Bonds Is A Stinker !!!!

[Ozzy]

thanks dc..your input is always appreciated !

not to be a pain in the ass but any idea who the top 3-4 "speed " pitchers are, past and present?

again , my thanks!

Gibson

Koufax

Seaver

Feller

Ryan

Honorable mention... J R Richard

Cept for Seaver its said the others all topped 98-99 or better.

Ryan was clocked once clocked at 100.9 in a game against the Chicago White Sox on August 20, 1974. An official record that is listed in the Guinness Book of World Records.

Koufax was once estimated using stop action photography @ 100 mph.

Feller threw against a motorcycle doing 100 mph and beat it to the plate.

In 1917 at Bridgeport Arms Laboratory. Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson and "Smoky" Joe Wood were tested using a gravity drop interval recorder.

Johnson was recorded @ 134 feet per second (about 92 mph)

Christy Mathewson @ 127 feet per second (87 mph)

"Smoky Joe" Wood @ 124 feet per second (86 mph)

 

[Daddycool]

Gibson

Koufax

Seaver

Feller

Ryan

Honorable mention... J R Richard

Cept for Seaver its said the others all topped 98-99 or better.

Ryan was clocked once clocked at 100.9 in a game against the Chicago White Sox on August 20, 1974. An official record that is listed in the Guinness Book of World Records.

Koufax was once estimated using stop action photography @ 100 mph.

Feller threw against a motorcycle doing 100 mph and beat it to the plate.

In 1917 at Bridgeport Arms Laboratory. Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson and "Smoky" Joe Wood were tested using a gravity drop interval recorder.

Johnson was recorded @ 134 feet per second (about 92 mph)

Christy Mathewson @ 127 feet per second (87 mph)

"Smoky Joe" Wood @ 124 feet per second (86 mph)

JR Richard......thats a story of what could have been.

 

[Daddycool]

It's not all about speed.. its also the movement.

For example... Seaver threw in the low to mid 90's but had probably the best movement on his fasball as anyone who ever pitched.

Another example is Armando Bienitez who trew in the upper 90's yet had almost no movement on his fastball...... And everyone in the majors can hit a 95 mph fastball that doesn't move. And I don't need to tell all you mets fans that the harder Bienitez threw a "dead fastball" (what they call a pitch that doesn't move)... the faster that ball left the bat and the ballpark.

Also location, location, location. Maddox and Glavine(just some recent one's) have proved that if you can locate your pitches, you'll get a lot of guys out.

 

[seeker6591]

Gibson

Koufax

Seaver

Feller

Ryan

Honorable mention... J R Richard

Cept for Seaver its said the others all topped 98-99 or better.

Ryan was clocked once clocked at 100.9 in a game against the Chicago White Sox on August 20, 1974. An official record that is listed in the Guinness Book of World Records.

Koufax was once estimated using stop action photography @ 100 mph.

Feller threw against a motorcycle doing 100 mph and beat it to the plate.

In 1917 at Bridgeport Arms Laboratory. Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson and "Smoky" Joe Wood were tested using a gravity drop interval recorder.

Johnson was recorded @ 134 feet per second (about 92 mph)

Christy Mathewson @ 127 feet per second (87 mph)

"Smoky Joe" Wood @ 124 feet per second (86 mph)

thanks Ozzy.

that's quite helpful.

 

[elmo16]

You are correct you can lift weights to help stregthen all muscles your shoulder and elbow. But you will be using a 5-8 pound dumbbell to do so. You can even use those weightes baseballs to help you stregthen your "throwing" muscles, but all of that will not equal 10 mph. Let's not forget flexiablity is just as important as strength to a pitchers.

My point is even with all of that training you will not take someone who throws 82 mph and make him a 92 mph fireballer. With all that training you can take someone from 82 mph to maybe 86 tops, with lifting, flex and mechanics. You need to already throw 90 mph and then add 4-6 mph. But you need to throw 90 first. Thats why I said you either throw 92-95 or you don't.

Did you ever think that adding mph's could hurt a pitcher? Like a sinker baller. With a sinker ball pitcher, being too strong keeps his fastball up in the zone for the batters to hit.

Everyone likes the guy who can throw 95 plus, but Gregg Maddox does it all with only and 88 mph fastball. Tom Glavine in his peak years only threw 88-89 tops. Would you throw either of them off your team?

OK, OK When I said you could take someone who can only throw an 82 MPH fast ball, give him steroids an then get a 92 MPH fireballer, I was pulling a number out of my ass. Maybe a more accurate number is 4 to 6 MPH., but you get my point.

 

[Ozzy]

4 to 6 mph based purely on steroids and no conditioning is already pushing it if not highly unlikely... maybe impossible.

But again it's all moot cause speed doesn't mean a thing in the major leagues. I could care less if you thru 105 mph.... if you can't move it or locate it, any major league hitter shy of some pitchers can turn on a fastball...... it's only leaving the ball park that much faster. Recovery from injuries, maintaining a top physical condition all aside..... Steroids offer no advantage to enhanced performance in a pitcher....Zero, nadda, none. And thats agreed by just about every expert who has ever spoken on the subject. You would be hard pressed to find an expert (and I'm talking about a major league manager or coach... not some obscure little league coach looking for fame) say different.

 

[seeker6591]

I can tell you who I played for and what team, but I'd rather leave out when because if someone knows me on here giving them the college, team and time frame would out me.


I played D1 baseball in college.
Played in the Cape Cod league for the Brewster WhiteCaps during College.
Got drafted in the 2nd round by the Expos.
Went to play class A ball in Vermont.
Got promoted to High A. ( there are many levels of baseball, not just A,AA,AAA) You also don't play a full season as in the majors but "short" seasons.

The following year got promoted to Harrisburg PA, class AA.
This was the real deal. This is what really seperated everyone.

Got through about 3/4 of the year and hurt my shoulder. (hence how I know so much about it). Getting an operation and 9 months of rehab you pick some things up. lol. Although I was an infielder not a pitcher. I played SS.

After I got hurt I tried to return but my arm just couldn't do what it did, so I was released. My arm strength and range was the reason I got drafted. I could hit some too, but would have been more of a doubles guy and hit for average.

But looking back now, Double A was as far I was going to get. I could hit everything but the Ol' number one (fastball). I could hit it okay until it was going about 93-94+. Then I'd have to cheat with my swing and once the pitcher and catcher saw that it was over. I'd have to guess more than just react. I'd do it all over again the same way too if I could go back, even though I didn't make it. So many fun times and stories you pick up. Let's not forget the most important thing....Groupies.

wow, that is very impressive dc.
sorry to hear about those injuries.
i guess your the resident baseball expert on UG!



now about those groupies ????????????????

care to share a story or 2...you know a visual for us civilians ???

thanks !!!!

 

[Mr. Wet Wooly]

DC clearly was the resident expert here even before he revealed his credentials.

 

[Daddycool]

OK, OK When I said you could take someone who can only throw an 82 MPH fast ball, give him steroids an then get a 92 MPH fireballer, I was pulling a number out of my ass. Maybe a more accurate number is 4 to 6 MPH., but you get my point.

With that scenerio I gave you might be able to get 4-6 WITHOUT steroids. Also it seems that, my opinion only and from what I have seen, a guy who already throws 95 and lifts doesn't get the same benefit as a guy who might throw 88. A good example is Andy Petite. He threw 88 mph. So, up for debate, when we worked out with Clemens he went from 88 to 92 mph but Clemens on the same workout just maintained his 94 fastball. It just seems that if you lift it just make you maintain your fastball not give you any more on your fastball. Again this is just what I have seen, doesn't make it right, but just an opinion.

 

[Daddycool]

wow, that is very impressive dc.
sorry to hear about those injuries.
i guess your the resident baseball expert on UG!



now about those groupies ????????????????

care to share a story or 2...you know a visual for us civilians ???

thanks !!!!

Well, like the movie Bull Duram said the all had long legs and blonde hair, but really the lower you were the less good looking the groupies were. In Vermont the girl with 4 teeth was the winner. But you did have some good looking girls there and they did everything they could to get out of there and latch on to you. so after awhile it WASN't fun because you worried about them making something up so you HAD to be with them. A couple of pregnacy scares with teammates made me stop, but not totally, just a lot more careful.

A groupie story. It was a teammates birthday and we went out to have some fun. Needless to say we all got drunk along with some local girls. When things were going to get out of hand, I bailed. Yeah I know pussied out but read above about being more careful. Well the story goes, because I wasn't there first hand the guys did a train on one of the girls and had fun with all her friends.

In Harrisburg it was a lot better. Bars resturants and groupies were all better because it was a bigger city. Same thing though, the girl KNEW you and your scouting report, meaning if you were a stud and had been projected to get to the majors they were all over you. If you were there for your 3rd season you were old news in double A because that meant you peaked and were not going to move on, most likely so you got just a little play.

The best was spring training when you got to be the guys in the show and really see how you compared and of course see their girlfriends. It made you want to make it the majors just to get some of that ass. But my first spring training was the most overwhelmed I have ever felt.

 

[Daddycool]

DC clearly was the resident expert here even before he revealed his credentials.

I wish I was student of the game then as I am now. I would have gone further.

 

[LorenzoDeMedici]

But heres the thing.......

dc <<< I totally respect your credentials, knowledge & insight (and without reviewing my own pitching & coaching related).. You are absolutely correct about the ability of steroids strenthening(or not) the shoulder muscles not increasing the velocity of a pitchers fastball. HOWEVER the mechanics of throwing a fastball has more to do with torque created in the twisting of the hips & legs. Part of this ability is a mastery of creating that torque in perfect syncronization with the arm motion but part is related to LEG STRENGTH. It is not a coincidence that Clemens/Ryan et al will tell you that there main focus is on leg conditioning for that reason amongst others. So the fact is that STRONGER legs(possibly induced by steroids) can lead to an increase in mph depending on the rest of the mechanics being sound. Albeit a slight increase somewhere between 2-4 mph max. However as Ozzie stated this will not help a pitcher unless it has good movement as well, &/or he has good command of other pitches. In the case of Clemens(doing steroids or not). If he has, I think it may have just allowed him to throw faster later than he should have by helping keep his legs strong. He ALREADY had good movement and command of other pitches. This is not completely unlike Bonds & Mac as well(although Bonds was a better overall hitter than Mac) The use of the steroids in affect Mostly increased their ability to stay stronger Longer! They already had the ability to recognize pitches and the swing was already(especially Bonds) designed to make top spin contact on the ball. However the differnce is with improved eyesight and more armor than a Sherman tank, opposing Pitchers could no longer control the inside part of the plate against him.

Just outa curiosity WHo was it that was being quoted as saying the ability to throw faster is genetic.

 

[elmo16]

Not to change the subject (well maybe a little), someone a while back said they loved stories about baseball stars, and since this is a UG board, here goes:

Mickey Mantle was reported to have said that he liked girls with tiny hands because when they grabbed his dick, they made it look huge.

 

[lamont5123]

Ozzy,

You're a piece of crap. You have the nerve to call me a racist and then accuse me of playing the race card and then delete a post of mine you didn't like and claim the thread is about sports and not racism?

What a hypocrite.

But I am not surprised.

You're one of the many people on here who approve of the N-word but get all bent out of shape if someone accuses Israel of something.

Typical, typical, typical.

You phony.

 

[Ozzy]

Where did I ever approve of the N word?

Cause I say "nigga please" to Kimmie on occasion?


Asshole... I deleted your post because it had nothing to do with the topic and instead was another racist tangent of yours... like the one above, which I'll also delete unless you can back up your accusation of me "approving of the "N" word.

And my telling Kimmie "nigga please" is not "approval of the N word".

 

[lamont5123]

I will not post in this forum anymore until I understand it is about sports only.

 

[Ozzy]

Do everyone a favor Lamont... stay in the political forum with your racist accusations.

From this point on if a post of yours doesn't concern "sports" it won't last long.

 

[lamont5123]

Changing people's posts now, are we?

Coward.

Afraid of an intelligent response to your bigotry, eh?

 

[Ozzy]

I changed your post that accused me and many others here of being a racist because Vermeer says the word nigger (that is exactly what you said). I don't have control of Vermeer, I've never said I agree or aprove of anything he says, I have not the power to ban him..... so that makes me a racist?

And you want to have an intelligent conversation?


It was obvious to anyone who read your posts I deleted that you have major racial issues and obviously an anti semite since you somehow dragged jews and Israel into this conversation for no fucking reason (which I deleted)... and you have the fucking nerve to talk about bigotry.


And since you obviously also don't listen and continue to not just keep this thread about 'sports'... it's now closed. If you want to continue it elsewhere... good luck, if you want it open again... e/mail the boss.