NHL Hockey

[Gavvy Cravath]

'94 Embarrassment

That first round still sticks in my craw. Yeah, I haven't followed the sport much the last few years. Milbury, the shootout, Milbury, Wang, the shootout, less fighting, the European players, Milbury and the shootout and Milbury really turned me off to the Islanders and the sport. (Oh, yeah, Milbury and the institution of the shootout really bother(ed) me too.)

But, the one thing that gets me is that fist round in '94. The Rags were 5 minutes aways from losing that 7th Game to the Canucks. If that team pussies the Islanders called a team put up any kind of a fight, brawled in one game, stole one game, did anything in that series, the Rags would never have won that Cup.

Do you know to this day I have never seen a clip of Messier lifting the Cup as a Rag? If I catch a glimpse of it, I turn the channel. Sickens me to this day.

But, it's a different game now. A sadder version of the sport is being played. The league has been sissified. The European players are catered to. The shootout rewards losing hockey teams. WHo the hell ever heard of rewarding losing. A point for losing a game in overtime? There are 30 teams in the NHL. At one point in the season, 26 were above .500!!! Ridiculous...

Gavy

 

[Lascivious]

Would the Islanders have won 19 straight series in a row with out Smith? Probably not. Would they have won a Cup or two? That team was so stacked, smart money says "yes".

As for Richard, I never saw him play. I was 7 years old when I saw Howe play, and I only remember him taking limited shifts (could it have been a pre-season game at the Coliseum?) that I can't really count it. But, I saw Lemieux, Messier, and those Islander greats play, that's why I can rate them where I do. Lemieux could do anything Gretzky could do, and he was bigger, thats why he was better in my book. Look at the Patrick Division he played in for years and the Conference. One tough league.

As for Messier, anyone who could end that streak has got to be up there. The thing about Messier: he was so tough, no one fought him. Kicked some serious ass in the early days. I had a tape somewhere of him on the Cincinnati Stingers kicking the piss out of some moope from Birmingham that started with him. Serious ass kicker.

Gavy

Yea, but Lemieux can't be excused for missing his three-peat by losing to the Islanders. That was my greatest Islander memory since the glory days.

 

[Gavvy Cravath]

And Steve Smith put the puck into his own net and the Oilers lost to Calgary. Gretzky was surrounded by an All Star on every line, on the defense and in the nets. The Penguins, while having very good players, were not as good as the Islanders/Oiler teams.

 

[lightweight]

That first round still sticks in my craw. Yeah, I haven't followed the sport much the last few years. Milbury, the shootout, Milbury, Wang, the shootout, less fighting, the European players, Milbury and the shootout and Milbury really turned me off to the Islanders and the sport. (Oh, yeah, Milbury and the institution of the shootout really bother(ed) me too.)

But, the one thing that gets me is that fist round in '94. The Rags were 5 minutes aways from losing that 7th Game to the Canucks. If that team pussies the Islanders called a team put up any kind of a fight, brawled in one game, stole one game, did anything in that series, the Rags would never have won that Cup.

Do you know to this day I have never seen a clip of Messier lifting the Cup as a Rag? If I catch a glimpse of it, I turn the channel. Sickens me to this day.

But, it's a different game now. A sadder version of the sport is being played. The league has been sissified. The European players are catered to. The shootout rewards losing hockey teams. WHo the hell ever heard of rewarding losing. A point for losing a game in overtime? There are 30 teams in the NHL. At one point in the season, 26 were above .500!!! Ridiculous...

Gavy

Don't make sent you the link to the Ranger and Mess lifting that cup. You might return to your roots.

 

[rob129]

gotta disagree on that-- the oilers still had jari kurri, glenn anderson and a bunch of real good role players. what else did the islanders have? gillies was a good player but it is sort of ridiculous that he is in the hall of fame. the role players may be a wash but i think the oilers had more talented forwards.


Go through the Islander and Oiler teams. You want to take Gretzky over Trottier, fine. Messier (skated on Gretzky's wing early on) over Bossy (the greatest goal scorer the league ever saw) I can see it...maybe. But, after that, the forwards are even, maybe a slight edge to the Islanders.

 

[Gavvy Cravath]

Spoken like a true Ranger fan

gotta disagree on that-- the oilers still had jari kurri, glenn anderson and a bunch of real good role players. what else did the islanders have? gillies was a good player but it is sort of ridiculous that he is in the hall of fame. the role players may be a wash but i think the oilers had more talented forwards.

• Gretzky over Trottier...ok, but Trots won more of those faceoffs.
• Bossy over Kurri...as good as Kurri was, this is no contest
• Messier over Brent Sutter
• Goring vs MacTavish is a push
• Gillies over Anderson...you have to be a Ranger fan to disagree...not even close
• Tonelli over Krushelinski (spelling)...tougher
• Bourne vs Tikkanen is a push...depending on the game you were playing (imagine Tik on the Isles and Bourne out there in that weak Smythe division
• Nystrom over Hunter...not as easy as you think, but Nystrom was tougher and scored big goals
• Duane Sutter over Dave Semenko...although I love Semenko
• Lindstrom over Kallur
• McClelland over Merrick

I tried to get the forwards that were on at least 3 of the Oiler teams, but the Oilers didn't win three in the row, so it was hard. I thought the Islanders would have beaten them, but it is closer than you think.

Move on to the defense and the net and that's where you see the difference.

• Potvin over Coffey
• Lowe and Persson are a push
• Morrow gets the nod over Huddy
• Langevin over Grieg

In the nets, Smith and Melanson vs Moog and Fuhr. I can see in the regular season, you'd want to go with the latter. But, when the chips were down, I don't think anyone takes another goalie over Billy Smith to win one game.

These teams are as close as you can get. Edge Islanders for having tougher opponents during the season.

Gavy

 

[Gavvy Cravath]

Clark Gillies

He was the toughest guy in the league for 10 years. Never had more than 100 PIM. Scored 300+ goals in 12 seasons. If he doesn't beat up O'Reilly (or take on O'Reilly because those 3 fights were probably 1 win, 1 loss and 1 draw for both), the Isles don't win the Cup that first year. He refused to fight in the '78 Toronto series, when WIlliams chased Bossy all over the ice. The next year was a complete embarrassment losing to the "Oh, la la" Rangers. It took those two losses to prove the point that he had to kick ass, just like he did in the '75 playoffs.

Good player? He was essential to that team...

 

[rob129]

• Gretzky over Trottier...ok, but Trots won more of those faceoffs.
• Bossy over Kurri...as good as Kurri was, this is no contest
• Messier over Brent Sutter
• Goring vs MacTavish is a push
• Gillies over Anderson...you have to be a Ranger fan to disagree...not even close
• Tonelli over Krushelinski (spelling)...tougher
• Bourne vs Tikkanen is a push...depending on the game you were playing (imagine Tik on the Isles and Bourne out there in that weak Smythe division
• Nystrom over Hunter...not as easy as you think, but Nystrom was tougher and scored big goals
• Duane Sutter over Dave Semenko...although I love Semenko
• Lindstrom over Kallur
• McClelland over Merrick

I tried to get the forwards that were on at least 3 of the Oiler teams, but the Oilers didn't win three in the row, so it was hard. I thought the Islanders would have beaten them, but it is closer than you think.

Move on to the defense and the net and that's where you see the difference.

• Potvin over Coffey
• Lowe and Persson are a push
• Morrow gets the nod over Huddy
• Langevin over Grieg

In the nets, Smith and Melanson vs Moog and Fuhr. I can see in the regular season, you'd want to go with the latter. But, when the chips were down, I don't think anyone takes another goalie over Billy Smith to win one game.

These teams are as close as you can get. Edge Islanders for having tougher opponents during the season.

Gavy

Still disagree. You sort of gloss over a few things. First, Anderson has more goals, more assists and more points than Gillies plus he is one of the all-time top playoff scorers while playing on the second line. He was a clutch player and he'll be in the hall of fame soon enough. He has 498 goals for crying out load. Gillies was a good player and a leader, i agree but even you have to admit that the hall has relaxed it's standards a bit, like baseball has.

Bossy was truly a one of a kind offensive player and i will give him the edge over Kurri but Kurri scored 600 goals himself, was a very good defender and won a cup without the Great one so you can't say that he just rode Gretzky's coat tails.

Also, just saying that Messier > Sutter is an extreme injustice. Messier was arguably better than Trottier, the Isles best player and in some eyes the best all-around player on his own team, not Gretzky.

It is hard to compare the teams as it is like comparing apples to oranges- they played in different conferences and they played totally different styles of hockey.

 

[Gavvy Cravath]

It is hard to compare the teams as it is like comparing apples to oranges- they played in different conferences and they played totally different styles of hockey.

Oilers played one style of hockey, the Islanders allowed the opponent to dictate how they wanted to play and beat them. The Islanders played in the tougher conference. Again, Gillies over Anderson is easy.

You definitely gloss over the defensive advantage the Islanders had over Edmonton and in the nets.

Rick Kehoe and Darryl Sittler are in the Hall of Fame. Wonderful players. Bernie Federko is in the Hall of Fame. I'd take Gillies any day over them.

Gavy

 

[Gavvy Cravath]

Messier was better than Gretzky, in my opinion.

 

[Gavvy Cravath]

Gretzky, Messier, Anderson, Kurri, Krushelinski, Tikkenen

or

Trottier, Bossy, Gillies, Bourne, Goring, Tonelli

 

[nychelsea]

Messier was better than Gretzky, in my opinion.

For many years Mess was a terrific two way player and in that sense he ourshone the Great On. That said, Gretzky is the best offensive player to lace up the skates. When the Oilers came to the Garden to fact the Rangers, I spent my time watching him. He was a magician with the puck, seemed to have eyes on the back of his head, and was nearly always in the right place on the ice.

What a player.

Still a hockey fan,

Chels

 

[Lascivious]

For many years Mess was a terrific two way player and in that sense he ourshone the Great On. That said, Gretzky is the best offensive player to lace up the skates. When the Oilers came to the Garden to fact the Rangers, I spent my time watching him. He was a magician with the puck, seemed to have eyes on the back of his head, and was nearly always in the right place on the ice.

What a player.

Still a hockey fan,

Chels

He was the best I ever saw. His passing skills were even greater than his goal scoring abilities. Magician is the perfect word to describe him. If you wanted to say Super Mario was better, you could make an argument but I thought Gretzky was the best I ever saw. Nobody I saw had his vision. Bossy is my all time favorite and if he could have stayed healthy, who knows.

 

[rob129]

Gretzky, Messier, Anderson, Kurri, Krushelinski, Tikkenen

or

Trottier, Bossy, Gillies, Bourne, Goring, Tonelli

i think that if you really want to compare something that you should compare the islander teams of the late 1970s-early 1980s to the Montreal cup winning teams of the 1970s. Same time period, same conference and they even faced each other in the post season when they were top-tier teams

 

[stomp]

go flyers! even though they're on a 6 game losing streak

 

[lightweight]

Bi win tonight by the Ranger. Gavy, the Rangers are going to get real hot just in time for the Playoffs.

 

[Gavvy Cravath]

Hockey just isn't the same anymore. I'll throw this out to you. The Rags blew that 5 goal lead last week. They lost in OT (shootout) and got a point. Man, how stupid is this league to reward losing.

Anyway, trade deadline is coming up. WIll the Islanders make any deals? Perhaps. I'll be honest with you. I go to 25 games a year. And for the last 3 years, the only games I saw were the ones I went to in person. Can't watch it on TV anymore. The game is way too European, way too soft and way to gimmicky for me...

Gavy

 

[lightweight]

Hockey just isn't the same anymore. I'll throw this out to you. The Rags blew that 5 goal lead last week. They lost in OT (shootout) and got a point. Man, how stupid is this league to reward losing.

Anyway, trade deadline is coming up. WIll the Islanders make any deals? Perhaps. I'll be honest with you. I go to 25 games a year. And for the last 3 years, the only games I saw were the ones I went to in person. Can't watch it on TV anymore. The game is way too European, way too soft and way to gimmicky for me...

Gavy

I still watch it on TV. I am going to the next Ranger Islander game at the Coliseum. 3/6.
Rangers will make a trade for a defensmen or a scoring winger. Islanders are 1 point out of playoffs. They should make a trade but they will be scared off by last years trade of Smyth. The will at least stand pat.

 

[Lascivious]

Penguins made a hell of a move today getting Marian Hossa. They're going for the cup today this year. Their goalie also stuffed the Isles today.

 

[blondekelly]

A jersey with nothing else on is very sexy. How about a session with that attire Kelly? A little change from the power outfit. I might even have to root for the Rangers.

Just let me know a day in advance and I would be more than happy to accomodate.