Coronavirus: The Sick Elephant In The Room
- Thread starter Rider
- Start date
Ok thanks I will read it when I get back from this call. The 2 nd today that is a possible covid patient btw. .. the bottom line is this crisis is stressing healthcare as well as first responders to the maximum.
The long range economic effects of long haulers and there costly rehab needs, haven't even come to the surface yet.
How people don't take this shit seriously is mindblowing to me. Spend a day on the ambulance with me.... It's heart breaking sometimes
The long range economic effects of long haulers and there costly rehab needs, haven't even come to the surface yet.
How people don't take this shit seriously is mindblowing to me. Spend a day on the ambulance with me.... It's heart breaking sometimes
Yes, the overall survival rate is as you indicated (actually I believe a bit higher). But here is the thing — the survival rate can be broken into 2 groups: those under 65 and with no comorbidity factors (where the survival rate is 99%+) and those over 65 and those with comorbidity factors such as diabetes , chemotherapy, immune deficient diseases, obesity to name a few where the survival rate is much lower (how do you think we got to 290,000 dead in the US in 9 months with an accelerating rate — 2,542 dead on Nov 8 ?) .
So you are correct, from your point of view, "I don’t think that all the rules and rush to get a vaccine make very much sense based on that" - assuming you have no comorbidity factors.
There are some, some college kids on spring break come to mind, that may have the attitude, as I facetiously posted in #715 above, "Nah, what have "those vulnerable" done for me lately?
"
BTW, Sweden, up until recently, had the attitude of protecting the vulnerable best they could and all other living life with minimal precautions whereas neighboring countries took the lockdown and mask approach. Those neighboring countries shut down the border (with Sweden but not each other). as they didn't agree with that philosophy.
Well Sweden has just reversed itself and is going lock down and masks route. Turns out to date that they had 10X the deaths of the other countries.
One more thing (in my long winded post) the survival rate you posted means the rate of those being not dead. I know of 2 people, a woman, nurses aide, who got COVID in april. She is 32, spends her days in a dark room (helps a bit with her debilitating headaches) and has overwhelming fatigue. I have an uncle who survived COVID but ended up with blood clots in one leg and nerve damage. He is relearning how to walk. As I posted before I personally know of 6 people who died from COVID. Since I retired my sphere of people I know has dropped down to perhaps low 100's and 8 of them have life altering events.
So you are correct, from your point of view, "I don’t think that all the rules and rush to get a vaccine make very much sense based on that" - assuming you have no comorbidity factors.
There are some, some college kids on spring break come to mind, that may have the attitude, as I facetiously posted in #715 above, "Nah, what have "those vulnerable" done for me lately?
"BTW, Sweden, up until recently, had the attitude of protecting the vulnerable best they could and all other living life with minimal precautions whereas neighboring countries took the lockdown and mask approach. Those neighboring countries shut down the border (with Sweden but not each other). as they didn't agree with that philosophy.
Well Sweden has just reversed itself and is going lock down and masks route. Turns out to date that they had 10X the deaths of the other countries.
One more thing (in my long winded post) the survival rate you posted means the rate of those being not dead. I know of 2 people, a woman, nurses aide, who got COVID in april. She is 32, spends her days in a dark room (helps a bit with her debilitating headaches) and has overwhelming fatigue. I have an uncle who survived COVID but ended up with blood clots in one leg and nerve damage. He is relearning how to walk. As I posted before I personally know of 6 people who died from COVID. Since I retired my sphere of people I know has dropped down to perhaps low 100's and 8 of them have life altering events.
Yes, the overall survival rate is as you indicated (actually I believe a bit higher). But here is the thing — the survival rate can be broken into 2 groups: those under 65 and with no comorbidity factors (where the survival rate is 99%+) and those over 65 and those with comorbidity factors such as diabetes , chemotherapy, immune deficient diseases, obesity to name a few where the survival rate is much lower (how do you think we got to 290,000 dead in the US in 9 months with an accelerating rate — 2,542 dead on Nov 8 ?) .
So you are correct, from your point of view, "I don’t think that all the rules and rush to get a vaccine make very much sense based on that" - assuming you have no comorbidity factors.
There are some, some college kids on spring break come to mind, that may have the attitude, as I facetiously posted in #715 above, "Nah, what have "those vulnerable" done for me lately? "
BTW, Sweden, up until recently, had the attitude of protecting the vulnerable best they could and all other living life with minimal precautions whereas neighboring countries took the lockdown and mask approach. Those neighboring countries shut down the border (with Sweden but not each other). as they didn't agree with that philosophy.
Well Sweden has just reversed itself and is going lock down and masks route. Turns out to date that they had 10X the deaths of the other countries.
One more thing (in my long winded post) the survival rate you posted means the rate of those being not dead. I know of 2 people, a woman, nurses aide, who got COVID in april. She is 32, spends her days in a dark room (helps a bit with her debilitating headaches) and has overwhelming fatigue. I have an uncle who survived COVID but ended up with blood clots in one leg and nerve damage. He is relearning how to walk. As I posted before I personally know of 6 people who died from COVID. Since I retired my sphere of people I know has dropped down to perhaps low 100's and 8 of them have life altering events.
So you are correct, from your point of view, "I don’t think that all the rules and rush to get a vaccine make very much sense based on that" - assuming you have no comorbidity factors.
There are some, some college kids on spring break come to mind, that may have the attitude, as I facetiously posted in #715 above, "Nah, what have "those vulnerable" done for me lately?
"BTW, Sweden, up until recently, had the attitude of protecting the vulnerable best they could and all other living life with minimal precautions whereas neighboring countries took the lockdown and mask approach. Those neighboring countries shut down the border (with Sweden but not each other). as they didn't agree with that philosophy.
Well Sweden has just reversed itself and is going lock down and masks route. Turns out to date that they had 10X the deaths of the other countries.
One more thing (in my long winded post) the survival rate you posted means the rate of those being not dead. I know of 2 people, a woman, nurses aide, who got COVID in april. She is 32, spends her days in a dark room (helps a bit with her debilitating headaches) and has overwhelming fatigue. I have an uncle who survived COVID but ended up with blood clots in one leg and nerve damage. He is relearning how to walk. As I posted before I personally know of 6 people who died from COVID. Since I retired my sphere of people I know has dropped down to perhaps low 100's and 8 of them have life altering events.
For the most part, people go on with living without problems... there’s always going to be special cases - hence the vaccine allergic reactions ... but they won’t stop passing that damn thing out just because 1% (I made that # up) of people don’t handle it well... Haven’t some vaccines been linked to Autism or something? Totally asking, not inferring...And even though there’s a current list of side effects of this C-19 vaccine, who knows what that list will look like 15 years from now... I take all the vaccines you have to have to prevent catastrophic death rates... but just like I never get the flu shot, I’m not getting some random virus shot either unless there’s overwhelming evidence to support it... so far, there’s really not any that makes me feel the urge.
You said yourself that you’re retired... what about the people that have been working their whole lives and are now losing everything they worked for because some idiot with more power told them they can’t go to work or open their doors to do business... It’s totally not fair.
There’s two sides to every thought on this subject and I know that both sides are super controversial to the other side... I do tend to lean to one side over the other based on how the people I know and love, and myself, are affected by this... Just like anyone.
I could continue but I’m on the verge of getting super over opinionated with things and don’t want my shit deleted. So I’m just throwing another viewpoint out there.
Sophia,
As you said there are two sides to every thought on this subject — here are some of my thoughts that are offered in good faith.
In the US on Dec 9 3,043 people died from COVID, on Dec 8 2,617 died, bringing the total to 292,480. These are the ("such") numbers when steps are being taken to mitigate transmission such as masks and limiting congregation of people. Many of the steps taken by politicians are asinine, some make sense.
So far in past 9 months 292,480 haven't lived "without problems" — they are dead — and the rate of death is increasing. Just to put this in perspective in the past 12 months 41,760 women died of breast cancer in the US.
. In the UK trial of 40,000 there were 2 people (0.005% which is a bit less than 1%) had allergic reactions (they both had a history of allergic reactions and carried an epipen with them.) In the US trial of 20,000 there were no allergic reactions (0.0%).
. based on UK MD who based his conclusion on 8 children who were diagnosed with autism in the year that they got vaccinated, 1998. In England in 1998 1 in 2000 children who get vaccinated are diagnosed with autism and 1 in 2000 who don't get vaccinated are diagnosed with autism. The study he said he did and got published in a medical journal could not be replicated by others and was retracted and he lost his medical license linked to fraud and conflicts of interest as part of an anti-vax group. For more info https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield
. No, it is totally not fair. It's also not fair that almost 1.6 million people have died worldwide in past year that could have been greatly reduced if authorities in China had not initially released false info from the start that the virus was not transmitted from animals to humans and locked down travel from Wuhan to other parts of China but allowed travel to everywhere else in the world.
IMHO, nothing wrong with being super opinionated. There are lot of data from reputable sources accessible on the internet that you can use to back up your opinions. I don't see why any posts as such would get deleted.
The reason I enjoy UG so much is that it is in no way a typical whoreboard. Topics range from the sublime to the ridiculous, from weird (to some people)sexual practices to cooking to financial topics to sports.
As you said there are two sides to every thought on this subject — here are some of my thoughts that are offered in good faith.
In the US on Dec 9 3,043 people died from COVID, on Dec 8 2,617 died, bringing the total to 292,480. These are the ("such") numbers when steps are being taken to mitigate transmission such as masks and limiting congregation of people. Many of the steps taken by politicians are asinine, some make sense.
So far in past 9 months 292,480 haven't lived "without problems" — they are dead — and the rate of death is increasing. Just to put this in perspective in the past 12 months 41,760 women died of breast cancer in the US.
. In the UK trial of 40,000 there were 2 people (0.005% which is a bit less than 1%) had allergic reactions (they both had a history of allergic reactions and carried an epipen with them.) In the US trial of 20,000 there were no allergic reactions (0.0%).
. based on UK MD who based his conclusion on 8 children who were diagnosed with autism in the year that they got vaccinated, 1998. In England in 1998 1 in 2000 children who get vaccinated are diagnosed with autism and 1 in 2000 who don't get vaccinated are diagnosed with autism. The study he said he did and got published in a medical journal could not be replicated by others and was retracted and he lost his medical license linked to fraud and conflicts of interest as part of an anti-vax group. For more info https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield
. No, it is totally not fair. It's also not fair that almost 1.6 million people have died worldwide in past year that could have been greatly reduced if authorities in China had not initially released false info from the start that the virus was not transmitted from animals to humans and locked down travel from Wuhan to other parts of China but allowed travel to everywhere else in the world.
IMHO, nothing wrong with being super opinionated. There are lot of data from reputable sources accessible on the internet that you can use to back up your opinions. I don't see why any posts as such would get deleted.
The reason I enjoy UG so much is that it is in no way a typical whoreboard. Topics range from the sublime to the ridiculous, from weird (to some people)sexual practices to cooking to financial topics to sports.
Autism link was never proven by researchers
https://autismsciencefoundation.org/what-is-autism/autism-and-vaccines/
Quote:
"The results of studies are very clear; the data show no relationship between vaccines and autism. Read the studies themselves below and browse our recommended reading list."
https://autismsciencefoundation.org/what-is-autism/autism-and-vaccines/
Quote:
"The results of studies are very clear; the data show no relationship between vaccines and autism. Read the studies themselves below and browse our recommended reading list."
Yes, the overall survival rate is as you indicated (actually I believe a bit higher). But here is the thing — the survival rate can be broken into 2 groups: those under 65 and with no comorbidity factors (where the survival rate is 99%+) and those over 65 and those with comorbidity factors such as diabetes , chemotherapy, immune deficient diseases, obesity to name a few where the survival rate is much lower (how do you think we got to 290,000 dead in the US in 9 months with an accelerating rate — 2,542 dead on Nov 8 ?) .
So you are correct, from your point of view, "I don’t think that all the rules and rush to get a vaccine make very much sense based on that" - assuming you have no comorbidity factors.
There are some, some college kids on spring break come to mind, that may have the attitude, as I facetiously posted in #715 above, "Nah, what have "those vulnerable" done for me lately? "
BTW, Sweden, up until recently, had the attitude of protecting the vulnerable best they could and all other living life with minimal precautions whereas neighboring countries took the lockdown and mask approach. Those neighboring countries shut down the border (with Sweden but not each other). as they didn't agree with that philosophy.
Well Sweden has just reversed itself and is going lock down and masks route. Turns out to date that they had 10X the deaths of the other countries.
One more thing (in my long winded post) the survival rate you posted means the rate of those being not dead. I know of 2 people, a woman, nurses aide, who got COVID in april. She is 32, spends her days in a dark room (helps a bit with her debilitating headaches) and has overwhelming fatigue. I have an uncle who survived COVID but ended up with blood clots in one leg and nerve damage. He is relearning how to walk. As I posted before I personally know of 6 people who died from COVID. Since I retired my sphere of people I know has dropped down to perhaps low 100's and 8 of them have life altering events.
So you are correct, from your point of view, "I don’t think that all the rules and rush to get a vaccine make very much sense based on that" - assuming you have no comorbidity factors.
There are some, some college kids on spring break come to mind, that may have the attitude, as I facetiously posted in #715 above, "Nah, what have "those vulnerable" done for me lately?
"BTW, Sweden, up until recently, had the attitude of protecting the vulnerable best they could and all other living life with minimal precautions whereas neighboring countries took the lockdown and mask approach. Those neighboring countries shut down the border (with Sweden but not each other). as they didn't agree with that philosophy.
Well Sweden has just reversed itself and is going lock down and masks route. Turns out to date that they had 10X the deaths of the other countries.
One more thing (in my long winded post) the survival rate you posted means the rate of those being not dead. I know of 2 people, a woman, nurses aide, who got COVID in april. She is 32, spends her days in a dark room (helps a bit with her debilitating headaches) and has overwhelming fatigue. I have an uncle who survived COVID but ended up with blood clots in one leg and nerve damage. He is relearning how to walk. As I posted before I personally know of 6 people who died from COVID. Since I retired my sphere of people I know has dropped down to perhaps low 100's and 8 of them have life altering events.
It turns out everything we have been doing to battle COVID has had an effect.
There is now a more contagious form of the virus emerging. Also the over use of meds has caused a drug resistant form of gonorrhea to also emerge.
https://nypost.com/2020/12/22/covid-19-now-blamed-for-rise-in-super-gonorrhea/
There has long been theories that the less contagious / deadly viruses compete for hosts with the more contagious and deadlier forms. By killing off the less contagious / deadly viruses we give the more contagious and deadlier forms space to grow.
Not sure what the answer is, as we can't just stop treating people. But I think we need to realistic on our expectations, especially regarding a vaccine. In the entire history of medical innovation, there was only one disease that was truly eradicated, and that took almost 200 years.
There is now a more contagious form of the virus emerging. Also the over use of meds has caused a drug resistant form of gonorrhea to also emerge.
https://nypost.com/2020/12/22/covid-19-now-blamed-for-rise-in-super-gonorrhea/
There has long been theories that the less contagious / deadly viruses compete for hosts with the more contagious and deadlier forms. By killing off the less contagious / deadly viruses we give the more contagious and deadlier forms space to grow.
Not sure what the answer is, as we can't just stop treating people. But I think we need to realistic on our expectations, especially regarding a vaccine. In the entire history of medical innovation, there was only one disease that was truly eradicated, and that took almost 200 years.