Do not talk to the police - ever!

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Bandaid

#2
#2
I watch some of those true crime shows on TruTV and so on, and I'm always struck by how cops and prosecutors say that what seems to me perfectly ordinary behavior is unusual and suspicious. If you speak to the cops and you fidget, why are you so nervous? If you don't, then innocent people don't act so calm... and so on. Especially when the pressure is on to make an arrest in a high profile case, then pretty much anybody will do. (See Stephen Hatfill and Richard Jewell).

Some comments brought up the question of crimes you might see or helping the police solve crimes. I'd do it because I think it's my duty to do it, but I wouldn't like it and wish I hadn't been there.
 
genius

genius

#3
#3
Dont agree. In my relatively few encounters with the police I have always answered questions truthfully. However I have not said anything extra other than to the question being asked

1. Why did you pick up that girl?ANS: She indicated she wanted a ride.
2. (after being searched)Why do you have a condom? ANS:To prevent disease
3. Are you driving around here to pick up prostitutes?ANS: Prostitution is against the law

I think it is a mistake to say - "I have nothing to say until I talk to my lawyer."

disclaimer: Genius is not a legal type but has had a couple of encounters w/LE only one of which ended in a citation (picking up a hitchhiker) that he had dismissed in court w/o lawyer.
 
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B

Bandaid

#4
#4
Genius,

I agree with what you said, but the topic was more general than mongering, and the way you handle it pretty much follows the principle that you don't really engage with the cops. The "least said soonest mended" approach is still true.

If the cops were investigating a serious crime, they wouldn't take your answers as final, though.
 
genius

genius

#5
#5
Bandaid said:
Genius,

I agree with what you said, but the topic was more general than mongering, and the way you handle it pretty much follows the principle that you don't really engage with the cops. The "least said soonest mended" approach is still true.

If the cops were investigating a serious crime, they wouldn't take your answers as final, though.
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My example was just that. I believe you should answer the questions asked truthfully (easier to remember your answers at a later date) or say nothing. I see no reason to add anything other than an direct answer. In the case of serious crime (that you were not involved in) I believe this is espcially true and in fact the obligation of every citizen (as corny as that sounds) to do so. It would seem (to my naive mind perhaps) that by eliminating yourself as a suspect allows LE to spend more effort finding the bad guy. The questions I am talking about are: where were you last night at 9pm. Can anyone corroborate this, do you know so and so, and the like.

This is not to say I would just bend over and let them have their way with me, e.g. "Can we search your house or car?" Not w/o a warrant. However, if the cops said "your car matches the description of one seen near the kidnapping of a little girl - can we open your trunk?" My answer would be "I will open my trunk for the sole purpose of showing you that there is not a llittle girl in there."
 
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marcinny

#6
#6
Not everyone is witty or can fully remain cool and reasonable when they get caught or even they are being suspected without reason. While some can handle most of these situations, others are less capable.
I am not talking only about mongering. If you see you can't control yourself or the situation, just buy yourself some time or a lawyer. There is a reason why "the right to be silent..." was invented.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer
 
L

Lou Grant

#7
#7
genius said:
I think it is a mistake to say - "I have nothing to say until I talk to my lawyer."
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Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

By saying the above you are exercising your RIGHT to not incriminate yourself by ANYTHING you may say. Cops will take anything you say and find a use for it if they believe they have the person responsible for whatever act you may be accused. I have found cops to be not interested in justice but in "accomplishments", i.e. find SOMEONE to close the case.

Many years ago I did something that will always follow me wherever I go. (really don't want to go into it but it wasn't a crime of violence.) Got busted.* Dead to rights. Cops asked if I wanted to make a statement. Might help. I figured Sure, what they hell. They already had the evidence. So made the statement. Well, because of the statement I was sent to county for a day or 2 until I made bail. THEN I got a lawyer. Lawyer tore me a new one. Go to court, what probably could have been knocked down to misdemeanor wasn't because of my statement (so much for statement helping - it only helped the prosecutions case) and I have the "luxury" of having a felony conviction follow me for the rest of my life. (courts don't like to go to trials because it is too expensive. It is not worth the hassle to try someone when the outcome will only end up being a few hundred dollars in fines anyway. The court system is not about fair justice but expedient justice.)

The worst mistake you can ever make is to speak to a cop without the advice of an attorney who knows more than you do. I liked the example the cop used in the video, about getting in the ring with an Olympic or professional boxer. You will probably get your ass kicked. It is the same way with cops. Unless you have been on the other side of that table a few times, you don't stand a chance.

I appreciate genius's approach to being upfront with a cop as a means to possibly diffuse the situation, and maybe it worked for him, but it is bad advice to tell anyone who comes face to face with a cop about any criminal activity to not exercise their rights and seek council first.

*BTW, got busted by a cop in the township where I lived who was a friend of mine who had no problem pulling his 9mm and pointing it directly at my head. This was a guy I knew since he was something like 7 y.o. Obviously, there is no love lost between myself and law enforcement.

Just my personal experience. Take it for what it's worth.
 
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scoochamenz1

#8
#8
the court system is not about expedient justice. there is very little justice in court. ask all the poor people who are in jail because they couldn't afford a good lawyer. court is all about the prosecutor (or should i say persecutor) getting the best result they can. why do you think adolph giuliani had a bunch of misdemeanors changed to felonies when he was mayor? to keep the city safe? no, so that when he ran for mayor again (or any other office), he could tell everyone "look at all the felony convictions we got when i was mayor". i speak from experience. i too was arrested for a non-violent crime and, as much as i hate to say it, the cops were pretty fucking nice to us, but the ada who got our case wanted nothing more than to hang felonies on everyone, even though most of those arrested had almost nothing to do with what was going on. prosecutors are politicians, politicians will hang their fathers and put their moms away for life if it means a fucking promotion or a chance at a higher office.
 
wolf5958

wolf5958

lil Fuzzybear
#9
#9
I have to put my 2 cents in here, I agree with not opening your mouth. Making excuses or even being honest and your ass is locked up. So if your going down anyway why help them by opening your mouth. I have had enough experince with LE in many different states and cities. It don't matter, from my experince I always came out better when there was no one else involved or when we all were smart enough to keep our mouths shut and have a paid mouth piece talk for us. I watch both vids here and the cop was dead on with what he was talking about I have had all of that thrown at me at one time or the other...
 
B

Bandaid

#10
#10
Lou Grant said, "I appreciate genius's approach to being upfront with a cop as a means to possibly diffuse the situation, and maybe it worked for him, but it is bad advice to tell anyone who comes face to face with a cop about any criminal activity to not exercise their rights and seek council first."

Genius's way is for a specific situation. If you're caught up in a spa bust, for example, you have to balance not getting yourself busted and not being too annoying, because the cop can detain you several hours or even find an offense. Maybe you should say nothing, but what Genius does is a way of saying nothing. It's worked for him.

*BTW, got busted by a cop in the township where I lived who was a friend of mine who had no problem pulling his 9mm and pointing it directly at my head. This was a guy I knew since he was something like 7 y.o. Obviously, there is no love lost between myself and law enforcement."

I respect how the police protect people, I understand the necessity for them, I know they enforce the laws I don't like as well as the ones I agree with, I'm aware of the dangers of their jobs - but I don't want any more contact with cops than necessary and I don't consider them friends. They're not. That tension will always be there.
 
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waynnet

#11
#11
genius said:
I believe you should answer the questions asked truthfully ...or say nothing... The questions I am talking about are: where were you last night at 9pm. Can anyone corroborate this, do you know so and so, and the like...

Sounds safe, but what if you tell them "I was grabbing a bite at McDonald's" true - but in the heat of the moment you forgot you had gone to Burger King not McD's. Later LE pulls video from McD's and your not on it - now they have you.

Still I agree in a standard, low level situation such as a traffic offence I'm not going to say "I will speak to my attorney". You want to say something to make the cop know you respect him (without admitting anything) and hopefully he'll cut you some slack.
But if it's something you might end up it court over...I think that video said it.
Click to expand...
 
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monger_master

#12
#12
I err on the side of silence

When I was young and stupid, and horny, one night my buddies and I decided to go out clubbing in downtown Houston. I had crashed and burned on a date, who probably would have had sex with me, but I didn't put on the moves fast enough. So after drinking half a bottle of wine and a few beers with my buddies I stupidly agreed to drive us to this dance club where we had all picked up girls in the past.

Got pulled over going through a "yellow/red/magenta" light and the interrogation commenced. Needless to say I got arrested and sent down to jail for the night. But, while I was there I refused to answer questions on the video camera (although I did do the sobriety test on camera). Also submitted to the breathalyzer exam.

After making bail -- you know who your real friends are when you need $700 in a pinch as a young twentysomething -- I got an attorney and he gave me the scoop, at least in _this_ situation. He admonished me for ever submitting to the sobriety tests on the road, or for answering questions about how much/when/where I'd been drinking (every time I answered one, that just led to even more questions, and eventually the cop is just trying to get you to pony up the answer he wants to hear). Basically he said cops have the authority to arrest you under some pretty low levels of evidence, because ultimately they can just release you without charges if it turns out there isn't anything to pin you on. His advice to me was for future reference, if I have been drinking and get pulled over, if the cop asks me to get out and perform the sobriety test he's already made up his mind to arrest me. So refuse the sobriety test, refuse the breathalyzer test, refuse to make any statements, until they get you down to the station and on camera your statement is "I am not intoxicated."

It also helps that I don't drink anymore either!

But I guess the moral of the story to me was, law enforcement have pressure to exert, will exert such pressure and playing their game by their rules is stupid and usually not helpful.

Justice is kind of a filler word in the court system, I do agree with the poster who said that the courts care about expediency. That is the truth. A criminal judge's court docket is hundreds a day, and they'd love to see 60% of them plea bargained. You have every right to go to trial, which is the route I took and my case was dismissed on the trial date. The prosecutor was furious and I was relieved out of my mind.
 
D

donquixote04

#14
#14
genius said:
... Dont agree. In my relatively few encounters with the police I have always answered questions truthfully. However I have not said anything extra other than to the question being asked ...

1. ... 3. Are you driving around here to pick up prostitutes?ANS: Prostitution is against the law ...
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I'm not a lawyer either, but after listening to the video linked above, I think, at your trial, the prosecuter would say "Was their anything about genius's answers that you found suspicious?"The cop would reply "Yes, he evaded answering directly when I asked him if he was driving around to pick up prostitutes."
 
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Monk

#15
#15
The truth is, if you wait for your lawyer, in most cases, you won't ever get to trial. You probably won't get charged (unless they've caught you red handed or you've committed a violent crime), and if you do, he or she will work out a deal. That's why you need your lawyer there in the first place. It's a good idea to carry the name and number of a good criminal defense lawyer in your wallet, just in case.
 
L

Lou Grant

#16
#16
I remembered there was a thread posted here years ago that referenced an ACLU info topic about what to do if you are stopped or arrested. In light of this conversation I think it bears repeating (especially since the link in the original thread is dead)

http://www.aclu.org/police/gen/14528res20040730.html

The link also has a pdf download small enough that you can keep it in your wallet next to your lawyers business card.

Know your rights.
 
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5

57676

#18
#18
I have PBA cards that were given to me by police officers. I have used them with success after being pulled over for speeding. I have always wondered if I was caught in a bust would it be a good or bad idea to show them to the officers.

(Bearing in mind this has become essentially IRRELEVANT now that both B&G and HLDC are history).
 
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