Open note to one of the boys........

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#21
In all truthfullness, the only facts the girls really dwell on are their safety and the hygiene of their clients. Although many of these girls are reccomended by us, we do not know each other (except that Carl M likes Pastrami), our looks our weight or our hygiene. Being clean helps lead to a good session (going home to shower before next encounter).
To quote the famous One Eyed Trouser Trout see ya later y'all.
 

Carl M

Hanging by a thread
#22
Correct Oswald!

If it walks and breaths it can TALK!!!

Hey Tucker are you saying I have bad breath!!

[Edited by Carl M on 03-23-2001 at 02:27 PM]
 
#23
tucker.......you know why....


though i never ask or talk about anyone.......many seem to enjoy asking and talking about me, SHIT a few have even claimed to be me......problem is....

they ain't as good as me.



:cool:
 
#28
Re: Mr. RobNotBob One Eyed and Mr. OZ


Mr. One Eyed Trouser Trout--- where the fuck did you pick up that y'all shit. Too many trailer parks in the south?

[/B]


And that ain't the worst of it...if her daddy don't know your daddy, and your daddy's daddy, you don't stand much a chance unless you're a guy much different that I am.

Make sense?
 
#29
Originally posted by HornDogBuddah
OETT: Can we assume that the person in question posts here but does not allow direct email responses to his posts? Otherwise, why don't you simply send him a private email message and warn him off directly?

Also, while we're on the subject of public service announcements, how about outing yourself a little -- how is it that you have a) access to the particulars of this situation and b) have factual knowledge that other providers have circulated/shared information about this individual?
First question response is yes. Second is then N/A.

Quick summary to third inquiry....I've been around and got a few friends.
 
#30
Bad Behavior Escorts

Unfortunately the girl gossip groups DO exist and not always for their own safety as they claim. I peeked at the Los Angeles private girls board and all they did was list the names and personal info of their BEST clients in hopes of scaring the other girls away from seeing them if contacted. I saw the personal info of several of my better clients and it churned my stomach to know this was going on.

I frown on such scuzzy behavior which is why I have clearly listed on my site "Do not talk to me about other escorts and do not talk about me to them" and I also refuse to accept or give referrals out to other escorts. The point is I don't want contact with them. Since so many do lie, I cannot put faith in their warnings and must instead rely on my own screening process and my gut instinct. I wouldn't trust them to warn if someone was bad because they view others as competition and don't really want to help anyone else out. :(

Sorry to hear that Spotny had his SS# and home address invaded. Unless you had hurt her or ripped her off in some way, she had no right to invade YOUR privacy. Some girls just like to show off how clever they (think) they are...If only she worked so hard at passing the Bar Exam...:) LOL!

http://www.losangeles-massage.com
 
#31
Originally posted by Talisa
Unfortunately the girl gossip groups DO exist and not always for their own safety as they claim.
it's interesting how many parallels there are to the clients-only groups. however, one difference is that the escorts-only groups do not aid and abet violence against clients. then again, maybe they do?

I peeked at the Los Angeles private girls board and all they did was list the names and personal info of their BEST clients in hopes of scaring the other girls away from seeing them if contacted. I saw the personal info of several of my better clients and it churned my stomach to know this was going on....
this is not unusual in the world of finance. it is what Charles Keating of Lincoln Savings and Loan claimed (to greatly oversimplify his story). the federal courts provided a certain degree of vindication for his position.

but, at least the escorts are trying to keep the clients for themselves -- rather than destroy them, as is done on wall street. something along these lines happened to Ross Perot. a number of wall street firms convinced him to put up money to save Dupont {the investment firm, not the chemical company}, and promised him to give the firm 'breathing room' if he did. as soon as Perot sank his own money into proping up Dupont, the same firms organized a 'bear raid' to send Dupont under, and then pocketed the assets (ie, the money Perot had just put up). Joseph P. Kennedy, later the first head of the SEC, was famous for this kind of maneuver.

... I have clearly listed on my site "Do not talk to me about other escorts and do not talk about me to them"
when i read that, i thought to myself: ~wow -- my kind of woman!~

... and I also refuse to accept or give referrals out to other escorts. The point is I don't want contact with them .... {I} instead rely on my own screening process and my gut instinct.
i am the same way. i try to avoid reading reviews. whether sincere or not, i don't find them helpful.

in the social sciences, there is a term, 'field dependence'. it is a measure of how much people are influenced by the opinions, perceptions, etc, of others around them. a famous advertising campaign had just three words: "It's a Sony." the more field dependent the person, the more those three words would suffice to determine his or her purchasing decision.

some people, by contrast, are relatively field independent. while it is true that "no {one} is an island", still, some of us are less influenced than others by what books, movies, tv shows, museum exhibits, etc, are the biggest bestsellers. some prefer, for example, independent foreign films. (hmmm)

but, there is also 'negative field dependence'. that is the people who won't go to any hollywood films, or watch any television, etc. i think these may be the unhappiest people of all.

so, i decide on an escort based upon her pictures (i admit it ;)), the way her site is presented, and what she posts on the boards. what is most important is the implicit 'attitude' expressed by each of these three sources of data about an escort.

what seems clear to me from your 'net presentation is that you are a woman of character and independence who shows the respect for others that she expects from them.


[Edited by guy catelli on 03-25-2001 at 09:16 AM]
 
#32
Talisa: I'm sorry that you have had such bad experiences dealing with other escorts.

I never had that problem, myself. Of course, I wasn't all that friendly with many of them. There were one or two I knew via email and I did a couple of referals. I never felt like trying to keep a client to myself or anything like that, though.

I didn't do the gossiping for safety's sake, though. Mostly, I did it just for the fun and companionship. When we gossiped about a client, it wasn't about his real name or where he lived or anything, it was more "Hey, this guy likes me to call him Daddy. Oh, you, too?"

Everybody gossips about their clients. It's not meant to hurt people or get anything over on them - it's just a way of socializing. I know that guys gossip about the girls, and not just because they need to know how good her service is - just because it's interesting.
 
#34
Good Grief, is it That Bad?

my goodness, I am glad that here in Texas we have some pretty great girls who ARE looking out for each other. I have found this to be the case in most cities I have toured. It is a shame that the girls in CA are so horrible--it wrecks it for everyone. I guess I will not be contacting you if anyone gives your name as a referral. Can't say I understand your thinking, as it's a safety issue first and foremost--but I respect your right to think what you want.

Just so you know...you can always contact me for a referral, should you change your viewpoint.

Amanda :)
 
#35
all of you ladies know that i am in love with each of you, but ...

in a perfect world, there would be a fixed and impermeable boundary between: 1) just-for-the-fun-of-it 'harmless' gossip; 2) legitimate concerns about escort safety; and 3) malicious and untrue defamation (no matter how sincerely believed by the writer of it).

however, as has just recently been demonstrated here at UG, there's a very slippery slope down which 1 can rapidly slide into 2, and just as quickly from there to 3.

the phenomenon of closed information networks is even more unfair when a client is challenged to explain "what's going on!?!"; yet, the questioner steadfastly refuses to specify even the nature of the rumor circulating about him.

nevertheless, this is less unfair than the situation where rumors are circulating about a client, and he doesn't even know the rumors exist, much less their content.

i've been the most vocal client on the internet in opposing client-only information loops, because at best they are juvenile, and at worst they cause severe harm to the innocent. and, under any circumstances, they are completely unreliable, just as, for example, raw FBI files are completely unreliable grab bags of gossip and innuendo.

the only point that has ever been scored against me, in this vein, ran along the lines of, ~what about escort-only lists?~ naively, i insisted these were justified on the grounds of escort safety. especially after recent events, i am no longer so naive.

{end of rant -- for now ;)}

[Edited by guy catelli on 03-26-2001 at 11:47 AM]
 
#36
Sorry, Guy...

I just meant that because I've not found the same problems with ladies. What Talisa points out about the girls in LA is not new. This has been heard before among some of my contemporaries. I don't know why...whether the competitiveness is just out of hand, or the blue skies and sandy beaches do it...LOL.

Sorry, I didn't mean to pinpoint LA as if they are the only ones who have nasty backstabbing bitches from hell. We know that's everywhere. It just seems to be more prevalent there.

A:)
 
#37
dear Miss Witherspoon,

i deleted the reference to LA. my main point is that if client-only loops are wrong because they tend to both distort rumors and magnify those distortions, then escort-only loops are wrong for the same reasons.

the incident referred to above, where 'harmless gossip' quickly became a 'safety issue', which, in turn, quickly became malicious defamation, did not originate from LA, as far as i can tell.

so, i don't think the problem with escort-only loops, per se, is "nasty backstabbing bitches from hell", just as i don't think the problem with client-only loops, per se, is nasty backstabbing {male} bitches from hell. the problem is the fact that the loop is closed -- period.

i am very familiar with the bizarre and unchallenged inaccuracies that these client-only closed loops inevitably foster -- including, believe it or not, misattributions of gender regarding escorts who are, in fact, incredibly feminine women!!!

so, to avoid Ozzy calling me "YFH!" (which would be accurate if i were not consistent about this), i have to point out that escort-only loops, for the same reasons, inevitably harm innocent people with wild distortions.

i am afraid this will embarrass you, but, as a matter of conscience, i must point out that you posted a highly favorable review of me as a client at the most courageous possible time to do so -- when i was being flamed into charcoal over my supporting the first outing of Gerald back in 1999. others wanted the matter handled in a closed loop (which would have been unfair to Gerald), open only to escorts -- and tbd! (now that that there is credible reason to believe that Gerald is a robber and rapist of escorts, and not just a sexual skip-thief, i think the equities have shifted somewhat.)

i only point this out because i think newcomers should know that you did what you felt was the honorable thing -- even knowing that you would take a lot of public heat for it.

but, even before then, i had paid you in-full at the time i booked an appointment for your first new york tour -- because i know an honest and well-intended person when i see one.

and, of course, i agree with your point that a client-requested referral is a different matter, just as any *applicant-requested* school or job recommendation is a different matter.

i'm only talking about information loops that are closed to the party or parties being discussed in the loop.

your fan forever,

guy
 
#38
Confidentiality Is A Priority

I agree with everything Guy posted above and would like to add these few comments;

1) I have known of an escort saying a particular client was good when he wasn't and she knew it.

2) I have known of escorts putting great clients on a "do not see" list because they wanted to keep the client to herself. Just because an escort says a client is bad, doesn't mean its true.

3) I have personally known of escorts to tell their more favored clients the real names of particular posters from the boards. ALL clients regardless of how obnoxious they are on the boards are entitled to an escort's confidentiality unless he did something bad to deserve being warned against but then again you cannot trust every escort to tell YOU the truth about the clients. For an escort to tell one of her client-buddies that the poster who post using the handle "A-Client" works at such and such place and his real name is such and such and he has a small penis and is impotent IS UNACCEPTABLE. How can we expect to be able to gain the necessary info we need to screen a client if escorts behave like that? Gossiping eventually gets out of hand and the info in the wrong hands can hurt a client.


While in theory to warn other escorts about a troublesome client is a good idea, in practice it doesn't work unless it is among 2 or 3 or 4 close friends who have earned each others trust. Its hard because some girls will get miffed about a bad review and make up a lie. Or in the case of the girl who got drunk and had unprotected sex with a client...he did not deserve to be outed. First, was he drunk too? If not then he doesn't care about his own health so how can he be expected to care about her? While I sympathize with her predicatment if she had not shown up for work drunk, it would not have happened.

4) George is not a client. He is a rapist and a thief and should be exposed publically for the safety of the girls. I also happen to know that George used the name of an escort who is no longer in the business as a referral thinking she could not be contacted. This ex-escort confused his identity with someone else and gave him the A-OK. So much for relying on another escort to verify a client.

I would not ask you to violate your client's privacy by confirming you saw him. I would not accept your validation over my own screening procedure. I would not want my privacy intruded upon by letting you know he had contacted me and wanted to see me. Nor would I want him telling you he saw me. I am a very private person.

I have had several clients in the past tell me about what a good friend he is with a particular escort and while in bragging mode, tell me the escorts real name i.e "Ellie Escort and I are really good friends, of course I call her by her real name Angela DelGado." This really bothers me because if Ellie Escort wanted me to know her real name, she would tell me now wouldn't she? I see a lot of lines blurred when escorts and clients begin to gossip and show off just how much they know about everybody else.



Talisa




[Edited by Talisa on 03-26-2001 at 11:47 PM]
 
#39
Amanda

I don't begrudge you for running your business as you see fit but I _choose_ not to take part in the referral process. Its not a process I am comfortable with being involved in and prefer my screening procedure which negates the value of a referral.

I don't care to know who a client has been with in the past. As I see it that is his personal business and not mine nor do I wish to know about it. With the internet, we are all so connected that this business does become a bit incestuous at times.

The only type of referral I have been involved in was with a client whom I just adored. Alas it became obvious I could not longer continue to see him and rather than set him lose in the sea of escorts to find someone, I first asked an escort whom I knew to be of the highest caliber if I may refer a dear valued client to her. (she does not advertise and works very privately thru client-referrals) She said yes and I told him about her and gave him her number.

I cannot control if a client of mine goes to you and gossips about me or tells you he saw me. All I can do is to live by the values I have set forth.

Also, I didn't start out with a bad view of the referral process. In fact I used to think it was a great idea until I saw how it was becoming abused.

And if you did call me for a referral, chances are I wouldn't remember who the client was unless he was a regular because I do not keep any records. The only way an escort is going to remember a client she saw once three or four years ago is the keep records and notes on him and since I don't do that, I would be of little help to you.


Talisa



[Edited by Talisa on 03-26-2001 at 11:53 PM]
 
#40
it is refreshing to see so many wonderfully outspoken women posting here at UG -- Val, Dawn, candie, K.S., Miss Witherspoon, and now Talisa.
Originally posted by Talisa
..... I have known of an escort saying a particular client was good when he wasn't and she knew it.
and what did she hope to gain? {ah, having read your intervening post, i see what happened: Gerald/George gave a reference of someone retired (who he perhaps assumed was unreachable), and, when she was contacted, she confused him with someone else and gave him a good referral. one's first reaction might be: ~what are the odds of that kind of mistake happening often?~ but, on reflection, it is just one more example of how totally unreliable these 'secret networks' (both client and escort) actually are. and for the same reason -- information that is not vetted by public comment is necessarily unreliable information.}
....For an escort to tell one of her client-buddies that the poster whose handle is A-Client .... has a small penis and is impotent IS UNACCEPTABLE.
that's just K.S.'s sense of humor; she doesn't really mean any harm. {guy running for cover.}
How can we expect to be able to gain the necessary info we need to screen a client if escorts behave like that?
seriously, that's a good question.
While in theory to warn other escorts about a troublesome client is a good idea, in practice it doesn't work unless it is among 2 or 3 or 4 close friends who have earned each others trust.
that is so true. and, i want to emphasize that, imo, the problem is not a few 'bad apples' in our barrel of clients and escorts. rather, the problem is 'systemic'. that is, there's an inherent trade-off between 'community' and 'confidentiality'. no matter what the context -- work, church, temple, school -- wherever there is 'community', 'confidentiality' applies only to the stuff that is 'boring'. anything you really wouldn't want everyone else to know is guaranteed to become a 'chip' in other peoples' game of 'i know a secret.'
...Its hard because some girls will get miffed about a bad review and make up a lie.
oh, if i had a dollar for every false thing that has been said about escorts by clients, i could comfortably retire.
.....I am a very private person.
i hear ya.
I have had several clients in the past tell me.... "Ellie Escort and I are really good friends, of course I call her by her real name Angela DelGado."
yeah, what's up with that? why do escorts want me to know their birth name -- especially since i've already become comfortable with recognizing them by their 'stage name'? i mean, did John Wayne look his friends square in the eye and say, "Call me 'Marion', pilgrim"? or, did Marilyn Monroe whisper breathlessly into JFK's ear, "Jack, you can call me 'Norma' "? :confused:

[Edited by guy catelli on 03-27-2001 at 09:18 AM]
 
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