Episodes

R

RufusMoses

(212) 513-0888
#161
#161
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N

nycstripclubs

#162
#162
Originally posted by RufusMoses

Also keep in mind that while Episode mgmt has at times stated what seems to be an anti-black door policy, it is also a fact that they have black customers. Nobody has quite figured out what the real policy is.
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Rufus, that's bullshit!! You were the one who first told me about Episode's racist policy. Do I have to dig up the post? You told me that Renee specifically told you invite any friends as long as they weren't black. It doesn't "seem" like anything. It was an explicitly stated policy. AND YOU KNOW IT. Why are you defending that racist bitch?
 
N

nycstripclubs

#163
#163
Originally posted by Intown
Since many of us have seen men of color in Episodes, JJ's tirade isn't on behalf of his race; it's solely and selfishly on behalf of himself alone. His attitude of "I don't care if everybody else loses a good watering hole because I couldn't get in" is completely against the comraderie and information-sharing philosophy that this whoreboard is based on. And because of that, I find his previous posts repulsive.
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It was because of his race. So FUCK YOU!

If you miss $40 BJ's so much read the thread on picking up street hookers.

See, I knew you'd earn that third one.

Peace,
Valjean
 
I

Intown

#164
#164
You missed my point. I'm saying that JJ's only motive is for himself. He doesn't care a single iota about anyone else of his race who have been allowed entry but are now Episodes-less. Let's try for 4 fuck you's.
 
N

nycstripclubs

#165
#165
That's just collateral damage.

In any case, JJ said he DIDN'T dime them out. Most likely they got shut down because someone either in the building or on the block complained because they didn't want a whorehouse near their business.

That's not to say the racist hillbilly bitch doesn't deserve to be dimed out. The next time she opens up, someone should let her know it's a distinct possibility unless she changes her policy. Not to mention that it's costing her ALOT of business.
 
J

JackT

#166
#166
I can understand frustration with Episodes' (apparent) racial policy, and I don't begrudge anyone the right to publicly post about how horrible it is on any public or private PMB, to debate the issues, to garner support for a boycott, whatever. From square one, the nature of the biz here is ILLEGAL... IMO their racism should be exposed for what it is, but there is an appropriate manner to do that in the context of the illegality of the prostitution business.

HOWEVER, to escalate things by "dropping dimes" and "calling LE" puts any number of unsuspecting hobbyists and girls at risk (clearly not everyone who patronizes Episodes is even aware of, much less complicit in, their racist policies). This, IMO, is OVER THE LINE and smacks of intimidation and vigilanteism.
 
R

RufusMoses

(212) 513-0888
#167
#167
I tend to agree with JackT on this. Chances are very few customers support the policy and very few of the girls would quit if the policy was changed. Even some of the management there may disagree with the policy, but go along because they don't want to lose their job over it.

So if some drastic action is taken the degree of hurt to those who deserve it would be much less than the degree of hurt received by innocent bystanders.

There should also be a sort of social contract in this realm that things like "outting" customers or "dropping the dime" on an operation is the equivalent of going nuclear...it's a response out of proportion to its supposed justification that just leaves a lot more casualties and removes the possibility of incremental improvement.

Aside to nycstripclubs...I don't think we are on entirely different sides of this issue. It is true they told me they didn't want black members. It is also true that I've personally seen black customers there. Perhaps rather than saying that the policy isn't clear I should say it isn't clear why their practice differs from their policy.
 
N

nycstripclubs

#168
#168
In the last two or three years that I've been aware of Episode, I've never bothered to check it out.I KNOW that personally I would have no problem getting in. I know enough of her customers that would be willing to bring me in. On the other hand, if one of those guys brought me to the door and she turned me away because of my race, it would piss me off enough so that I'd probably be willing to "go nuclear", casualties be damned. However, I'm not the one to be affected, so I won't be the one to drop a dime. I go to spots all over the city where I'm distinctly in the minority and have not experienced any racism of this kind. What she is doing is completely unacceptable.

Unfortunately, there is very little comparable competition in that price range especially in Midtown and in the daytime. Even street action is more expensive if you need to get a room. For some of you, that is the only consideration, and so good for you.

However since she is ILLEGAL, she should rethink her policy just because she is at such risk. She can't afford to piss people off. You regulars should sit her down and let her know what some people are thinking. I am constantly giving feedack to promoters and management of different spots. I HAVE been able to effect change. It might be worth a try.
 
R

RufusMoses

(212) 513-0888
#169
#169
Thanks for the very constructive response. I'll make a commitment here to make the suggestions you note.

Of course this all assumes that the place re-opens...and can stay open long enough for any of this to even matter...

Can this thread now die, and discussion of this place cease on this wildly public and popular board?

I can think of other places that want to be "down low" and are given the courtesy of not being discussed here...I am sure the folks at Episode would appreciate it as well...
 
I

Intown

#170
#170
The fact that Nycstripclubs and JJcocksucker would have no qualms about "going nuclear" and hurting many innocent bystanders (hobbyists) tells me all I need to know about each of them. If nothing else, this thread has exposed their selfish "me above everyone else" motives and goes against the comraderie and information sharing philosophies that this board is presumably based on. I know I'm not the only one with that same opinion but I'm the only one with the balls to say it.
 
N

nycstripclubs

#173
#173
Originally posted by Intown
The fact that Nycstripclubs and JJcocksucker would have no qualms about "going nuclear" and hurting many innocent bystanders (hobbyists) tells me all I need to know about each of them. If nothing else, this thread has exposed their selfish "me above everyone else" motives and goes against the comraderie and information sharing philosophies that this board is presumably based on. I know I'm not the only one with that same opinion but I'm the only one with the balls to say it.
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Intown, fuck you.

And I'm CERTAIN I'm not the only one with that opinion.

I's obvious the only thing that concerns you is the loss of a cheap blow job. As for comaraderie and information sharing, those who know me are aware that I've helped to disseminate more information and brought together more pervs than most people on this board.

Peace,
Valjean
 
I

Intown

#174
#174
No amount of "good deeds" can offset the danger to innocent hobbyists by someone "going nuclear". Some of those hobbyists may be the very same ones who you claim to have helped.
 
N

nycstripclubs

#175
#175
In the busts of these spots that I'm aware of, the customers have never been detained by LE except to check ID. The girls have rarely been arrested. It's the management that bears the brunt of the losses be it legal or financial. It is therefore a fairly well targeted kind of attack, which would hardly affect any of us actually reading this.
 
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R

RufusMoses

(212) 513-0888
#176
#176
Some may feel strongly that a wrong executed by a brothel trumps any implicit social contract to respect each others privacy. But think about the result if everyone decided to take it upon themself to drop a dime on a brothel (or independent or hands-on event or whatever) when their sensibilities were offended.

Should far left wing guys start dropping the dime on owners who are far right wing republicans and thus responsible for all manner of social wrongs in their eyes? What if an owner tells a joke that starts "a priest, a minister, and a rabbi are in a boat..."? What if one of the girls seems "bitchy"? What if one discovers the owner encourages drug use by the girls? What if one of the girls stops by with a baby in tow and "that just isn't right!"? What if, what if, what if...

Racism at a brothel isn't pretty...but once you allow individuals to be judge, jury, and hangman...the entire system of "honor among thieves (ie lawbreakers)" breaks down and all manner of illegal business patron and owner warfare becomes possible and even likely. "She said she'd do a BBBJ, but then after I paid insisted on covered and said I misunderstood...so I reported her to the cops and left xeroxed papers all over the neighborhood outting her!"

My suggestion...individuals should vote with their feet, but not stomp all over the feet of others in the process...
 
N

nycstripclubs

#177
#177
I HAVE voted with my feet.

Since she hasn't done anything to me personally, I haven't actually been inclined to push that button. However, I would completely understand if someone did, especially since it is an option at EVERYONE'S fingertips.

Most of the closures I'm aware of are due to someone's being pissed off, be it a disgruntled employee, or neighbor. By being racist it's extremely stupid of her to piss off near 30% of her potential customer base. If one of that 30% were to actually drop a dime I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

As for the implied contract, there's a big difference between a provider giving bad service and a racist policy excluding a specific group.
 
R

RufusMoses

(212) 513-0888
#178
#178
I understand that is how you feel, but that is exactly the point...it is how *you* feel.

I can imagine some others would make the opposite argument...i.e. that a brothel has no obligation be color-blind, but that they do have an obligation to deliver what was promised once money has changed hands.

What I am trying to point out is that there are ethical issues, which are matters of individual conscience, and there are meta-ethical issues which properly addressed allow individuals with differences of opinion to co-exist.

The meta-ethics here is that providers should never out clients, and clients should never rat out providers. That allows all manner of commercial sex to carry on without cancelling itself out.

Having established that, there is plenty of room for disagreement, protest, lobbying, trying to convince others, etc. Just as long as folks don't start dropping the meta-bomb.
 
I

Intown

#179
#179
I hope it's a correct statement that when these types of places get busted, the workers and the customers get to walk away unscathed. The idea that someone (JJ) was reveling in the misfortune of Episodes' workers, some of whom I've become very friendly with and spoke with more than casually, was what really ticked me off bigtime.

The only recourse is karma; if you drop a dime or have no qualms with dropping a dime if the situation should present itself to you, then someone will be droppng a dime on you someday. As Rufus so eloquently explained (in one of the most intelligent and on-target posts I have ever read anywhere), being judge, jury, and hangman is a dangerous thing in this arena. It can set wheels into motion that can only mean trouble for us "thieves", and it sets a precedent; suddenly nobody knows where to stop or draw the line.
 
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