Do not talk to the police - ever!

genius · Sep 26, 2008

tommynj has a legitimate question. You may think saying "no comprendo"[ is funny but the cop may start speaking in Spanish - then what do you do then - "Ich verstehe nicht"?

So what do our legal experts say to do if LE "start asking questions -"what are you doing here, who did you visit here, etc.." What is the appropriate response?

wolf5958 · Sep 26, 2008

I'm sorry what country are we in......oh the USA. We have freedoms here that say you can come and go as you please. If you are coming out of an incall that is being watched so what. A cop can ask you why you are there but you have the right not to answer and on top of that unless they saw you give money to the girl than saw you f--k her there is no crime. They need probable cause to search you and unless you have a joint or some other illegal thing on you there is no reson to fear. If the cop knows you were at the incall again so what, that's my friends place and I was just visiting. Remember just like speeding the cop has to witeness the offense to write the ticket the same hold true for solictation. There is nothing illegal about walking out of a building in NY or this country period. So if the cop asks any and all repsonces will work excet for I was with a pro on the 5th floor. I am begining to think there are a lot of paranoid people on this board and in this hobby. You all over think and that is were you get into trouble. relax and just go with the flow. Believe me if a building is being watch because it is a incall you'll know it before you go in.

SirF · Sep 27, 2008

You ask him the same questions that he asked you.

momomini · Sep 27, 2008

SirF said:

A law professor once asked me if a person put a big banner on the front of their car that says "NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING I HIT" and then rear ends someone, do you think that would stand up in court?

Waterclone · Sep 27, 2008

genius said:

You are right. I was just making a joke. I am no law expert, but I do know that you don't have to talk to the cops.

Q: what are you doing here.
A: none of your business.
A: breathing
A: hanging out
A: my mother told me never to talk to strangers
A: sorry. I'd love to chat, but I gotta run. take care.
A: I am sorry. You'll have to talk to my lawyer.

Any real legal eagles want to chime in?

puffin · Sep 28, 2008

Waterclone said:

IMHO -- though I have stated previously that anything you tell a cop will be used against you if they decide to focus in on you -- getting a cop pissed off is a bad idea. They are human, and they have all the weaknesses of the general populace, and (for example) you can get tasered for no good reason. So there is balancing act here.

tommynj · Sep 28, 2008

Waterclone said:

You are right. I was just making a joke. I am no law expert, but I do know that you don't have to talk to the cops.

Q: what are you doing here.
A: none of your business.
A: breathing
A: hanging out
A: my mother told me never to talk to strangers
A: sorry. I'd love to chat, but I gotta run. take care.
A: I am sorry. You'll have to talk to my lawyer.

Any real legal eagles want to chime in?

can any of this be considered as hindering an investigation?

tommynj · Sep 28, 2008

Perfect example of why you keep your mouth shut!

Car alarm leads to prostitution charges in Hanover
Daily Record staff reports • September 27, 2008

HANOVER, NJ-- A noisy car alarm led to the arrest of four people on prostitution charges.

Patrolman Dominic Kaiser was on patrol Thursday at 12:43 a.m. at a local hotel parking lot when he came upon a vehicle with its alarm sounding.

A check of the vehicle found it was occupied by Jennifer Matuschewitz, 26, of Cliffside Park. Matuschewitz told the officer that her friends had gone to get a room and she did not have the keys, said police Capt. Shawn Waldron.

Moments later the driver, Andre Lazarev, 37 of Brooklyn, N.Y., arrived and shut off the alarm. While speaking with the two, Kaiser, accompanied by Sgt. Anthony Vitanza and Bryan Pilipie, learned that the two had little knowledge of each other or where they had been or why they where there, Waldron said. Further investigation revealed a second female, Candice Salvatore, 22 of Staten Island, N.Y., was inside the hotel allegedly engaged in prostitution with Rodney Griffing, 38, of Glencoe, Mo., Waldron said.

All four were arrested; Matuschewitz was charged with conspiracy to commit prostitution, Lazarev was charged with promoting prostitution, Griffing was charged with prostitution and Salvatore was charged with prostitution, resisting arrest and disorderly conduct.

The four were released with a court date pending.

Police declined to release the name of the hotel but said the investigation revealed that an escort service had been called to arrange the encounter.

Bandaid · Sep 29, 2008

puffin said:

I agree. I wouldn't give a smartass answer, ever. I don't like the "you have to talk to my lawyer" answer because it sort of presupposes the situation is going to get to needing a lawyer. I'd save that for later. I might just say "I'm sorry, I don't choose to answer that" or something else neither smartass or confrontational.

SirF · Sep 29, 2008

I still think answering the question with a question is the best course of action. For example: "Why do you want to know?"

fumpton · Sep 29, 2008

Scroll down to "Know your Rights". Then click on the first link for the downloadable pocket card.

http://action.aclu.org/site/PageServer?pagename=AS_downloads

magicfingersny · Sep 30, 2008

SirF said:

I think a lot of cops might considerthat a smart ass answer. Try gentling the words like "Is there some kind of problem in the area". Or a friend asked you to pick this friend of theirs up & give them a ride. JMHO

puffin · Sep 30, 2008

fumpton said:

Despite the fact that the link you provided is pretty much much the last word on the subject it seems this discussion will only continue with renewed vigor.

Thorn · Sep 30, 2008

tommynj said:

I'd hardly think so, BUT what they would do is give an investigating officer every reason to want to find something, anything, to stick it to you.

Please remember, for your own good, that while most officer are trained professionals and act it they are also human beings. It never pays to tweak the nose of someone who is in a position to screw with your ability to freely move about.

The best thing to do is to politely answer questions with questions, unless the question is in regard to your ID info. The failure of which to provide could be construed as hindering in certain circumstances.

Question: What are you doing in this area?

Answer: Why do you ask, Officer?

Question: Were you doing [insert illegal act]?

Answer: What would make you think I was?

Question: Are you jerking me around.

Answer: No, Officer. I respect the police and have no desire to make you angry with me. I just want to be on my way. May I go now?

Thorn · Sep 30, 2008

tommynj said:

Thanks for posting the article, Tommy.

Folks I encourage anyone who finds anything interesting that pertains to why we do what we do, the ironies involved in "this thing or ours", or the pitfalls therein to post same in a thread in this forum.

We'll discuss it, learn a little something and maybe have some fun along the way.

Wishing well...

Thorn · Sep 30, 2008

magicfingersny said:

NO!

Never lie. An investigating officer will record what you said, either in his reports or sometimes an actual audio recording that will be taken as evidence and possibly played later at trial [it is legal in most states and many officers carry small digital recorders now-days].

If you lie about being in the area to pick up friends our credibility is shot and it will be used later to discredit something you say that may be the truth.

Example: Prosecutor asking question to accused at trial, "Mr Insert Name, isn't it a fact that when Officer Friendly approached you and asked you what you were doing in the area your first response to him was that you were in the area to pick up friends?. Wasn't that a lie, Mr Insert Name?."

Now the judge and the jury think you are a bull shitter and discounting everything you say after the answer to that question.

Bandaid · Sep 30, 2008

Absolutely. Never lie. "I'm on personal business" is a good answer, said in a non-confrontational tone.

If you were suspected of a major crime, that wouldn't be enough. You'd probably be detained for questioning. But you're not; the cops are out busting hookers, or trying to. After a round or two of this, you'll probably be on your way. You'll never be worse off, IMO.

genius · Sep 30, 2008

Thorn said:

At last some useful discussion. Thanks Thorn.

Here is a link to a lot of useful disussion on this matter based on a police stop that happened to me. I had BillyS post the story about "his friend" as the cops had my plate and license # and for all I knew they read this board and tied the post to me.

http://utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?p=499702#post499702

The actual text (I wrote it down right after the stop) and sent it to Billy for him to post.

"I had a rather close call with LE today. Was driving down one of the side
streets in Wyandanch 22nd street (I think) arout noon today(Sat). Came to
where it meets Brooklyn Ave at which I was going to make a left which would
bring me to Straight path in about 200 feet. I saw a cop car pass by going S
on Straight path so I signaled right instead and made a right on to Brooklyn
Ave with the intent of calling it a day and maybe stopping in at Show World
as Brooklyn Ave brings you right there. In my rear view mirror I saw that
the cop car made a U on Straight and the headed down Brooklyn Ave – there
was another car in front of him. I drove the speed limit, stopped at stop
signs etc. The car in front of the cops turned off and the cops continued on
Brooklyn Ave. I stopped on Little East Neck Rd and waited for a break in
traffic until I could cross to head for Show World (in the industrial park
there). The cops now were behind me. I crossed over and got maybe 100 yds
into the industrial park when they put on their lights and I pulled over.
Both cops came out and said to give them my license, insurance card,
registration which I did. One of them told me to get out of the car. I did.
The conversation went like this:
Cop: What were you doing on 22th street.
Me: I was coming from Kiss in Commack and going to Show World. I made a
wrong turn.
Cop: Really. What I don’t like is people lying to me. Listen, we are all
grown men here – if you were driving around looking for a little something
just say so. Just don’t lie to me.
Me: I told you what I was doing there.
Cop: When you opened your glove box I saw a pair of binoculars. Why do you
have them?
Me: I am a bird watcher. .There happen to be a lot of red tailed hawks
around the dump. They go after small rodents and its quite a sight to watch
them dive. (Funny part is this was the truth! )
Cop: Are you married.
Me: Yes.
Cop: Do you have anything you shouldn’t have in your car.
Me: No.
Cop: You ever been arrested.
Me: No.
Cop:I’m going to search you and your car. Now is the time to tell me if you
have anything you shouldn’t.
Me: I don’t.
One cop then goes over every square inch of my car while the other pats me
down. The cop finds two condoms in my pocket.
Cop: What are you doing with condoms in your pocket.
Me: I use them to prevent STD’s. Sometimes I get lucky and meet a girl that
likes me so I carry them with me.
Cop: Listen, I told you before that I don’t like people lying to me. We are
all grown up men here – if you were looking around for something just say
so.
Me: I Already told you why I was here.
The other cop is now done searching my car and comes over. He asks me about
the binoculars.
Cop2: You expect me to believe that you use those to watch birds.
Me: That’s why I have them in my car.
Cop2: Just make sure that’s all you use them for. Now I know the session is
over and they don’t have any reason to keep me.
Cop2: So you said you are married?
Me: Yes I am.
Me: Are we done now.?
Cop2: Where are you going now.
Me To Show World. I like to look at the magazines.
Me: Are we done now?
Cop: Nods yes.
I start my car, put on my seat belt, signal and drive away.

Totals elapsed time:: about 20 minutes."

SirF · Sep 30, 2008

This really takes some balls. I remember last time I got a speeding ticket at 2am while slightly intoxicated. How can one train to keep calm when put on the spot. Especially when someone says: come on, give us something. We are not after you, we are after them. Not sure. If I saw a chance to get away with murder, as it was, what I would do.

Thorn · Oct 2, 2008

genius said:

The officers had a right to pat you down for weapons. They did not have the right to enter your pocket and retrive condoms because condoms don't feel like weapons when pass your hands over them in someones pocket.

Nor did they have the right to search your car.

While you were in it they had the right to check the area within your immediate control for weapons that might harm them, but the second you stepped from the vehicle none of the interior of the car was under your immediate control and was no longer subject to Terry stop procedures. The only way they could have searched it at that point is "plain view" [they saw drugs, a weapon, something else illegal right out in the open - in which case they could have seized THAT PARTICULAR thing], you giving your consent [which is what they would have said you did when they challenged you on searching and you didn't balk] or with a warrant to search your car.

Always remember that:

If the police ask you to leave your vehicle do so, with your hands in plain sight, locking the car behind you. They may ask you for your keys, politely say no. They will ask you if you are hiding something. You say no, but you know you aren't in the habit of letting anyone search your car or your home without the proper warrant(s) to do so.

Remember, ALWAYS be polite, unchallenging and nonthreatening, but don't be afraid to be succinct about how far you will let the police go when they stop you. If it even remotely appears you have given consent at the very least you have exposed yourself to a fight in a evidentiary hearing trying to block anything they may find to charge you with.

Do not talk to the police - ever!

genius

wolf5958

lil Fuzzybear

SirF

momomini

Waterclone

Go ahead. Try me.

puffin

tommynj

tommynj

Bandaid

SirF

fumpton

magicfingersny

puffin

Thorn

Thorn

Thorn

Bandaid

genius

SirF

Thorn