When you disconnect the exchange of cash and sex

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TheRealStory

#1
#1
For most of us, this never happens. We want to get laid, we pay someone, they perform and it is over.

But I've been involved with a number of situations where the cash and the sex get disconnected, and if found that there are some very interesting things that result.

I will start with a story about myself and a true working girl.
 
T

TheRealStory

#2
#2
Why I ended a multi-year relationship over $120

I don't typically see professional escorts anymore, but that wasn't always the case. Back in the late 90s, I found an independent incall escort that I really enjoyed seeing. She was inexpensive (120 for the half and 200 for the hour), provided good service and reliable. She also had a very clean apartment in a safe building so it was a home run in many ways.

She wasn't quite the GFE that I prefer which is why she wasn't an ATF per se but she did give a good BBBJ with multiples and I couldn't argue with the price factor.

I saw her sporadically, and then in 2000 I switched jobs and literally ended up working less than one block away from her apt. Once I got over the fear of getting caught entering her building by coworkers, I got into a routine where I saw her at least 2-3x a month. She was available during the days when she wasn't in school so I spent many a "lunch hour" at her place.

Somewhere around 2002 or 3, I went over for an appointment as usual, and afterwards, we were chatting it up and I forgot to pay her and she didn't notice. I realized when I got back to my office and I called her to apologize and asked her if she wanted to run the money over right away. She told me to wait until next time and square it up then. I agreed.

So I went on vacation the next week, and when I got back I was thinking of going to see her and all of the sudden it occurred to me that I didn't want to pay double for the session. Needless to say I wasn't paying double, but I found it is very hard to pay for past orgasms.

So I delayed seeing her, instead spending more money elsewhere with some good and bad times, and then got to the point where I was so embarrassed that I couldn't go back.

Keep in mind it wasn't "about" the money as $120 is fairly meaningless to me, but it was about the perceived value of giving up that money for something intangible that had occurred in the past.

To this day I'm still embarrassed but the girl is out of the business and I have no way to make it up to her.
 
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10538

#4
#4
Interestingly, this same thing happened to me, but with somewhat different results. I had someone that I'd seen for only the second time. I didn't do what I usually do, which is to put the envelope on the table first thing, and when I left, I simply forgot to leave it. I realized my error when I got into a taxi to go home and immediately called her to say that I wanted to come back and give her the envelope, but she said that it was OK to wait and pay her when I saw her next. But even though I liked her and intended to see her again, I didn't want the obligation to see her hanging over me, so I insisted on coming back, and I threw in an additional $50 for the hassle (her ratewas $450). She was so grateful that when I got back that we started kissing, hugging and it turned into an additional hour free right then and there. She has since become an STF (though she retired about a month ago).

And speaking of that retirement, I thought that this thread was going to be about something else. One weird thing that I've observed in the past month is that three different providers that I've seen regularly have hooked up with "boyfriends" who are former clients and the ladies have now retired. One of them is being a bit dishonest, because she has changed her name and still sees some old clients on the QT, but the other two are genuinely retired (at least until they break up with the new BF). That to me is a real disconnect in the exchange of cash and sex. Maybe it is something in the water. :) But truthfully, and it is probably a failure of character on my part, but I could see myself being very close friends with NP4P benefits with a provider coupled with the usual boyfriend benefits from me (lavish gifts of clothing, jewelry, theater and fine dining, and maybe rent money), but I don't think I could have one as a girlfriend (though as I am married, I don't have girlfriends). I just couldn't get past the circumstances under which we met and wondering what might be going on while I was at work. My bad, I guess.
 
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J

JIMYDR

#6
#6
In the old days of mongering and streetwalkers in NYC, I saw a few regulely and sometimes
I decided I wanted to do longer sessions but was short of cash. They said no problem, I could pay the $20 or $30 next time and I did.
 
A

Axe

#7
#7
This is a little off-topic, but once again the subject of the "Gray Zone" has popped up. This is where you're really in a P4P thing, but both of you get real good at pretending you're not.

10538 said:
...but the other two are genuinely retired (at least until they break up with the new BF).
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It remains to be seen whether those two are really 'retired' or if they've done nothing more than decide to only see one client. Your expectation that they will eventually break up with their BF's tells me you know what I mean. OTOH, the topic of dating (not 'dating') providers has been beaten to death here, so we'll skip it.

10538 said:
That to me is a real disconnect in the exchange of cash and sex. Maybe it is something in the water. :) But truthfully, and it is probably a failure of character on my part, but I could see myself being very close friends with NP4P benefits with a provider coupled with the usual boyfriend benefits from me (lavish gifts of clothing, jewelry, theater and fine dining, and maybe rent money),...
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lol. Exactly what is it about lavish gifts, jewelry, theater, fine dining, and rent money that would make such a relationship NP4P?

See what I mean about the Gray Zone?
 
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1

10538

#8
#8
Axe said:
It remains to be seen whether those two are really 'retired' or if they've done nothing more than decide to only see one client. Your expectation that they will eventually break up with their BF's tells me you know what I mean.
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What I meant is that there is a big difference between "dating" and more exclusive relationships (not necessarily marriage, but you know what I mean). I think that they are holding out the possibility of returning to the life if things don't work out in a more permenant fashion.



Axe said:
lol. Exactly what is it about lavish gifts, jewelry, theater, fine dining, and rent money that would make such a relationship NP4P?
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LOL indeed. Sure, it is P4P, but more indirect. With P4P there is a direct correlation between the Pay and the Play. With what I describe, the connection is indirect, though none the less real. And it works in a peverse way psychologically. With P4P, you focus on the money first and think "is this something I can afford to spend $X on this week", while in the N(ish)P4P situation, the more satisfying the play is, the more willing you are to "volunteer" the trinkets, etc. that I alluded to.
 
A

Axe

#9
#9
10538 said:
LOL indeed. Sure, it is P4P, but more indirect. With P4P there is a direct correlation between the Pay and the Play. With what I describe, the connection is indirect, though none the less real. And it works in a peverse way psychologically. With P4P, you focus on the money first and think "is this something I can afford to spend $X on this week", while in the N(ish)P4P situation, the more satisfying the play is, the more willing you are to "volunteer" the trinkets, etc. that I alluded to.
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We're on the same page, 105. The differences are enormous and that's why many prefer the Gray Zone but end up going back to conventional P4P when they realize that the effort required to get in the Zone can be nearly as much or maybe more than having a civilian gf.
 
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TheRealStory

#10
#10
Girl 1:

Met from CL. Instant connection. We saw each other fairly consistently for about 8 months, always P4P, always the same amount. As we got to know each other better, we talked about more personal stuff (as is always the case), and I saw an opportunity. As it turns out, every dollar that I had given her since the beginning of our "relationship" she put directly into the bank. She didn't spend it, didn't really need it, but felt it was necessary in order to keep "distance" from a married guy. She was more in it for the sex than anything else, but also had an insecurity about money because she didn't make that much in her day job.

As it turns out, she had a bunch of cc debt that was consolidated at 1.9% or something to that effect, but she didn't "like" having the debt, and for some reason didn't want to take the money that I gaver her and apply it to the debt. She had set up a separate bank account for the money that I gave her, and felt that was "untouchable" money for some reason that I was never able to understand. So once I sensed that it was her CC payments that were causing her some angst, even though she could have easily paid them off from her savings, I offered to stop giving her cash and take over paying down her credit cards so she didn't have to make the payments, thereby easing her monthly nut (no pun intended). She thought about it for a couple of days and agreed.

It made all of the difference in her attitude about money, and we never spoke of it again. Ultimately, I ended up getting a "deal" to some extent, because I paid her "less" on average than I was paying her before, but at the same time she was happier, because in her mind she was debt free.

The result? We hung out a lot more. More dinners, more "non-sexual" meetings, and probably the same amount of sex, but the quality of the sex became more "real" over time.

It was still a P4P relationship, but with the transactional aspect taken off the table, it really didn't feel like that for either of it. It became real, and in some ways a little too real. But since the relationship ended (I ended it about 15 months ago for "personal" reasons), we have remained friends and see each other occasionally, and it is like we never even had the "arrangement" in the first place.
 
T

TheRealStory

#11
#11
Girl 2: (these are not in chronological order)

I travel quite a bit for work, often to the same location. Met a girl through CL (ostensibly for a one-off with the possibility for ongoing if we hit it off) and we hit it off famously. I think she was a true "I never did this before" girl as she was terribly uncomfortable from the first meeting accepting cash from me. I saw her twice during the week I met her, and never once again handed her cash. If she needed something from me, she'd ask and I'd take care of it. I also made regular payments to her one credit card, because she had enough money to take care of herself, but not to pay off the debt incurred from an accident she was in. She was the true "I wish I could find one guy to help me out of a jam but I don't really do this sort of thing" type of girl.

So in reality, she became way more of a girlfriend than a P4P counterpart, sugarbaby or whatever. She called me when she had problems at work, if she got in a fight with her sister, and it was clear I was becoming the center of her world. She was always very careful about boundaries given my personal situation, but I first got uncomfortable when I went on a business trip and was in town over the weekend. We went out on a Saturday night, and she talked about her Friday night date. Wonderful guy, she said, but she was spoiled and she liked hanging out with me better so he didn't make the cut.

Ultimately she became very conflicted, because I could tell she was falling in love with me, but at the same time very respectful of the limits and never caused me a lick of trouble. But I also had to put up with tears, personal problems, and all of the other shit that a "boyfriend" has to put up with in order to get laid.

And with this one, the sex became more sporadic, and even though it was free, was far more complicated and less satisfying over time.
 
T

TheRealStory

#12
#12
Girl 3:

Not too much of a backstory here, just a girl that I saw for a long time, that became comfortable enough with me to ask an advance every now and then. (this relates to my own story with the hooker) I knew her, trusted her, and had no issue with giving her a little extra here and there. When it was small amounts it was never an issue. Give her a couple hundred extra this time, and give her 100 less over the next couple of meetings, etc.

But as these things go, she'd have a "problem" every now and then, and she'd need to come see me at my office (or nearby) and get 3-400 for this or for that, and then we'd meet and it would be free. She got way ahead of me at one point and then accompanied me on a business trip and banged the living daylights out of me for 400 for the week. But shortly after that, something changed. It became harder and harder for me to recoup advances. She got the the point where any money that had changed hands was spent and in the wind, so she could see me and get nothing or see someone else and get paid (she didn't see a lot of people but I wasn't the only one--she wasn't a true non-pro, more like a semi-pro UTR that just liked me more than the rest of her clients).

And so the disconnection ended up causing unnecessary tension and ultimately led to the demise of a multi-year relationship that was beneficial to both of us.
 
T

TheRealStory

#13
#13
And with Girl 3, there was a net of about $600 that she hadn't "worked" off when she vanished. Not that I minded much, given that I was getting a pretty good bargain with her anyway, but it just left a bad taste in my mouth. I'd have given her the money with no strings had she just asked.

I encountered her profile about 4 months ago (about 18 months after I last saw her) on sugardaddyforme.com and sent her a note. Told her no hard feelings and just wanted to know how she was. She answered, sent me a nice note, and then cut off communications again. She was still fucking for money, but I guess my money wasn't green enough.
 
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Axe

#15
#15
I suppose there are exceptions, but when you start off in a clearly P4P situation then drift into the Gray Zone, sooner or later one of you will want to go back to a strictly P4P setup and it's usually the man. Women are better at coming out ahead when they fuck for money, even if it's 'indirect' as 105 says. It aint the oldest profession for no good reason, ya know?
 
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D

DaveNJ

#16
#16
TheRealStory said:
And with Girl 3, there was a net of about $600 that she hadn't "worked" off when she vanished. Not that I minded much, given that I was getting a pretty good bargain with her anyway, but it just left a bad taste in my mouth. I'd have given her the money with no strings had she just asked.
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Karma is a bitch. You shouldn't have fucked over the girl for $120. I still for the life of me can't figure out why you did that, considering it doesn't sound like $120 is a lot of money to you. Scumbag move, if you ask me.
 
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TheRealStory

#19
#19
Completely a scumbag move on my part. I don't disagree with that at all, although I'd have run right back to her place that minute had she asked. I also think that if had had been 3 or 400 or "real money" I'd have been more compelled.

I don't believe that it is karma that made the other girl take advantage of me. I've done so many more helpful things to my long-term girls that are above and beyond what any P4P partner should be expected to do that I'm way on the good side of the karma scale.

I think the "grey zone" factor is a big part of it. It seems like a real cool place to be (and it can be) but it also has its complications.
 
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