To oversimplify. Triangulation and process of elimination. Every call is "pinged" off a cell tower. The "pings" move towers as the phone moves. Find the car that moves the same path and you find the owner. Murders and major drug deals are solved daily using this information. ( a little inside info ). But this is an oversimplification of the process. Just saying. Lol.
Burner Phones
- Thread starter lovelight
- Start date
If you guys ever had a reason to use a burner phone - from today's ND:
Nassau acting Police Commissioner Patrick Ryder has been urging families of overdose victims to cooperate with investigators by granting access to phones.
“We are there to ask for your help, giving us access to that phone data because that data, the last three or four phone calls, one of them was the drug dealer,” Ryder said at a news conference. “And we’re going to take that data and we’re going to go hunt them down.”
Nassau acting Police Commissioner Patrick Ryder has been urging families of overdose victims to cooperate with investigators by granting access to phones.
“We are there to ask for your help, giving us access to that phone data because that data, the last three or four phone calls, one of them was the drug dealer,” Ryder said at a news conference. “And we’re going to take that data and we’re going to go hunt them down.”
Just to help out a little for those guys who sometimes struggle to connect the dots:
What genius is saying that if you see a provider who uses and she ODs soon after , LE wants access to her phone On the assumption that one of her last calls was to her dealer. This goes along with their push to target suppliers over users. Since they won't know which # is the dealers they'll be reaching out to every # in her phone to try and find it. If you foolishly use your regular phone they'll be reaching out to you.
What genius is saying that if you see a provider who uses and she ODs soon after , LE wants access to her phone On the assumption that one of her last calls was to her dealer. This goes along with their push to target suppliers over users. Since they won't know which # is the dealers they'll be reaching out to every # in her phone to try and find it. If you foolishly use your regular phone they'll be reaching out to you.
Of course, it raises some interesting points, not least of which is that many if not most dealers have been using burners longer than we have and I've yet to see any evidence that they're not pretty damn good at hiding your ID if set up correctly. So while this might be a feel good move for the families to show some LE effort, it remains to be seen how effective it really is. Look at the trouble the FBI had opening the phone from San Bernardino killers. And then there's that damned Constitution with its 4th amendment. For example:
Phone belongs to girl who ODs but does not die. Family in good faith turns over phone while she's incapacitated. Nothing taken from that phone would ever be admissible since permission was not obtained from owner.
On another note, this type of action puts added pressure on Congress to require ID when buying a burner (a bill doing just that is working its way thru committee right now). So if you don't have one yet, I wouldn't wait much longer.
Phone belongs to girl who ODs but does not die. Family in good faith turns over phone while she's incapacitated. Nothing taken from that phone would ever be admissible since permission was not obtained from owner.
On another note, this type of action puts added pressure on Congress to require ID when buying a burner (a bill doing just that is working its way thru committee right now). So if you don't have one yet, I wouldn't wait much longer.
The way it is effective, according to the ND artivicle, is that LE calls the last bunch of #'s on the phone and tries to set up a delivery. When the delivery guy brings the drugs he gets arrested and LE then tries to work up the chain,( maybe plea deal in return for info). Of course if you aren't the delivery guy you probably don't have a problem other than having to deal with LE or explain to your SO why LE wants to talk to you.
That's nothing compared to the trouble of finding and getting info from a smashed burner lying at the bottom of the east river.
The real catch for LE is the murder charge on top of the drug charge. Gives real incentive for the delivery guy to cop a plea in return for info.
If you don't have one yet you are being foolish. Period.
That's nothing compared to the trouble of finding and getting info from a smashed burner lying at the bottom of the east river.
The real catch for LE is the murder charge on top of the drug charge. Gives real incentive for the delivery guy to cop a plea in return for info.
If you don't have one yet you are being foolish. Period.
My main question is can I have a burner iPhone X if I go wait in line on Friday and pay cash?? currently I'm using my iPhone 6+ for EVERYTHING!!! I'll FaceTime a provider to make sure I'm not wasting time. I have paid for my iPhone with cash and never use iCloud but do have my emails on my phone. I do have the pay as you go ATT sim that I paid for with cash years ago but have refilled it with my personal credit cards etc... and I'm sure Apple knows more about me than I do but I'm not really paranoid and usually don't care. But I may be getting into consulting soon and might even care about my image one day so what can I do?
Yes I'm willing to create new emails and get rid of my old ones and even a untraceable VPN VOIP forewading service (if possible) from my home office so I can have a few numbers for business and one for my family and friends that get routed through something untraceable and my cell number for hoes and providers. I have someone I can call and ask to set up all my tech needs but I don't know what to ask for and what's a fair amount to pay them?
Yes I plan to cover up the front camera regardless and not use face id. I just love the apple OS but not a big fan of the home button, and ideally I would like to keep my private life private. I think it's time for me to set up some new emails anyways and Apple will probably collect my data if I like it or not but can I have it so they know everything about me without knowing who exactly I am???
Yes I'm willing to create new emails and get rid of my old ones and even a untraceable VPN VOIP forewading service (if possible) from my home office so I can have a few numbers for business and one for my family and friends that get routed through something untraceable and my cell number for hoes and providers. I have someone I can call and ask to set up all my tech needs but I don't know what to ask for and what's a fair amount to pay them?
Yes I plan to cover up the front camera regardless and not use face id. I just love the apple OS but not a big fan of the home button, and ideally I would like to keep my private life private. I think it's time for me to set up some new emails anyways and Apple will probably collect my data if I like it or not but can I have it so they know everything about me without knowing who exactly I am???
It’ll take someone far more tech savvy than me to answer all those questions, but let me just ask you this: is there some compelling reason why you can’t/won’t just get a $20 TracFone and pay as you go cards and use that exclusively as described before? Why even involve your regular phone, which you quite correctly point out is inextricably linked to your real ID?
Because I don't want to constantly have two phones on me which as other posters pointed out defeats the purpose of the burner phone if there always in the same car etc.... I monger quite often and when I'm not I still manage to find myself in the company or target of unsavory people... i once canceled a tinder date to meet a different girl so I covered with a good but completely false lie the other person believed so much so that I got calls the next day from a male trying to use the false information I provided to scam me and fish for my CC number lol so why have any number at all that can link back to me??
You gotta use 2 separate phones get a cheap droid pay cash, refill cards with cash, use the web browser and go to a public WiFi spot or the cell data plan if you want to setup an email account (I just talk and text).
Anything that you do can be traced back to you’re home and business IP addresses if you use you’re WiFi from the burner what’s the point. You gotta keep them separated. This is the easiest cheapest way
Anything that you do can be traced back to you’re home and business IP addresses if you use you’re WiFi from the burner what’s the point. You gotta keep them separated. This is the easiest cheapest way
A lot of this depends on who your trying to hide from. Trying to throw off a 3 letter agency is nearly impossible, and there are too many ways to why that’s so..
Hiding from apple is easier, as you can absolutely set up new emails and Apple ID, although to set up an ID I believe they require a creditcard these days. And as long as you don’t mix identities on your phone (Strictly providers info, don’t google yourself, dont bluetooth from the car, don’t link up to your home WiFi, etc.)
Hiding from everyone else... Setting up a home voip phone monger number to forward to your iPhone seems pointless. Some apps will let u voip even without a voice plan. Essentially you can even use an old iPad as a burner. Just wipe them first and remove them from ur apple account.
Bring that iPad to the dark side. Good way to squeeze that outdated, no longer tech supported, pretty looking paperweight for all its worth. Here’s to u Apple.
- sent from my iPhone (just kidding)
Hiding from apple is easier, as you can absolutely set up new emails and Apple ID, although to set up an ID I believe they require a creditcard these days. And as long as you don’t mix identities on your phone (Strictly providers info, don’t google yourself, dont bluetooth from the car, don’t link up to your home WiFi, etc.)
Hiding from everyone else... Setting up a home voip phone monger number to forward to your iPhone seems pointless. Some apps will let u voip even without a voice plan. Essentially you can even use an old iPad as a burner. Just wipe them first and remove them from ur apple account.
Bring that iPad to the dark side. Good way to squeeze that outdated, no longer tech supported, pretty looking paperweight for all its worth. Here’s to u Apple.
- sent from my iPhone (just kidding)
I’m not interested in going head to head with the guys in the shiny shoes, so if you are looking for specific types of “proof”, you will have to find that yourself. As I suppose the only TRUE proof is witnessing firsthand.
To answer Pokler, it really comes down to logistics. As I said, I wouldn't dare delve into nation state type activity, but as far as we are concerned, ask yourself... where did I buy that burner? Was it a big box store? Did the store have a camera? Burned... did I take it in my car with me to the hotel? Burned.. or did I try to be extra smart and take a train? How did I pay for that train fare? Cash, well done! Except for the cameras on the trains and at the stations. Or did I walk past that store that uses facial recognition? Burned.. as you work out every detail and possibility, you see how difficult it becomes.. Easiest way would be to monger for only the one day a year that I could wear a guy fox mask all day, sit on the subway with nothing in your pocket but cash, and not have any1 take a second glance at u. Happy Halloween.
To answer Pokler, it really comes down to logistics. As I said, I wouldn't dare delve into nation state type activity, but as far as we are concerned, ask yourself... where did I buy that burner? Was it a big box store? Did the store have a camera? Burned... did I take it in my car with me to the hotel? Burned.. or did I try to be extra smart and take a train? How did I pay for that train fare? Cash, well done! Except for the cameras on the trains and at the stations. Or did I walk past that store that uses facial recognition? Burned.. as you work out every detail and possibility, you see how difficult it becomes.. Easiest way would be to monger for only the one day a year that I could wear a guy fox mask all day, sit on the subway with nothing in your pocket but cash, and not have any1 take a second glance at u. Happy Halloween.
Let me just start by saying nobody's here to start an argument or waste their time trolling on the internet. I may get a little confrontational when I see stupid, and I may see it pretty damn often, but that's not what this is about. Those of us who value our privacy and have much to lose take this issue of burners very seriously. We rely on them to put a wall between us and our activities, and to keep the two solidly separate. And when pokler or I or anyone else throws out the question "How and why are we wrong to rely on our burners" we do so with the thought that there are hundreds, perhaps thousands of UG readers, and that at least some of you guys have enough knowledge about communications or IT to be able to shed light on the subject. Real light, based on real information. Because if we're doing something wrong, or need to make changes, or are mistakenly placing our trust in a technology that's going to fail us, that knowledge is far more important to me than who gives a better $20 BJ or who's pussy tastes like month old applesauce. But all we ever get is ridiculous statements based on bullshit websites or from watching too much friggin' TV. And for the latest example, I present to you....HobbyistZero.
Are you really that goddam simple and paranoid that you think every fucking item you ever bought at BestBuy that has a serial number is somehow traceable back to you simply because BestBuy has security cameras? Do you honestly think that there's some master fucking database out there that scanned your face when you walked in, matched it to your name and address, and then linked that up to the serial number of that 42" flat screen you paid cash for at the register? And then kept that data on file for, oh I don't know, years and years into the future (my burner is 2 years old now)? That the mere placement of that turned off phone in my car somehow notifies LE of not just where the phone is, but the exact make, model and plate # of the car that I'm in so they'll know who to look for? And I'm still struggling to even wrap my head around on what planet walking through a LIRR station with my phone in my pocket sends some signal to their security cams that I'm the guy with that phone and they'll not only be able to ID my phone, but also me personally, and then store that info for who knows how long, and then on some far off date in the future when LE somehow miraculously knew I was there they'll be able to pinpoint when and where I was so they can retrieve that cam footage...
Turn off the TV, man.
I've written before on here about how to properly set one up. I've written about the benefits of caution, and how a little paranoia is a good thing. I don't flippantly think anything is foolproof, nor do I think I know everything (indeed, just the opposite. I"m asking and looking for someone to show me what I"m doing wrong, so I can fix it). But this fucking Johnny Rocket bullshit that every time I wipe my ass LE knows whether I went front to back or back to front is just frustrating. If you don't know anything about them, then don't say anything. Don't dig up links to BS websites that deal in paranoia so they can sell me something I don't need, as others have done, or spout some half-assed Orwellian bullshit that every security camera out there knows who I am and what's in my pocket and keeps that info forever and can pinpoint it and retrieve it on demand even when nothing exists on the planet that ties my name to that phone...
But hey, other than that, thanks for your contribution. It was fun.
Are you really that goddam simple and paranoid that you think every fucking item you ever bought at BestBuy that has a serial number is somehow traceable back to you simply because BestBuy has security cameras? Do you honestly think that there's some master fucking database out there that scanned your face when you walked in, matched it to your name and address, and then linked that up to the serial number of that 42" flat screen you paid cash for at the register? And then kept that data on file for, oh I don't know, years and years into the future (my burner is 2 years old now)? That the mere placement of that turned off phone in my car somehow notifies LE of not just where the phone is, but the exact make, model and plate # of the car that I'm in so they'll know who to look for? And I'm still struggling to even wrap my head around on what planet walking through a LIRR station with my phone in my pocket sends some signal to their security cams that I'm the guy with that phone and they'll not only be able to ID my phone, but also me personally, and then store that info for who knows how long, and then on some far off date in the future when LE somehow miraculously knew I was there they'll be able to pinpoint when and where I was so they can retrieve that cam footage...
Turn off the TV, man.
I've written before on here about how to properly set one up. I've written about the benefits of caution, and how a little paranoia is a good thing. I don't flippantly think anything is foolproof, nor do I think I know everything (indeed, just the opposite. I"m asking and looking for someone to show me what I"m doing wrong, so I can fix it). But this fucking Johnny Rocket bullshit that every time I wipe my ass LE knows whether I went front to back or back to front is just frustrating. If you don't know anything about them, then don't say anything. Don't dig up links to BS websites that deal in paranoia so they can sell me something I don't need, as others have done, or spout some half-assed Orwellian bullshit that every security camera out there knows who I am and what's in my pocket and keeps that info forever and can pinpoint it and retrieve it on demand even when nothing exists on the planet that ties my name to that phone...
But hey, other than that, thanks for your contribution. It was fun.