One for the providers: Myth busted - Are you a cop?

[Thorn]

Bandid - If LE places an Ad on CL, you call it, make an appointment and show up, what more do they need? It is not black and white, there is a lot of grey.

Eddie,

The elements of a crime either exist or they don't.

If you make an appoint to meet someone and all that is present at the time of the offer is the promise of sex and a price from the same source - the provider [I'll rock your world for $200 roses], and you say nothing on your end when you make the agreement to meet [Can I see you at 7pm?], the prosecution has a VERY weak case.

Now, once you lay money down all that changes. Up until that point they have next to nothing.

So when a client enters a room he does not talk sex or money nor does he take his clothing off until the provider does something that would be very unprofessional for a law enforcement officer to do.

That is why April's bit of business works both ways. Why it assures the provider that the person she is dealing with is probably not law enforcement, it also assures the client that she isn't either.

Can you just see that on the witness stand in either direction?

That is why the vast majority of LE agencies have firm standing policies against their sting involved officers/agents acting in this manner. Which is precisely why folks that do such things look for the person on the other side of this equation to act in this manner before they commit to activity that would be construed to be an illegal act.

 

[EddyBearNY]

Eddie,

The elements of a crime either exist or they don't.

If you make an appoint to meet someone and all that is present at the time of the offer is the promise of sex and a price from the same source - the provider [I'll rock your world for $200 roses], and you say nothing on your end when you make the agreement to meet [Can I see you at 7pm?], the prosecution has a VERY weak case.

Buy calling an ad for a provider, you are showing implicitnesses. Yes, the scenerio you presented above would be a weak case, but you will still be arrested, if you showed up for a scheduled appointment. It would then be in a Judge's hand.

Smoke and mirrors don't work when dealing with the legal system.

 

[Thorn]

Well you might not have to hold your breath too long. I think I might visit Adriana next month...help her out with her penis checks. Besides the weather has been sucking HARD in Florida!! Do I see a strip club outting on the horizon? I get the bartender!! (only if shes hot!!)

warning: total thread jack set for on

Note one: I see Adriana's calendar fulling up rapidly if that is to be the case.

Strip-club outing, most assuredly. Hogging you, at least once, to myself this time though.

Note two: You got them all, dancers and bartenders alike, hot or not. Something that if I could figure out how you did it and was able to put it in a bottle I'd be a multi-millionaire.

Thread jack set back to off

 

[Thorn]

Buy calling an ad for a provider, you are showing implicitnesses. Yes, the scenerio you presented above would be a weak case, but you will still be arrested, if you showed up for a scheduled appointment. It would then be in a Judge's hand.

Smoke and mirrors don't work when dealing with the legal system.

Circumstantial evidence. In most states circumstantial evidence, on its own, is not sufficient to meet the level of probable cause in disorderly persons offenses.

No probable cause, no warrant of arrest. No warrant of arrest, no holding past a reasonable time frame and certainly no arrest paperwork or a trial. Just an incident report stating that so and so was held non-custodially for purposes of identification incident to an investigation and released.

The only thing that could trip one up under those circumstances would be 1) the suspected client opening his mouth and admitting a criminal offense was taking place; 2) the provider opening her mouth and admitting a criminal offense was taking place; 3) the officer(s) lying and stating they had witnessed a criminal offense taking place.

The first and second obviously have to do with the intestinal fortitude of the client and provider, the last with the honesty of the officers involved.

There are many people who can't stand the direct laser like light the police shine on them and give them precisely what they want to get it turned off. It is the right and duty of the police to use that light to penetrate lies being told to them. It is a very powerful tool and in the hands of a competent law enforcement investigator absolutely devastating against people with little experience with it. It fades rapidly when used on people who have become "system savvy".

As for honest cops. You can always get a bad one but the odds are with you. Eddy, in this day and age officers have a lot more reasons to remain constant and forthright in the application of their profession. Forfeiture of high five figure and up salaries and lifetime pensions of 50+% starting after 20 years are too high a price to pay for getting caught lying to convict petty offense violators.

Not worth the risk. Bright officers know this and also know the probability of getting another chance further down the road is just too good not to make it the higher percentage and far smarter play.

 

[Gmac]

I while back I picked up a BSW near the Pan Am hotel. She was scared I was LE(I get this alot) and told me to whip out my stick. I did and she was still nervous. She asked to touch it to make sure. Once we finished that I rode around for a little looking for a spot to park. I see way back a cop car cruising. Didnt think much of it and kept going. Turned a corner and found a spot and we got down to business. Not even 3-4 min later the cop car goes zooming past us, kind of scared me. After a few min more I start thinking its not best to continue where we were. I start up and make a couple turns to go drop her off and sure enough the cop car is right behind me and lights are lite up and flashing. BSW freaks out giving me her real name and some personal info. I pull over but the cop car just sat there with the lights flashing not doing anything. After a min or two he make a turn and just leaves. To this day I have no idea why he didnt do anything. Was it because he didnt see a crime in progress? I dont know.

Also a question. When I have a provider come over to my house(I know not the best choice but I have never had a problem yet(I know)) before we discuss anything I ask them to prove they are not LE. usually a flash or a touch will do it. That sounds like enough from this thread, am I mistaken?

 

[Slinky Bender]

What probably happened was one of two things: they ran your plates to see if ther was anything outstanding to hassle you on and came up with nothing, or while they were pulling you over they got a radio call for a something more important (like a midnite 2 for 1 sale at Dunkin Donuts).

 

[Thorn]

...they got a radio call for a something more important (like a midnite 2 for 1 sale at Dunkin Donuts).

I'll make you pay for that.

 

[IRVINGTON29]

Whores can come to your house.

Decoys can't come in your house and risk getting hurt. Actually it is safer if a whore comes to your house because you can scope her out before anything go down. Sometimes the whore does not look like her picture she ends up looking like "cracked out" Rosie perez or a "Fat Oprah with an eating disorder".

As for cops doing that shit. I remember I was on Hunts Point and the cop pulled up next to him and asked me "What I was doing here". I said "out and about", he said well I better not see you around here again. I guess he knew I was looking for whores, sometimes they just wanna warn you and say look we busting "cats" on the stroll and I am giving you a fair warning.

Both of them was black cops so I guess they was looking out.

I ended up getting a whore anyway and spanking her mouth with my dick and letting her out on the curb.

I aint stopping what I am doing over uniformed police stopping me. Now if it was undercover police than I would listen.

Uniformed police telling me to stop getting a whore.

LOL Stop getting dunkin donuts.

 

[More4me]

Now if it was undercover police than I would listen.

OK, I gotta ask -- why?

 

[Boywonder2]

I'll make you pay for that.

Thorn,,,,you have to admit...that was pretty funny.

 

[Thorn]

Thorn,,,,you have to admit...that was pretty funny.

It was a classic, but classics become classics for a reason. So yeah, I admit it was funny.

 

[Retoxicate]

I was at Julie's recently and they did the quick dick lick test on me. Then it was established that I had been there numerous times and I was told, "Oh, we're sorry, that means we didn't have to do the Test".

My response was what made you think I minded. Like I mind a chick licking my dick.

 

[WebDevCTO]

LMAO

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that no cop pretending to be a provider would have any interest AT ALL in fucking the client. If she fucks you, I guarantee that she's not a cop. (Unless you are some big fucking mafioso and it's a much deeper undercover thing than just vice.)

Trust me. None of us are that hot.

Speak for yourself I look like brad Pitt (granted post Angelina not whenhe was with Jennifer) lol!

 

[club goer]

back to the entrapment thing.. as i understand it. as far as making the opportunity available for someone to commit a crime and them doing it.. is not entrapment. They have to somehow force you to commit a crime. For example, a cop pulls up next to you in an unmarked car at a light and revs his engine.. you take off racing and then he pulls you over for speeding.. thats not entrapment. now if youre driving down the parkway and an unmarked comes up behind you and starts tailgating and you speed up to make some distance and they pull you over for speeding, thats entrapment because you were forced by fear or danger

 

[Bandaid]

That sounds about right. Entrapment is getting you to do something you weren't about to do.

 

[lioness]

LMAO

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that no cop pretending to be a provider would have any interest AT ALL in fucking the client. If she fucks you, I guarantee that she's not a cop. (Unless you are some big fucking mafioso and it's a much deeper undercover thing than just vice.)

Trust me. None of us are that hot.

Hey trust me...Some of you clients are quite hot!!!!!!....(just my opinion.. so back to the conversation..........)

 

[lightweight]

Hey trust me...Some of you clients are quite hot!!!!!!....(just my opinion.. so back to the conversation..........)

I think that you are pretty hot too.......

 

[paulbunyon]

I still cant get over the number of providers out there who believe this myth. I've driven for some escorts in the last year or two and I've goten into more arguments with them over this then anything else. Idiots. Just do some research, not too hard to find that that wont stop you from getting busted.

 

[MrFreeze451]

That sounds about right. Entrapment is getting you to do something you weren't about to do.

http://www.newyorkcriminallawyerblog.com/2009/05/entrapment_ny_criminal_defense.html
as good a statement on the law that you can find for free

According to Penal Law Section 40.05 - Entrapment - "it is an affirmative defense that the defendant engaged in the proscribed conduct because he was induced or encouraged to do so by a public servant, or by a person acting in cooperation with a public servant, seeking to obtain evidence against him for purpose of criminal prosecution, and when the methods used to obtain such evidence were such as to create a substantial risk that the offense would be committed by a person not otherwise disposed to commit it. Inducement or encouragement to commit an offense means active inducement or encouragement. Conduct merely affording a person an opportunity to commit an offense does not constitute entrapment."

William Donnino, the author of the practice commentaries for McKinney's, states that the purpose of the Entrapment defense "is to discourage the use of overzealous methods by law enforcement officials to trap the unwary innocent into commission of an offense. Thus, the main thrust of the section is against pressure methods which may cause the commission of an offense by one who is not ordinarily disposed to commit it. As a practical matter, therefore, the defense of entrapment would not be available to the person who regularly engages in illegal enterprise." That being said, the legal reality is that this "defense is available to all defendants and is not limited to the 'unwary innocent'." People v. Yore, 36 A.D.2d 818 (1st Dept. 1971)

Because the courts hold every person's due process rights to the highest level, even those individuals who are "predisposed" to committing crimes may still be the victims of Entrapment by the police. According to the Court of Appeals in People v. Isaacson, 44 N.Y.2d 511 (1978), when deciding whether this defense is available to these individuals, the courts examine numerous factors including:

(1) whether the police manufactured a crime which otherwise would not likely have occurred, or merely involved themselves in an ongoing criminal activity;

(2) whether the police themselves engaged in criminal of improper conduct repugnant to a sense of justice;

(3) whether the defendant's reluctance to commit the crime is overcome by appeals to humanitarian instincts such as sympathy or past friendship, by temptation of exorbitant gain, or by persistent solicitation in the face of unwillingness; and

(4) whether the record reveals simply a desire to obtain a conviction with no reading that the police motive is to prevent further crime or protect the populace.

It is important to recognize that Entrapment is an "affirmative defense." Therefore, the defendant bears the burden of proof. Although a defendant does not have to prove Entrapment beyond a reasonable doubt, the burden of proof is legally described as preponderance of the evidence. Regardless of the standard, an Entrapment defense is not one that will merely fall into place as a case or trial proceeds. Consult with a criminal defense attorney to identify and investigate the elements and evidence you will need to successfully establish your Entrapment defense.
============================================

Hard to say you are entrapped when you have a website advertising your wares.

Hard to say entrapment when you surf the net looking for "friends" and then call one who advertises.

Sitting in a hotel bar and approached by a beautiful woman and agree to go to her room for a good time, maybe a little more wiggle room.

 

[skudd]

There is big LE crackdown going on now in the Hudson Valley and mongers are very cautious hitting up local BP girls.

If a girl runs and ad on BP and you go see her... you get to the room and lay the money down in an envelope pre discussed before you arrive...
You say nothing about what is on the menu because its been discussed prior... u sit there and warm up with small talk until either she or you makes a move.
At what point is this a bustable?
If LE comes crashing thru the door what do they have? Your money in an envelope .. but couldn't it be said you were paying for her company or companionship?
If she is an undercover cop, and you move in for a kiss... can you get busted for that?
I have never had a close call, ... and i dont want one. LE is looking to humiliate johns as a deterrent. If you are married and have a biz it can be disastrous.