Review: Passion of the Christ
- Thread starter One Eyed Trouser Trout
- Start date
I have not read most of the preceeding posts. That being said I'll just comment on what my oppinion is. My background is catholic school up till high schhol. Uniforms and all! Even with my formal religious education (admittedly many many moons ago) although there were things I was able to say word for word because I do have some of my memories of catisism classes still intact after all these years. I'm admittedly a non praticing catholic that does have (even though somewhat cloudy) a remedial knowlege of the catholic religion. The movie I pretty much knew what the events would be as I'm certain the majority of people who have seen it also did. I can understand why some people might be boycotting this because they feel that some people may take the movie the wrong way and fear of religious reprisals and all. I thik the biggest beef the Jewish sect had with this was that it showed very clearly that they were the ones to insist upon the crusifixion on Christ. To my knowlege the movie stuck pretty well clear to the scriptures (the ones I learned in Catholic school) To my admittedly limited knowlege of the Jewish religion what I do know is that they do not believe that Jesus was nothing more than a prophet and definatley not the son of God. Personally I avoid these convos like the plague. Lets face it there are a number of people with very strong oppinions on both sides of the fence. I personally found the movie EXCELLENT! It brought me to tears when they were flogging and whipping him. I think what Mel Gibson brought out was that even thoug hJesus was supposed to be the son of God he was still in fact a man. No other movie or show I've watched on this subject made this as clear to me as this movie. HE was jsu ta man, a man that endurred unspeakable acts because he spoke what was in his heart and mind. I can understand why some people may boycott the movie. Not being Jewish myself I am admittedly very ignorant to the Jewish Doctrines, these issues did not faze me. I don't hold the Jewish population responsible for the death of Christ. In fact I am quite certain there is much much more to the story that we may never be privy to during our stay here on Earth. While I'm not a religious person I do believe in good/bad ying/yang. I personally think that reguardless of what you may have done in this life , if your heart is good and just as I feel I myself am a generally good person (Lord knows I've got plenty of sins to account for) I think that when my time comes I'll be ok. And if not.....then I'll be psrtying up a storm in hell!
All other issues aside I felt this movie was both moving, informative, I think Mel Gibson did a superb job and I think the actor (who's name slips my mind at the moment) who played Jesus did an exceptional job of getting accross the pain and suffering as well as the fact that in reality and at that moment he was really justa man.
Discliamer: I by no means wish to get into a relig debate. I'm a firm believer of to each his own, live and let live and to each his own. In all honesty I don't even knowwhat my true beliefs are. I will say this. I do think that there is a power greater than me out there. I also believe that there are no permanent free rides in this world. I believe if you do good , good comes back at ya. If your a scandalous person I belive tha twill also come back to you in spades.
All other issues aside I felt this movie was both moving, informative, I think Mel Gibson did a superb job and I think the actor (who's name slips my mind at the moment) who played Jesus did an exceptional job of getting accross the pain and suffering as well as the fact that in reality and at that moment he was really justa man.
Discliamer: I by no means wish to get into a relig debate. I'm a firm believer of to each his own, live and let live and to each his own. In all honesty I don't even knowwhat my true beliefs are. I will say this. I do think that there is a power greater than me out there. I also believe that there are no permanent free rides in this world. I believe if you do good , good comes back at ya. If your a scandalous person I belive tha twill also come back to you in spades.
It occured to me today that this movie, or more accurately the response to it, will be a great metric in determining just how far Jews have come in being accepted as equals in the United States (and indeed, the rest of the world). I tend to think that it, at worst, will act as a magnifying glass for anti Semitism that already exists. Therefore, the reaction will be a good indication of the amount of lingering anti Semitism.
(I expect the reaction will be far, far worse in Europe than here.)
(I expect the reaction will be far, far worse in Europe than here.)
Europeans don't need Mel Gibson's help to be anti-semites. And I don't really think this movie is anti-semitic anyhow (although I still have to go see it - but judging from what I've read).
I think the current round of Euro anti-semitism has less to do with the old Christ-killer stuff, and more to do with the new Israel-the-Super-Enemy stuff. It's the left there that frightens me even more than the right.
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I think the current round of Euro anti-semitism has less to do with the old Christ-killer stuff, and more to do with the new Israel-the-Super-Enemy stuff. It's the left there that frightens me even more than the right.
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While I don't dispute that anti-semitism exists in Europe, what is commonly described by Jewish-americans and supporters of Israel as "European anti-semitism" is often simply a more equitable and balanced approach toward the Israeli - Palestinian crisis.
Due to the intense pro-Israel lobbying, PR and media influence in the US, americans have commonly come to view any position that is in any way critical of Israel or supportive of the Palestinian position as anti-semetic. Things are simply not the same in Europe and while there is some anti-semitism, there are also a lot of people who don't give a shit about ethnicity or religion and are simply expressing an unbiased opinion that the Israelis don't happen to like.
--wsb
Due to the intense pro-Israel lobbying, PR and media influence in the US, americans have commonly come to view any position that is in any way critical of Israel or supportive of the Palestinian position as anti-semetic. Things are simply not the same in Europe and while there is some anti-semitism, there are also a lot of people who don't give a shit about ethnicity or religion and are simply expressing an unbiased opinion that the Israelis don't happen to like.
--wsb
I'm not talking about people who have an equitable and balanced approach. I'm talking about people who firebomb synagogues, physically attack people on the basis of looking Jewish, or desecrate Jewish cemetaries. That kind of stuff happens in Europe at a MUCH MUCH greater rate than in America.
The left (particularly in Europe) really needs to come to grips with the fact that by portraying Israel not just as a state who's policies they don't agree with but as THE GREATEST EVIL IN THE WORLD TODAY (which is often how it gets expressed) they end up playing into some very very nasty stuff.
The same goes, in my opinion, for the European left's Anti-Americanism. It's one thing to say you don't agree with American government policy. It's another to claim that every single thing that's wrong with the world eminates from Washington.
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The left (particularly in Europe) really needs to come to grips with the fact that by portraying Israel not just as a state who's policies they don't agree with but as THE GREATEST EVIL IN THE WORLD TODAY (which is often how it gets expressed) they end up playing into some very very nasty stuff.
The same goes, in my opinion, for the European left's Anti-Americanism. It's one thing to say you don't agree with American government policy. It's another to claim that every single thing that's wrong with the world eminates from Washington.
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I think Europeans hate Israel so much partly because it represents their own failure.
Had it not been for absolutely rabid anti-semitism in Europe in the 1930's-40's there wouldn't have even been an Israel. Because most Jews wouldn't have supported it. Zionism would have remained the obscure tendency it was in the 1920's, shunned by the Orthodox for being too secular, by the Reform for being too religious, and by the socialists for being too nationalist. It took cattle cars and gas-chambers for people to come to the conclusion that they had to get the fuck out of Europe (and later the Arab countries) and go arm themselves in a ghetto somewhere. Because that's what Israel is. The armed ghetto of old-world Jews, absolutely determined not to be annihilated again.
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Had it not been for absolutely rabid anti-semitism in Europe in the 1930's-40's there wouldn't have even been an Israel. Because most Jews wouldn't have supported it. Zionism would have remained the obscure tendency it was in the 1920's, shunned by the Orthodox for being too secular, by the Reform for being too religious, and by the socialists for being too nationalist. It took cattle cars and gas-chambers for people to come to the conclusion that they had to get the fuck out of Europe (and later the Arab countries) and go arm themselves in a ghetto somewhere. Because that's what Israel is. The armed ghetto of old-world Jews, absolutely determined not to be annihilated again.
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Nope, I don't disagree with AE's statement generally, although I don't think the majority of Europeans view Israel as "the greatest evil in the world today". They would reserve that title for Dubya. Moreover, the Israelis certainly have no problem portraying the Palestinians as "the greatest evil..." so perhaps a little "do unto others..." would be in order.
--wsb
--wsb
People may not like the post about Israel as an armed ghetto, or think it's too harsh. But I think it's true. There's a reason 90% of European Jews and 100% of Middle Eastern Jews stayed in Israel despite the constant threat of violence. It's not because they were all rabid Kahane-loving settlers*. It's because to go back to where they came from meant (and still means for Middle Eastern Jews) serious persecution.
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*Those fruitcakes really CAN go back to where they came from, which is usually America. But they represent a small proportion of Israelis.
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*Those fruitcakes really CAN go back to where they came from, which is usually America. But they represent a small proportion of Israelis.
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