The Manhattan "Underground Scene" has definitvely gone way downhill after a very brief "hot period". Elswhere is cyberspace, a discussion started when someone blamed the promoters. While out of respect for the privacy of that venue I won't repost the discussion, it started with a guy basically blaming the promoters, and asking "Is underground still underground? Does anybody still care about a perv on a budget? In the meantime I resort to cheaper alternatives til some the inflationary tendencies get under control."
I don't have any compunctions about reposting my response, though:
I actually think there's something slighlty different at work here. I
think what might be more of the problem than the "promoter end" is the "dancer end", but it's a double edged sword.
Not all that long ago, the underground was the undeground, blow jobs were $30 or $40 lap and wall dances were $5, etc.
But everyone wanted more "mainstream" (read whatever racial, etc. connotations you want into that) girls, so they were recruited from the mainstream clubs. At the same time, mainstream guys were recruited, who were used to paying $200 to $300 for an hour of FS at some incall spot (as N2N would call tehm "The UG guys"). The result was that not only did these girls ask and get substantially more money, but even the decent looking "underground girls" who had previously been "happy" (let's just accept that euphamism - whether it was really "happy" or just "accepting of" or whatever) were now asking the same prices (I think one potential "milestone" was when the Japanese girls started getting $80 for blowjobs).
So, you used to be able to go "someplace" spend $40 or $50 for
entrance and unlimitted VIP usage, get a bunch of laps and 3 trips to the VIP for "various activities" for another $130 to $150, and feel like you had a wild night for under $200. Now, I think by the time you're in the door, get a drink, 2 laps and a VIP, you're at the same amount (i.e. around $200 total). As a result, I think possibly a bunch of guys are wondering why they paid $200 for some mediocre sex for 15 minutes in a semi-public room, when they could have gone to some incall, gotten a private room, a shower, much better sex (2 pops, etc). So, I think that's what's stopping a bunch of the guys (in addition, I think that a bunch of guys are seeing the same girls for "private sessions" for not much more than the same girls want for 15 minutes in the VIP).
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think it's the promoters and
*their* pricing schemes which have altered the market, but the rapid rise in the dancer's prices which have squeezed their own "gold egg laying gooses" a little too tightly. Personally, I've been finding tha the VFM quotient (value for money) of the sexual services provided by MANY of the girls to be lacking (i.e. they think that for $80 they should give a covered, jackhammer BJ, and theguy should be happy if it lasts 10 minutes). Compare this to incall places where the girls get $90 to $150 of the fee, and spend a complete hour of service with some "real" artificial affection thrown in.
Of course, this is a generalization, and there are girls who spend
much longer in the VIP without complaining, etc (they certainly have with me), but I think those girls are becoming the minority. I also think that this is a "vicious cycle", and you see a lot of girls
either making a few bucks and bolting the spot for the night, or
siting in the dressing room and complaining about the guys. I know that i've heard a bunch of girls who really haven't been around the "more upscale" places too long at all complaining that they wouldnt go to any events in Brooklyn anymore because all the "broke asses" wanted BJs for $40. I think if they aren't careful, they may end up with only places like that left to go to.
And I really don't think there are enough "higher end guys" who will both go to "underground spots" and "VIP" at those spots to "go around" and populate all the events. I think the promoters are working harder and harder, and the girls are getting either smarter or lazier, depending on how you look at it, and which girls we're talking about.
I don't have any compunctions about reposting my response, though:
I actually think there's something slighlty different at work here. I
think what might be more of the problem than the "promoter end" is the "dancer end", but it's a double edged sword.
Not all that long ago, the underground was the undeground, blow jobs were $30 or $40 lap and wall dances were $5, etc.
But everyone wanted more "mainstream" (read whatever racial, etc. connotations you want into that) girls, so they were recruited from the mainstream clubs. At the same time, mainstream guys were recruited, who were used to paying $200 to $300 for an hour of FS at some incall spot (as N2N would call tehm "The UG guys"). The result was that not only did these girls ask and get substantially more money, but even the decent looking "underground girls" who had previously been "happy" (let's just accept that euphamism - whether it was really "happy" or just "accepting of" or whatever) were now asking the same prices (I think one potential "milestone" was when the Japanese girls started getting $80 for blowjobs).
So, you used to be able to go "someplace" spend $40 or $50 for
entrance and unlimitted VIP usage, get a bunch of laps and 3 trips to the VIP for "various activities" for another $130 to $150, and feel like you had a wild night for under $200. Now, I think by the time you're in the door, get a drink, 2 laps and a VIP, you're at the same amount (i.e. around $200 total). As a result, I think possibly a bunch of guys are wondering why they paid $200 for some mediocre sex for 15 minutes in a semi-public room, when they could have gone to some incall, gotten a private room, a shower, much better sex (2 pops, etc). So, I think that's what's stopping a bunch of the guys (in addition, I think that a bunch of guys are seeing the same girls for "private sessions" for not much more than the same girls want for 15 minutes in the VIP).
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think it's the promoters and
*their* pricing schemes which have altered the market, but the rapid rise in the dancer's prices which have squeezed their own "gold egg laying gooses" a little too tightly. Personally, I've been finding tha the VFM quotient (value for money) of the sexual services provided by MANY of the girls to be lacking (i.e. they think that for $80 they should give a covered, jackhammer BJ, and theguy should be happy if it lasts 10 minutes). Compare this to incall places where the girls get $90 to $150 of the fee, and spend a complete hour of service with some "real" artificial affection thrown in.
Of course, this is a generalization, and there are girls who spend
much longer in the VIP without complaining, etc (they certainly have with me), but I think those girls are becoming the minority. I also think that this is a "vicious cycle", and you see a lot of girls
either making a few bucks and bolting the spot for the night, or
siting in the dressing room and complaining about the guys. I know that i've heard a bunch of girls who really haven't been around the "more upscale" places too long at all complaining that they wouldnt go to any events in Brooklyn anymore because all the "broke asses" wanted BJs for $40. I think if they aren't careful, they may end up with only places like that left to go to.
And I really don't think there are enough "higher end guys" who will both go to "underground spots" and "VIP" at those spots to "go around" and populate all the events. I think the promoters are working harder and harder, and the girls are getting either smarter or lazier, depending on how you look at it, and which girls we're talking about.