organized crime syndicate in America. As every business they get into is funded with the big three: gambling, sex for sale, and drugs. Without this money they would go broke and could not finance their corruption of government officials and so you get better and less corrupt government out of the deal as well.
That is my idea of how a moderate approaches a problem. You look for the logical ways to accomplish a task, acknowledge the limitations [in this case that history indicates that people will not be stopped from commiting certain vice crimes, but might yield to controls instead] and seek solutions that work because logic dictates they have the best chance of solving the problems.
You can think so if you want. Plus I admit it was a hue and cry in the early 70's that moderates in both parties were too much like each other and therefore offered no choice to the voting public. Still, the pull away from the center by both parties, to the extreme left and the extreme right has left a gap of thinking totally unrepresented.
I am so in favor of the creation of a real third party to fill that gap. If I had my way I'd call it the "Common Sense Party".
What you would call mediocrity, I would call "measured".
Frankly, if you forced me to label my politics I would tell you that I favor liberal social politics and conservitive fiscal politics. This basically boils down to something like this: You have the freedom to do pretty much as you please, provided what you please does not interfere directly with the freedom of others to do as they please. Where there is conflict there is law, in the form of statute and ordinance, and case law, to breach the gaps and provide direction and order. While you have such freedom you are also responsible for that which you create as the results of your actions. You are not free to create a mess and expect someone else to clean it up.
For instance. Things like certain drugs would be legalized. The war on drugs is horribly expensive, ineffective, and leads to the incarceration of hundreds of thousands at tax payer expense for non-trafficing related offenses. Sale of these drugs would be overseen by the Food and Drug Administration and taxes would be paid at point of sale, as well as licensing fees paid by the retailers and processers. It would be CONTROLED. These fees would pay for the social damage done by the use of these drugs. Rehab for users who want to quit, etc.
Same for prostitution. Three thousand years of recorded history says you can not stop the provider of sex from meeting with the purchaser of sex. It will continue no matter what you try to do to curtail it. So, legalize it and CONTROL it. Place it in red light districts where only those interested in selling and seeking these services will be exposed to them. Those not interested wouldn't have to deal with it. Those involved become citizens again, and free to seek protection from the police if their property or persons are injured. Mandatory safer sex practices and regular medical exams could be enforced though licensing. Fees and taxes raised on licensing and sale would be used to provide for clinics to treat STD's, for continuing education and training programs to put providers who wanted to leave the life into the standard work force, etc. It would leave law enforcement free to divert its vice forces into an area that truly needs attention. The absolutely horrible, and totally run amoke, sale of children for the purposes of sex that takes place in this country. Its a sin and a shame and we should all cry over it... better yet, we should all DO something about it. This would be a good first step.
Finally, when combined with legalized gambling [set up the same way as above] the side benefit is that you have broken the back of every organized crime syndicate in America. As every business they get into is funded with the big three: gambling, sex for sale, and drugs. Without this money they would go broke and could not finance their corruption of government officials and so you get better and less corrupt government out of the deal as well.
That is my idea of how a moderate approaches a problem. You look for the logical ways to accomplish a task, acknowledge the limitations [in this case that history indicates that people will not be stopped from commiting certain vice crimes, but might yield to controls instead] and seek solutions that work because logic dictates they have the best chance of solving the problems.
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P.S. This should be obvious, but just in case it isn't:
The "accountablity concept" built into this means that the general tax payer, who pays billions of dollars annually to deal with the fall out of vice crime in America in the form of incarceration, medical, rehabilitation, law enforcement and administrative costs, get a very big helping hand from those actually causing the need for these costs and no longer has to foot the bill him/herself.
There is no reason that a drug user should cost a person who never used drugs in their lives to pay, solely, for his rehabilitation.
There is no reason that because I see sex workers that someone who has never done so in their entire life should pay for the treatment of my STD. There is no reason that my decision to be a sex worker, and then a decision later on to get out of that life, should require someone who has never considered such a thing to pay for my education or training.
The notions above which provide for maximum personal freedom also provide for maximum personal accountablity. It would greatly curtail the cost [though probably not entirely] on the general tax payer and free them from picking up the tab for other peoples decisions they had no part in making.
End of speech. Soap box put away... for now.
The "accountablity concept" built into this means that the general tax payer, who pays billions of dollars annually to deal with the fall out of vice crime in America in the form of incarceration, medical, rehabilitation, law enforcement and administrative costs, get a very big helping hand from those actually causing the need for these costs and no longer has to foot the bill him/herself.
There is no reason that a drug user should cost a person who never used drugs in their lives to pay, solely, for his rehabilitation.
There is no reason that because I see sex workers that someone who has never done so in their entire life should pay for the treatment of my STD. There is no reason that my decision to be a sex worker, and then a decision later on to get out of that life, should require someone who has never considered such a thing to pay for my education or training.
The notions above which provide for maximum personal freedom also provide for maximum personal accountablity. It would greatly curtail the cost [though probably not entirely] on the general tax payer and free them from picking up the tab for other peoples decisions they had no part in making.
End of speech. Soap box put away... for now.
Thorn, check out the Libertarian Party. Pretty close to what you are looking for.
I am well aware of that PJ.
I avoid the "Libitarian" moniker though, because [as I am sure you are aware] the origins of that party are a bit [depending on who you speak to] either shady or whacko.
The draw too many of the odd ball types who have hunting lodges up in the woods, stocked with water, military rations, and guns. Waiting for "the big day".
No. I am talking about something a bit different. True application of what I see as common sense methodology [though I admit that is a subjective POV] in problem solving.
A real, "OK, what's the best, most practical, way to get the job done.", kind of thing.
I am also for term limits. A line item veto to remove pork from budgets, flat taxes and very limited tariffs. Ever try to figure out exactly how much money you truly pay in taxes and tariffs? It is incredibly difficult, and if you ever do you are likely to find out that its well over 50%. Which is exactly why they don't make it easy to figure out. Government should be run like a business, accountable to its stock holders. [That would be, "We the People"]
I avoid the "Libitarian" moniker though, because [as I am sure you are aware] the origins of that party are a bit [depending on who you speak to] either shady or whacko.
The draw too many of the odd ball types who have hunting lodges up in the woods, stocked with water, military rations, and guns. Waiting for "the big day".
No. I am talking about something a bit different. True application of what I see as common sense methodology [though I admit that is a subjective POV] in problem solving.
A real, "OK, what's the best, most practical, way to get the job done.", kind of thing.
I am also for term limits. A line item veto to remove pork from budgets, flat taxes and very limited tariffs. Ever try to figure out exactly how much money you truly pay in taxes and tariffs? It is incredibly difficult, and if you ever do you are likely to find out that its well over 50%. Which is exactly why they don't make it easy to figure out. Government should be run like a business, accountable to its stock holders. [That would be, "We the People"]
Your funny...well if you see me picking up leaves will you throw me a kiss or something...I dont go to court today, the Lawyer is takin care of it...it's just an arraingment type thing, its been waived...anyway, everything is cool Im just havin serious computer withdrawals...along with more serious sex withdrawals...I cant wait till Saturday so I can get out of NJ and visit some friends...............up in Long Island.......Get this, they took my Tweety Bird Flag and Doormat..,,can ya believe it....))I miss my other smileys....Im really delirious, I havent had sex in 8 days now.....oh GOD!!!!HELPPPPPPPPPMEEEEEEEE!!!
))I miss my other smileys....Im really delirious, I havent had sex in 8 days now.....oh GOD!!!!HELPPPPPPPPPMEEEEEEEE!!!
Originally posted by CoyoteGirlJosi
Your funny...well if you see me picking up leaves will you throw me a kiss or something...I dont go to court today, the Lawyer is takin care of it...it's just an arraingment type thing, its been waived...anyway, everything is cool Im just havin serious computer withdrawals...along with more serious sex withdrawals...I cant wait till Saturday so I can get out of NJ and visit some friends...............up in Long Island.......Get this, they took my Tweety Bird Flag and Doormat..,,can ya believe it....))I miss my other smileys....Im really delirious, I havent had sex in 8 days now.....oh GOD!!!!HELPPPPPPPPPMEEEEEEEE!!!
Your funny...well if you see me picking up leaves will you throw me a kiss or something...I dont go to court today, the Lawyer is takin care of it...it's just an arraingment type thing, its been waived...anyway, everything is cool Im just havin serious computer withdrawals...along with more serious sex withdrawals...I cant wait till Saturday so I can get out of NJ and visit some friends...............up in Long Island.......Get this, they took my Tweety Bird Flag and Doormat..,,can ya believe it....
))I miss my other smileys....Im really delirious, I havent had sex in 8 days now.....oh GOD!!!!HELPPPPPPPPPMEEEEEEEE!!!