The Best Ever!!!

[wimpy]

Re: Re: Re: Wimpy

Originally posted by occasionalhobbyist


In 86-present, what's wrong with Brett or Schmidt?

After 1986 Brett it 300 only twice through 1993. He did have two years where he was 290. But definately nothing that would make him great in that era. Can't compare his stats from 87-93 to the last seven years with Chipper.

Schmidt only played till 89 and in his final two years he played about 160 games. If I remember I believe he retired during the 1989 season.

 

[wimpy]

Originally posted by Lemurrush
At last, a subject I can flex my muscle on. All through high school, I studied/planned to be a sabermetrician (and, here's my first audacious statement: if you don't know what that is, you probably shouldn't be posting in this thread)
1B: Lou Gehrig - ok…only average to slightly above average defensively, but you can't ignore the stats. Plus, Ruth had Gehrig behind him, so there were more pitches to hit - who did Gehrig have behind him? Lazzeri? Meusel? Combs?
Runner up: Jimmie Foxx…and who did HE have hitting behind him? Stats are comparable to Gehrig's - but Gehrig has a few more championships

Lemur

During Gehrig's era there was Jimmie Foxx, who had a pretty good player in front of him named Al Simmons. Career 334 avg and 300 Hrs.

But Bill Terry of the NY Giants is overlooked. From 1926-1933 was the best hitter in the NL. He finished with a 341 avg.

 

[GameBoy]

Originally posted by wimpy


During Gehrig's era there was Jimmie Foxx, who had a pretty good player in front of him named Al Simmons. Career 334 avg and 300 Hrs.

Ah - but in front of him means very little...that's the point. It's who hits AFTER you that matters (i.e., you'd prefer to not pitch to the guy, so you pitch around him, and get to the guy after him) - thus, guys like Simmons and Ruth BENEFITTED from having Foxx and Gehrig behind them ...

Lemur

 

[wimpy]

APBBA Baseball. Was the greatest for me. All the players for all the years. I used to get news letters about the different years. Spent many winters playing that game. I guess kids have paystation these days. They can't imagine the fun ,pretending to be Lindsey Nelson calling an APBBA Baseball game between the 27 Yankees and the 39 Yankees.

 

[Ozzy]

first basemen get no respect..........

No Big Mac.... guess there's no respect for his almost 600 HR's.


Orlando Cepeda (the pot head).

Cecil Cooper

Tony Perez

Keith Hernandez

George Scott



and what about a guy who hit 504 HR's 1917 RBI's and over 3200 hits? a few gold gloves...... EDDIE MURRAY?

 

[GameBoy]

Originally posted by Ozzy
Lemur... i agree with pretty much everything you said..... Strat-O-Matic !!!!! if they had just made the legends cards advanced like they did the players of the late 70's early 80's (the two sided cards?)... i'd be playing it now.

Oh...but they do...1920, 1927, 1930, 1940, 1946, 1950, and 1954-present are ALL double-sided...

my friends and i used to nag one of our parents to drive out to glen-head LI (home of strat-o-matic) just to go and get the new cards a month before they were released to the public. you might say we were junkies at 12 or 13 yrs old.

I still go every year - scary bunch of people there...damn, they make most of us (yes, even OETT) look normal...

when Sadaharu Oh plays in a stadium with a fence deeper than 270 down the line... i'll respect him.

LOL - fair enuff...

Honus Wagner ... better than yount but he played so long ago and it's hard to judge what some of these guys would have done against even slightly more modern pitching (against the curve ball post 1920 or so). the same could be said of cobb except for the true story you spoke of.... (anyone can hit a HR). so cobb is my exception.

But, that's the point - you cannot put them in a vacuum, and assume they'd ALL face the same pitching, etc...just compare their average, etc...to the league average - determine how much above their peers they were. Wagner TOWERS over Yount that way...

musial was known for a strong arm and his hitting over shadowed his fielding.

No...his fielding was rarely that good -- SOM time...he pretty much always vascillated around a 2(0)e6...sometimes a -1 arm...

Barry, and I DO dislike him too...but, up until say, 2 years ago...Barry was ROUTINELY a 1(-3)e4 or so...there's no comparison...

And, realize this - by the time Stan was Barry's age, he'd already been playing 1B for 5 years. That's all you need to know to see how great a fielder he was...yes...he returned to the OF towards the end of his career, but, for his career, Musial topped 10 assists from the outfield 6 times, Bonds has done it 8 times. Bonds has played almost 2300 games in 17 years, all in the outfield; Musial's outfield games total only 1900 games over 23 years...someone who was THAT great, wouldn't have played so infrequently...

Lemur

Lemur

 

[wimpy]

Players today

I have always wondered about before 1940 in Baseball. I think the greatest players came from the 1950-1960 era. You had great pitching and great hitting. My knock on the early days were much like today. The pitching sucked. Most pitchers started between 40-50 games per year. I mean Cy Young was great...511 wins but he did loose 312 games. Figure this he had double digit losses in every year he pitched except for his rookie year and his last two years. Also, while that era had Young, Johnson,Alexander pitching there were some bad pitchers also.

 

[Hotpuppy]

Originally posted by goodtimes
On another topic, I am truly a Yankee hater, but I am tired of hearing how the Yankees buy their players. What other team in baseball can their nucleus is a product of their farm system: Soriano, Jeter, Posada, Petite, Rivera, Williams, Spencer, Johnson. Granted it does help to have the capability of buying Clemens, Giambi and others, but the organization has been built around their own talent.

Excellent point, I posted this in an old thread that had several Yankee detractors whining the old whine. However, substitute Mussina for Clemens, as Roger was traded for not bought( albeit they were able to give him a huge contract).
take care
HP

BTW I am stunned by the baseball acumen demonstrated here, and from what I can see the complete lack of flames.

 

[GameBoy]

Re: first basemen get no respect..........

Originally posted by Ozzy
No Big Mac.... guess there's no respect for his almost 600 HR's.

Well - you were the one lambasting ARod for his strikeouts...

And, the others you mentioned - sorry...none of them (not even Murray) compares to Gehrig, Foxx, Greenberg or Bill Terry...Murray's stats are impressive; but they're the result of YEARS of playing...prorate Gehrig or Foxx or Greenberg out to the number of games, or at-bats Murray got, and you'll be astonished.

Truth is - you can't complain about what they did the baseball the last 10 years...complain about the last 25 years...ever since free agency and incentive-laden contracts, we've seen more people sticking around longer to break records...Cobb didn't have to do that. His average "slipped" to .320-something, and he basically decided it was time to quit

At his rate, until Rickey hits under .100, he'll still consider himself a valuable member of any team...Rickey's gotta be Rickey, I guess...

Lemur

 

[wimpy]

Barry Bonds

He will play for at least for more years. So he does have a shot at breaking Aarons record. And when you look at it..Wat made Aaron great was consistent homerun hitting. Never hit more than 48. Up until last year Bonds was the same way. You can hate Bonds for the attitude( I do) but the man is the best player of my Generation.

 

[wimpy]

Re: first basemen get no respect..........

Originally posted by Ozzy
No Big Mac.... guess there's no respect for his almost 600 HR's.

Why,Big mac gets little respect. Injured often...Lousy fielder...Average hitter.

Palamiro...The best fielding first baseman of his time. Excellent hitter with power. He has the sweetest swing I have every seen...So effortless. To think the Cubs traded him because they thought Mark grace was better.

 

[Ozzy]

it was just that i saw so few first basemen listed. most of those guys i listed were as good if not better than palmiero. Cooper and Murray were for sure.

imagine if mac wasn't oft injured?

 

[Ozzy]

speaking of 3b from 86-present.... what about boggs?

 

[Ozzy]

wanna bet?

Originally posted by robnotbob
See, baseball is still the nat'l pastime..you can't do this with football.

"Hey wait...the all time best right tackle is..."

The best QB was (and pamala RI/miami is gonna love this....) Dan Marino.

Montana wasn't really close and i don't care if he won 20 rings.

 

[GameBoy]

Originally posted by Hotpuppy
BTW I am stunned by the baseball acumen demonstrated here, and from what I can see the complete lack of flames.

Ah - but there's a simple reason for this...

We are men.
Baseball players are men.
Men understand men.
Escorts are women.
Men do not understand women.

So...I can make a statement like "Ryne Sandberg is the second best 2B of all time" and even Ozzy (yes, EVEN Ozzy), thinks to himself, "well...Lemur probably has good reasons to think that." So he respects that, and answers rationally.

If I make a statement that so-and-so gives the best BBBJ, it's DEFINITE food for feasting. Hence, I don't make statements like that

Lemur

 

[Stecchino]

Re: wanna bet?

Originally posted by Ozzy
The best QB was (and pamala RI/miami is gonna love this....) Dan Marino.

Montana wasn't really close and i don't care if he won 20 rings.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Comparing Montana to a guy who couldn't even get his team into the playoffs half his career. (ya gotta love it!!)

PS- Marino wasn't even Phil Simms, never mind Joe Cool.....or Elway and Young for that matter.

 

[Ozzy]

a jet fan.

 

[Stecchino]

Originally posted by Ozzy
a jet fan.

Uhhh....no.

 

[SkellyChamp]

Server at work was down all day and I'm too damn tired to read all that was written (at least now) but

As I hate the DH I don't consider it but if you have to have one he had to be predominatley a DH.

In this topic I don't consider anyway who hasn't played at least 13 years (the "DiMaggio" rule). That's why no Addie Joss and Thurman doesn't qualify and neither does A-Rod (yet).

The best ever is not based on potential (A-Rod, Nomar) or what could have been (Mantle with healthy knees). It's how they did perform.

Lemurrush - Koufax was great but you can't use the word prolonged in talking about his dominance. 4 years at best.

Oz - Schmidt and Matthews are indeed mirror images of each other but Schmidt gets the nod because I beleive his defense was far superior. And Matthews had Aaron.

Intangibles and smarts are what win the games. I wouldn't necessarily say Hernandez was the best fielding first baseman in terms of range and arm but he was the best in my opinion because he was the smartest. Always positioned properly, always thinking, knew what he was going to do with the ball when he got it. Never made a bad decision.

Intangibles - advancing the runner, putting the ball in play. Sacrificing yourself for the sake of the team is what wins games over the long haul.

That being said Reggie is my all-time favorite ballplayer (yes a damn Yankee) and he is not even a blip on the screen of the all-time best. But what a money ballplayer.

I'll stick with my list, but would love to have a team made up of anyone elses list.

As I've started to hallucinate........


Oh yeah - I did like 'Hos and Throws.

 

[pswope]

Originally posted by Lemurrush


Ah - but there's a simple reason for this...

We are men.
Baseball players are men.
Men understand men.
Escorts are women.
Men do not understand women.

So...I can make a statement like "Ryne Sandberg is the second best 2B of all time" and even Ozzy (yes, EVEN Ozzy), thinks to himself, "well...Lemur probably has good reasons to think that." So he respects that, and answers rationally.

If I make a statement that so-and-so gives the best BBBJ, it's DEFINITE food for feasting. Hence, I don't make statements like that Lemur

Ahhhhh,great post. Just add,that unlike working girls,we don''t get delusions over Musial vs Bonds.


Instead of joining this thread,I'm going to draft a Private Placement Memorandum to raise funds to start a downmarket Sports/Topless Bar(not Scores).
We can call it:

4 Boobs.


I confess I played more stratomatic than spin the bottle when I was 13,ergo I became a whorehound)