Bonds Is A Stinker !!!!

[lamont5123]

{edited}

 

[Ozzy]

.

I didn't say much about Sosa because little anger from the public is directed at him.

Last time I checked Sosa was BLACK.... Hispanic but still black.

Guess that blows a fucking hole in your racist theory huh?

 

[Mr. User Name]

Lamont,
Please explain the animosity expressed toward Maris as he pursued Ruth’s record.

 

[elmo16]

Lamont,
Please explain the animosity expressed toward Maris as he pursued Ruth’s record.

Here is a brief and partial bio of Roger Maris' Major League career.

During his first year in the major leagues, Roger hit 14 home runs and drove in 51 RBI's for the Cleveland Indians. Midway through his second year, Roger was traded to the Kansas City Athletics and finished the season with 28 home runs and 81 RBI's. Roger received attention and in his third year, was elected to the 1959 All-Star team.
After the 1959 season, Roger Maris was traded to the New York Yankees.

This was well before the whole Curt Flood free agent thing. Baseball Fans were not use to Super Stars changing teams, and While Roger Maris was considered a good outfielder, he was by no means considered a Super Star.

I guess the idea of an outsider, an interloper taking the most cherished of all the records in major league baseball away from Mickey Mantle, who was seen as the latest in the line of great Yankee slugging outfielders, a direct decedent of the great Ruth himself, was just too much for some die hard Yankee fans. While Mantle was outgoing, at real fan favorite, Maris was a very shy man, a personality trait that many fans mistook as cold aloofness. This most certainly didn't help him with the fans.

They felt that he had no business taking this most magic of records away from Mantle, and some fans let him know it.

 

[seeker6591]

Ozzy,


Much of the anger directed at Bonds ..........................from people is racially motivated.

That's not playing the race card...that's simply telling the truth.

Perhaps you have not noticed, but the man whose record he happens to be chasing now is black....so your accusations simply do not apply!



what irks sports fans of all races is that Aaron hit his HR's fair and square while Barry Bumms....well errr.. you know....he is a CHEATER at best .

 

[elmo16]

All this talk about a correlation between steriods and pitching made me think of something I experienced. 25 years ago when I was in high school, I weighed about 140LB on a 5'10" frame. Believe me, I was skinny. But, I could throw a baseball far. My softball throw in high school was about 210 feet, but I think it was further because the guys out there recording each throw moved up considerably because they didn't think I could throw far and my throw sailed over there heads. Over the years, I lifted weights, never took steriods and weigh about 200LB. I still consider myself thin, and most people guess my weight at no more than 180LB. Now, I can't throw a baseball 100 feet!

Should I conclude lifting weights and getting bulkier resulted in this or just getting older, or a combination of both?

The muscles you developed lifting weights had nothing to do with throwing a baseball, and most likely interfered with the mechanics of pitching or even throwing. The muscles used in pitching can only be developed by pitching. Little leaguers are told not to try to throw breaking balls as they could injure they under underdeveloped arms and bodies.

Daddycool is correct when he states that pitchers pitch with their legs and that their muscles are smaller then a hitters' muscles (as I am not a sports doctor, I'm really in no position to argue with him). I'm am sure that a pitcher throws with his whole body (think of a whip being snapped).

The pitcher uses muscles in his legs, his knees, his hips, his torso, his back, his chest, his arm, his wrist and this fingers which are all involved in the process of throwing a pitch, and as Daddycool stated, many of them are small.

My point is that they are all muscles just the same and the use of steroids can enhance the performance of all of them, big and small.

 

[Mr. User Name]

Here is a brief and partial bio of Roger Maris' Major League career..

Excellent bio elmo...But I insist on adding the seemingly forgotten fact that Maris (and Mantel) excelled immediately after the league expansion. The talent level was watered down about 25%. The fans were resentful and expressed it against Maris, as they would have against Mantel. That, by the way is the real reason that the asterisk saying 161 games was placed beside Maris' record. We would not expect ML baseball to say that the record was set against substandard competition.

 

[seeker6591]

Excellent bio elmo...But I insist on adding the seemingly forgotten fact that Maris (and Mantel) excelled immediately after the league expansion. The talent level was watered down about 25%. The fans were resentful and expressed it against Maris, as they would have against Mantel. That, by the way is the real reason that the asterisk saying 161 games was placed beside Maris' record. We would not expect ML baseball to say that the record was set against substandard competition.

Hey, the Rodg was great...he was really overshadowed by several other great players on the team.

Joe Pepitone had the same problem!

 

[argleby]

Ozzy,

I don't give a whip why you lose your temper. You're supposed to be an adult.

ACT LIKE ONE!

I stand by what I said.

If you don't like it, feel free to fulminate.

Much of the anger directed at Bonds and at Aaron when he was chasing Ruth from people is racially motivated.

As far as Bonds goes, that is pure and simple bullshit. You don't know what you're talking about. The anger directed at Bonds is because he cheated. Period.

 

[seeker6591]

As far as Bonds goes, that is pure and simple bullshit. You don't know what you're talking about. The anger directed at Bonds is because he cheated. Period.

hey argleby:

that's amazing...we actually agree on something!

i could not have said it better myself.

 

[seeker6591]

The anger directed at Bonds is because he cheated. Period.

if he is such a great baseball slugger...why does he think he needs to cheat ??? certainly..if he was as great a player as he thinks he is and also as great as portrayed by some in the media...he certainly would have no need for steroids or any other controlled substance for that matter !!!

in effect, do it the way Aaron, Ruth and others did it.

instead , he goes through his plausible deniability routine on a daily basis.

he musta learned that from Hil and Bill.

 

[seeker6591]

Continued

instead , he goes through his plausible deniability routine on a daily basis.

he musta learned that from Hil and Bill.

and some fans and reporters continue to buy the act !

 

[Daddycool]

The muscles you developed lifting weights had nothing to do with throwing a baseball, and most likely interfered with the mechanics of pitching or even throwing. The muscles used in pitching can only be developed by pitching. Little leaguers are told not to try to throw breaking balls as they could injure they under underdeveloped arms and bodies.

Daddycool is correct when he states that pitchers pitch with their legs and that their muscles are smaller then a hitters' muscles (as I am not a sports doctor, I'm really in no position to argue with him). I'm am sure that a pitcher throws with his whole body (think of a whip being snapped).

The pitcher uses muscles in his legs, his knees, his hips, his torso, his back, his chest, his arm, his wrist and this fingers which are all involved in the process of throwing a pitch, and as Daddycool stated, many of them are small.

My point is that they are all muscles just the same and the use of steroids can enhance the performance of all of them, big and small.

You are correct you can lift weights to help stregthen all muscles your shoulder and elbow. But you will be using a 5-8 pound dumbbell to do so. You can even use those weightes baseballs to help you stregthen your "throwing" muscles, but all of that will not equal 10 mph. Let's not forget flexiablity is just as important as strength to a pitchers.

My point is even with all of that training you will not take someone who throws 82 mph and make him a 92 mph fireballer. With all that training you can take someone from 82 mph to maybe 86 tops, with lifting, flex and mechanics. You need to already throw 90 mph and then add 4-6 mph. But you need to throw 90 first. Thats why I said you either throw 92-95 or you don't.

Did you ever think that adding mph's could hurt a pitcher? Like a sinker baller. With a sinker ball pitcher, being too strong keeps his fastball up in the zone for the batters to hit.

Everyone likes the guy who can throw 95 plus, but Gregg Maddox does it all with only and 88 mph fastball. Tom Glavine in his peak years only threw 88-89 tops. Would you throw either of them off your team?

 

[seeker6591]

You are correct you can lift weights to help stregthen all muscles your shoulder and elbow. But you will be using a 5-8 pound dumbbell to do so. You can even use those weightes baseballs to help you stregthen your "throwing" muscles, but all of that will not equal 10 mph. Let's not forget flexiablity is just as important as strength to a pitchers.

My point is even with all of that training you will not take someone who throws 82 mph and make him a 92 mph fireballer. With all that training you can take someone from 82 mph to maybe 86 tops, with lifting, flex and mechanics. You need to already throw 90 mph and then add 4-6 mph. But you need to throw 90 first. Thats why I said you either throw 92-95 or you don't.

Did you ever think that adding mph's could hurt a pitcher? Like a sinker baller. With a sinker ball pitcher, being too strong keeps his fastball up in the zone for the batters to hit.

Everyone likes the guy who can throw 95 plus, but Gregg Maddox does it all with only and 88 mph fastball. Tom Glavine in his peak years only threw 88-89 tops. Would you throw either of them off your team?

just curious dc

any idea how fast Tom Seaver's fastball was ???

 

[Daddycool]

just curious dc

any idea how fast Tom Seaver's fastball was ???

Don't quote me, but I think Tom topped out at 92 or so.


From the MLB.com library: Excerpt from article

Today's Pitchers are the Best Ever


The ability to throw an object with great speed is inherited. A person cannot be taught to throw a ninety five-mile an hour fast ball, but refining a pitcher's mechanics and delivery can maximize his inborn ability. Instead of throwing at a maximum speed of 88 miles per hour, the pitcher's fast ball may reach 91 or 92 miles per hour, but an ordinary person who throws a baseball at 65 miles per hour cannot be taught to throw it at 90 miles per hour. The ability to throw an object with great speed is inherited and each person has an upper limit that is genetically determined.

Playing the game as long as I did you just come to understand this. That is why it bugs me so when people give the steroids such a general rule to strengthening everyone and everything.

 

[seeker6591]

Don't quote me, but I think Tom topped out at 92 or so.


From the MLB.com library: Excerpt from article

Today's Pitchers are the Best Ever


The ability to throw an object with great speed is inherited. A person cannot be taught to throw a ninety five-mile an hour fast ball, but refining a pitcher's mechanics and delivery can maximize his inborn ability. Instead of throwing at a maximum speed of 88 miles per hour, the pitcher's fast ball may reach 91 or 92 miles per hour, but an ordinary person who throws a baseball at 65 miles per hour cannot be taught to throw it at 90 miles per hour. The ability to throw an object with great speed is inherited and each person has an upper limit that is genetically determined.

Playing the game as long as I did you just come to understand this. That is why it bugs me so when people give the steroids such a general rule to strengthening everyone and everything.

thanks dc..your input is always appreciated !

not to be a pain in the ass but any idea who the top 3-4 "speed " pitchers are, past and present?

again , my thanks!

 

[Daddycool]

thanks dc..your input is always appreciated !

not to be a pain in the ass but any idea who the top 3-4 "speed " pitchers are, past and present?

again , my thanks!

The standard is walter johnson and Grove.

You know most of the modern day guys who throw 94+.

The Yankees Farnsworth get it up to 98 99.

Billy wagner, who I faced, throws 97+. The ground out to migel ciro(sp) was clocked at 99.

Sidney Ponson O's
smoltz
Schmidit with the Giants

Gibson

 

[seeker6591]

Billy wagner, who I faced, throws 97+. The ground out to migel ciro(sp) was clocked at 99.

wow...I did not realize you played pro ball.

any hints on your activities or do you prefer to remain anonomyous?

 

[Daddycool]

wow...I did not realize you played pro ball.

any hints on your activities or do you prefer to remain anonomyous?

I can tell you who I played for and what team, but I'd rather leave out when because if someone knows me on here giving them the college, team and time frame would out me.


I played D1 baseball in college.
Played in the Cape Cod league for the Brewster WhiteCaps during College.
Got drafted in the 2nd round by the Expos.
Went to play class A ball in Vermont.
Got promoted to High A. ( there are many levels of baseball, not just A,AA,AAA) You also don't play a full season as in the majors but "short" seasons.

The following year got promoted to Harrisburg PA, class AA.
This was the real deal. This is what really seperated everyone.

Got through about 3/4 of the year and hurt my shoulder. (hence how I know so much about it). Getting an operation and 9 months of rehab you pick some things up. lol. Although I was an infielder not a pitcher. I played SS.

After I got hurt I tried to return but my arm just couldn't do what it did, so I was released. My arm strength and range was the reason I got drafted. I could hit some too, but would have been more of a doubles guy and hit for average.

But looking back now, Double A was as far I was going to get. I could hit everything but the Ol' number one (fastball). I could hit it okay until it was going about 93-94+. Then I'd have to cheat with my swing and once the pitcher and catcher saw that it was over. I'd have to guess more than just react. I'd do it all over again the same way too if I could go back, even though I didn't make it. So many fun times and stories you pick up. Let's not forget the most important thing....Groupies.

 

[Ozzy]

It's not all about speed.. its also the movement.

For example... Seaver threw in the low to mid 90's but had probably the best movement on his fasball as anyone who ever pitched.

Another example is Armando Bienitez who trew in the upper 90's yet had almost no movement on his fastball...... And everyone in the majors can hit a 95 mph fastball that doesn't move. And I don't need to tell all you mets fans that the harder Bienitez threw a "dead fastball" (what they call a pitch that doesn't move)... the faster that ball left the bat and the ballpark.