Being Stood Up Really Sucks
- Thread starter fishfry
- Start date
Having hijacked more than a few threads myself, I can't complain when I start a topic and others take it in a direction I don't like.
But I do reiterate my observation that way too many people around here are very quick to start flamewars about other members of the community. In light of other recent events I find it disheartening.
fish
Having been at the G2G in question and personally observing most of the events that evening Ive been watching this tread unfold from the shadows.
I was standing next to Ozzy and John J when B2C got into that other car and I recall JJ saying he was going to meet up with her in an hour. Based on B2C's body language and actions, we all knew (and so did JJ) that it wasnt going to happen. Some of us, went to a local quickie place to end the night (I needed it after having gotten worked up by the show put on at the G2G).
I remember JJ saying he would swing by B2C's hotel even though he new his effort would probably not bear fruit.
JJ, you got dicked over. Plain and simple. The reasons behind it don't matter. It was unprofessional.
Having said that, the following is NOT directed at JJ, B2C or anyone else comments:
The dynamics between john and ho (lets call this "hobby" what it is) astound me. I give respect and expect respect. When I am disrespected, be it by significant other, colleage, friend or foe I respond as I consider is merited. When I am respected, the same is true.
But lets be honest here guys, this is pay for play. While these women deserve your respect as human beings, they also deserve for you to respond in kind when you are disrespected.
I believe you should treat a girl like you are her bf, if she gives you gfe - fantastic.
If you treat her like your gf and she responds like a ho, treat her in kind.
It gets a bit tiring seeing these white knights living in this alternate reality (on these boards and with these women). I see guys putting up with shit from these "providers" that they probably would not put up with in their personal lives. Positive energy should not be expended on someone who dissed you, whether in "real life" or "hobby life".
Im all for taking the ocassional break from reality, but remember, these are prostitutes. Dont be surprised if some of them act like hos. And, when they do, treat them in kind.
I was standing next to Ozzy and John J when B2C got into that other car and I recall JJ saying he was going to meet up with her in an hour. Based on B2C's body language and actions, we all knew (and so did JJ) that it wasnt going to happen. Some of us, went to a local quickie place to end the night (I needed it after having gotten worked up by the show put on at the G2G).
I remember JJ saying he would swing by B2C's hotel even though he new his effort would probably not bear fruit.
JJ, you got dicked over. Plain and simple. The reasons behind it don't matter. It was unprofessional.
Having said that, the following is NOT directed at JJ, B2C or anyone else comments:
The dynamics between john and ho (lets call this "hobby" what it is) astound me. I give respect and expect respect. When I am disrespected, be it by significant other, colleage, friend or foe I respond as I consider is merited. When I am respected, the same is true.
But lets be honest here guys, this is pay for play. While these women deserve your respect as human beings, they also deserve for you to respond in kind when you are disrespected.
I believe you should treat a girl like you are her bf, if she gives you gfe - fantastic.
If you treat her like your gf and she responds like a ho, treat her in kind.
It gets a bit tiring seeing these white knights living in this alternate reality (on these boards and with these women). I see guys putting up with shit from these "providers" that they probably would not put up with in their personal lives. Positive energy should not be expended on someone who dissed you, whether in "real life" or "hobby life".
Im all for taking the ocassional break from reality, but remember, these are prostitutes. Dont be surprised if some of them act like hos. And, when they do, treat them in kind.
Quick Comment......
I have to say I have been impressed with the emails I received in the past few days regarding this little incident. All of which were the furthest thing from hate mail… so a simple thank you is in order.
Fish:
I want to make it clear that in no way am I starting a flame war as you so described in your first response. I was not going to reply again but felt it was necessary after you decided to post a second time "reiterating" your view. What I said in my post was just that. The facts of what occurred in a public arena and the details that occurred prior and also the weeks after. I threw no insults, slander nor disrespect.
However you mentioned something in your initial post that clearly implicates that I wasn't intelligent enough to figure out that the post was intended to discuss the manners of some providers.
You also mentioned:
I noticed in your review of Amber and Friends that you not only posted the original review... But you added four more additional posts.
http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1172
I know you had a bad time, but this is quite excessive. It almost looks like you were on a mission.
I know you've always advocated reviews especially about the bad ones...
Your preferences are noted, but please bear in mind that there were no rumors and in no way a challenge to a pissing contest. If you reread my post there is no mention of me being offended by the UG member (incidentally he never emailed me nor did I ever email him an invite, I believe B2S brought him) who took her away. I was not with them after I left so I refrain from presuming anything. I simply stated the events as they took place.
I surmised my letter with what was clearly an opinion. These opinions are what keep the "balance" on a board such as this.
Fish, I enjoy your posts. You add a lot to this board and for that I credit you.
As you can see in my original post, I was disappointed that I missed out on Brenda. I said that I knew writing this would definitely ruin any chances of meeting her. The truth of the matter is that I would not see her at all, free session or no free session. I felt the post was very relevant to the topic. I felt I was not only "dicked over" that night but also in the weeks after.
So as I mentioned three strikes... she's gone from my playbook.
I have no ill will toward her and wish her all the best. I know the guys love her so I am sure she is at no loss of appointments.
As for me.... I'll have to go back to the 'ol reliables..
I've never played the role of a white night and I don't think this has any mention of me trying to be that. White night implies a rescue. I know nothing of any Provider other than. Make an appointment...try and have fun.
Julie's (Think I will call now in fact) and some of the better independents.
I will post nothing further regarding this.
John J
[Edited by JohnJ on 08-18-2001 at 05:07 PM]
I have to say I have been impressed with the emails I received in the past few days regarding this little incident. All of which were the furthest thing from hate mail… so a simple thank you is in order.
Fish:
I want to make it clear that in no way am I starting a flame war as you so described in your first response. I was not going to reply again but felt it was necessary after you decided to post a second time "reiterating" your view. What I said in my post was just that. The facts of what occurred in a public arena and the details that occurred prior and also the weeks after. I threw no insults, slander nor disrespect.
However you mentioned something in your initial post that clearly implicates that I wasn't intelligent enough to figure out that the post was intended to discuss the manners of some providers.
You also mentioned:
I noticed in your review of Amber and Friends that you not only posted the original review... But you added four more additional posts.
http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1172
I know you had a bad time, but this is quite excessive. It almost looks like you were on a mission.
I know you've always advocated reviews especially about the bad ones...
Your preferences are noted, but please bear in mind that there were no rumors and in no way a challenge to a pissing contest. If you reread my post there is no mention of me being offended by the UG member (incidentally he never emailed me nor did I ever email him an invite, I believe B2S brought him) who took her away. I was not with them after I left so I refrain from presuming anything. I simply stated the events as they took place.
I surmised my letter with what was clearly an opinion. These opinions are what keep the "balance" on a board such as this.
Fish, I enjoy your posts. You add a lot to this board and for that I credit you.
As you can see in my original post, I was disappointed that I missed out on Brenda. I said that I knew writing this would definitely ruin any chances of meeting her. The truth of the matter is that I would not see her at all, free session or no free session. I felt the post was very relevant to the topic. I felt I was not only "dicked over" that night but also in the weeks after.
So as I mentioned three strikes... she's gone from my playbook.
I have no ill will toward her and wish her all the best. I know the guys love her so I am sure she is at no loss of appointments.
As for me.... I'll have to go back to the 'ol reliables..
I've never played the role of a white night and I don't think this has any mention of me trying to be that. White night implies a rescue. I know nothing of any Provider other than. Make an appointment...try and have fun.
Julie's (Think I will call now in fact) and some of the better independents.
I will post nothing further regarding this.
John J
[Edited by JohnJ on 08-18-2001 at 05:07 PM]
John,
This is the kind of post that leaves me in a quandry.
If I let your post stand unchallenged, I run the risk of some readers believing the things you wrote.
On the other hand if I break down your post point by point showing where things have been distorted, taken out of context, or where it looks like you're calling me out for a public pissing contest, then I end up where I don't want to be -- in a public pissing contest.
I'll say for the record that there's some bad energy around this board lately. A lot of people are very quick on the trigger. And that this thread, and the post you just wrote -- especially after having one or two cordial interactions with me in person -- are exactly the reason I'm turned off to this board lately.
For the record, 90% of what you wrote about me above is either outright false, taken completely out of context, and/or looking for a fight that you're not gonna get.
fish
[Edited by fishfry on 08-18-2001 at 05:26 PM]
This is the kind of post that leaves me in a quandry.
If I let your post stand unchallenged, I run the risk of some readers believing the things you wrote.
On the other hand if I break down your post point by point showing where things have been distorted, taken out of context, or where it looks like you're calling me out for a public pissing contest, then I end up where I don't want to be -- in a public pissing contest.
I'll say for the record that there's some bad energy around this board lately. A lot of people are very quick on the trigger. And that this thread, and the post you just wrote -- especially after having one or two cordial interactions with me in person -- are exactly the reason I'm turned off to this board lately.
For the record, 90% of what you wrote about me above is either outright false, taken completely out of context, and/or looking for a fight that you're not gonna get.
fish
[Edited by fishfry on 08-18-2001 at 05:26 PM]
Well just as one poster above said that we shouldn't expend positive energy on escorts who dissapoint, what about the negative energy that is expended on going over a bad experience?
I understand that such revelations or reviews are meant to inform and I think that the original post does that. Everyone knows that a post like that will not go unchallenged or kick up some kind of storm. So the posts usually ping back and forth resolving nothing (and pissing people off along the way) making an even bigger mess a lot of which won't be related to the original issue anyway.
Now I the escort would show up in these threads maybe something might be resolved. That isn't going to happen for fairly obvious reasons, there is nothing to gain for the escort. Yeah, it could be done in the name of customer service and keeping good relations with the clientele. But our effect is negligible in the long run anyway so I would think that it is usually best for them to stay away.
Anyone notice the escorts dropping away from the board again? People scoffed when I said that UG seemed like JAG grad school, but it seems more like it everyday. JAG does have their blowouts from time to time but members usually keep it civil.
And those get-togethers sound better and better all the time. How many mini-storms has the G2G's spawned?
I understand that such revelations or reviews are meant to inform and I think that the original post does that. Everyone knows that a post like that will not go unchallenged or kick up some kind of storm. So the posts usually ping back and forth resolving nothing (and pissing people off along the way) making an even bigger mess a lot of which won't be related to the original issue anyway.
Now I the escort would show up in these threads maybe something might be resolved. That isn't going to happen for fairly obvious reasons, there is nothing to gain for the escort. Yeah, it could be done in the name of customer service and keeping good relations with the clientele. But our effect is negligible in the long run anyway so I would think that it is usually best for them to stay away.
Anyone notice the escorts dropping away from the board again? People scoffed when I said that UG seemed like JAG grad school, but it seems more like it everyday. JAG does have their blowouts from time to time but members usually keep it civil.
And those get-togethers sound better and better all the time. How many mini-storms has the G2G's spawned?
It makes perfect sense for the Julie and April to speak to concerns about their business/service. Though it is their business they know better than to lose their cool and perhaps it is easier because it is not a personal criticism. And I think that they are astute enough businesswomen to know to handle it diplomatically even if they knew the fault did not lie entirely with their house.
Amber posted some examples of what not to do and it was painful to watch.
Even Shhhh, who seemed to post a fairly innocent thread was eventually provoked to do/say things she never intended to in the first place. It's tough out here for the escorts they are outnumbered hundreds to one?
Amber posted some examples of what not to do and it was painful to watch.
Even Shhhh, who seemed to post a fairly innocent thread was eventually provoked to do/say things she never intended to in the first place. It's tough out here for the escorts they are outnumbered hundreds to one?
WSB and Littleguy: My post was obviously sarcastic. I was paraphrasing John's unsympathetic and shortsighted response to my previous complaint about being treated disrespectfully by an agency.
Too many customers in this hobby forget that we are just that: the customers. The ones who pay the bills. The ones who SHOULD expect to be treated right. Yet when someone complains about bad service, there's always a John or ten who leap to the defense, hoping to curry favor in the process. Meanwhile the truth is submerged and other customers are left unaware of key facts that they should know to prevent wasting their money.
The point to John was that it sucks when you have to live by your own harsh principles. No one is immune to humiliation or mistreatment. It is worse when its so public (if in fact the story is true). And most of all, we all think we're the biggest willy around, but there's always some one bigger, richer or badder, either now or later. Its just a matter of time.
Can't say I'm feeling any sympathy, personally...
Too many customers in this hobby forget that we are just that: the customers. The ones who pay the bills. The ones who SHOULD expect to be treated right. Yet when someone complains about bad service, there's always a John or ten who leap to the defense, hoping to curry favor in the process. Meanwhile the truth is submerged and other customers are left unaware of key facts that they should know to prevent wasting their money.
The point to John was that it sucks when you have to live by your own harsh principles. No one is immune to humiliation or mistreatment. It is worse when its so public (if in fact the story is true). And most of all, we all think we're the biggest willy around, but there's always some one bigger, richer or badder, either now or later. Its just a matter of time.
Can't say I'm feeling any sympathy, personally...
Clarity was in short supply
Hmm. I don't think it was so obvious. If not for the last sentence, I would have thought not, but even with your comment about what folks here have told you, I couldn't be certain you weren't sincere. This is why I didn't comment before.
This certainly was true in recent memory, but I can't see that on this thread. Do you? On the contrary, I found this thread to be pretty fair and even handed. John tells us even the emails about the matter have been flame-free.
On a general note, I have to disagree with those who have said they feel that this discourse will have no impact on said provider. TVO may have a loyal following right now, but this kind of behavior doesn't occur with impunity forever. Every one of us now has the image of JJ standing there outside the bar with Oz, MIJ, et al watching B leave. I can fairly taste the experience and it isn't pleasant. Will this be ignored by all reading this thread? I can't imagine so. Will it substantially alter our behaviors? I think so, perhaps subtely, perhaps not.
Again, I have to say I think this thread is a true watershed. A very popular provider has been criticized, fairly or not, and all the players have taken their positions and said their lines and nobody has A) left the board, B) called the critic a liar or C) otherwise lost their senses.
Highly commendable.
Hmm. I don't think it was so obvious. If not for the last sentence, I would have thought not, but even with your comment about what folks here have told you, I couldn't be certain you weren't sincere. This is why I didn't comment before.
This certainly was true in recent memory, but I can't see that on this thread. Do you? On the contrary, I found this thread to be pretty fair and even handed. John tells us even the emails about the matter have been flame-free.
On a general note, I have to disagree with those who have said they feel that this discourse will have no impact on said provider. TVO may have a loyal following right now, but this kind of behavior doesn't occur with impunity forever. Every one of us now has the image of JJ standing there outside the bar with Oz, MIJ, et al watching B leave. I can fairly taste the experience and it isn't pleasant. Will this be ignored by all reading this thread? I can't imagine so. Will it substantially alter our behaviors? I think so, perhaps subtely, perhaps not.
Again, I have to say I think this thread is a true watershed. A very popular provider has been criticized, fairly or not, and all the players have taken their positions and said their lines and nobody has A) left the board, B) called the critic a liar or C) otherwise lost their senses.
Highly commendable.
standing people up, assholes and expectations
Don't know who stood up fish. Don't know B2S other than some close folks liked her first time around. Do know sometimes stories have one side, not two.
Fish dealt with an asshole. If 8% of JJ''s story is even close to true, ditto B2S.
We're all entitled to see whomever we choose -- *if* we tell them that. If we say we'll show and we don't (excepting only severe unforeseen circumstances) ... you guessed it -- ass-hole!
Maybe some stand people up, I don't. Several times I've been unable to make it. I have a very simple test for how important my reason is: if it's important enough that I send the bread anyway, then it's sufficiently important for me not to make it. I do give as much advance notice as possible, explaining the circumstances at least to the extent that I am at liberty to do so. And either I send a pinch-hitter (on me) or I send the bread.
If a Lady no-shows me she breaches a sacred trust as well as a basic principle of life and human relations. If a Lady no-shows me under the circumstances of fish or jj -- that's right, asshole!
Oz, I do not mean to trifle with your very temperate input. But I know you fom JAG and many other places. You speak your mind but you don't take committments lightly. You would not have ever done anything like what Brenda is said to have done here. What other side could there be except "I don't know JJ, never spoke with him, he's on mescaline"? Notably, she has been invisible in this discussionn -- love for her to weigh in and resurrect my prior image of her. But I suspect there's a sheepish shadowy "grin-and-oops" goin on somewhere. Damn effin shame.
Hey wallstreet, you must be reveling in all this pus and bile, huh man?
Don't know who stood up fish. Don't know B2S other than some close folks liked her first time around. Do know sometimes stories have one side, not two.
Fish dealt with an asshole. If 8% of JJ''s story is even close to true, ditto B2S.
We're all entitled to see whomever we choose -- *if* we tell them that. If we say we'll show and we don't (excepting only severe unforeseen circumstances) ... you guessed it -- ass-hole!
Maybe some stand people up, I don't. Several times I've been unable to make it. I have a very simple test for how important my reason is: if it's important enough that I send the bread anyway, then it's sufficiently important for me not to make it. I do give as much advance notice as possible, explaining the circumstances at least to the extent that I am at liberty to do so. And either I send a pinch-hitter (on me) or I send the bread.
If a Lady no-shows me she breaches a sacred trust as well as a basic principle of life and human relations. If a Lady no-shows me under the circumstances of fish or jj -- that's right, asshole!
Oz, I do not mean to trifle with your very temperate input. But I know you fom JAG and many other places. You speak your mind but you don't take committments lightly. You would not have ever done anything like what Brenda is said to have done here. What other side could there be except "I don't know JJ, never spoke with him, he's on mescaline"? Notably, she has been invisible in this discussionn -- love for her to weigh in and resurrect my prior image of her. But I suspect there's a sheepish shadowy "grin-and-oops" goin on somewhere. Damn effin shame.
Hey wallstreet, you must be reveling in all this pus and bile, huh man?
Skagen,
I agree with HN. I re-read your post and it didn't seem to me to be sarcastic at all.
Don't think you should assume everybody remembers everything said in other posts. Tough enough to remember what's said in the current one. Had you "quoted" his other post, I might have gotten it.
No big deal. Sorry I didn't get it.
I agree with HN. I re-read your post and it didn't seem to me to be sarcastic at all.
Don't think you should assume everybody remembers everything said in other posts. Tough enough to remember what's said in the current one. Had you "quoted" his other post, I might have gotten it.
No big deal. Sorry I didn't get it.
I'll throw this in, even if it doesn't pertain to the current "item". If someone makes an "impossible" promise, the preson who believes it bears some of the blame for the end result. If I promised that I would get all 2,000+ members here a date with ivana Milecevic, and I didn't come thru, would it be all that much of a sureprise ?
Now, that is not meant ot totally absolve the person who made the unreliable promise. It's just that sometimes you have to have reasonble expectations, and when someone makes a promise that you know it is unlikely they will keep, you have to temper your expectations and not be quite so dissapointed when the event which you knew or should have known was going to occur ( i.e. the disappointment ). Some of the ingredients which you have to take into account in this soup are the "promise" itself, the events surrounding that promise, the state of mind of the "promissor" and 'promissee", and external factors which ocur to both sides at the time of the "event".
There have been more than one situation comedy episodes revolving around the theme of unrealistic promises and people running around trying to make them work out. it's never quite so funny when you are one of the people in real life who has made one, or has had one made to you.
Now, that is not meant ot totally absolve the person who made the unreliable promise. It's just that sometimes you have to have reasonble expectations, and when someone makes a promise that you know it is unlikely they will keep, you have to temper your expectations and not be quite so dissapointed when the event which you knew or should have known was going to occur ( i.e. the disappointment ). Some of the ingredients which you have to take into account in this soup are the "promise" itself, the events surrounding that promise, the state of mind of the "promissor" and 'promissee", and external factors which ocur to both sides at the time of the "event".
There have been more than one situation comedy episodes revolving around the theme of unrealistic promises and people running around trying to make them work out. it's never quite so funny when you are one of the people in real life who has made one, or has had one made to you.
My last thought or two
On this issue at least.
Slink, you're another one I've known -- sort of -- for a long time. And from way back when I recognized you as a voice of reason, often echoing in the darkness.
But let me ask you this: in a fantasy wordl how does one impose a rule of sobriety in expectations? I am very much the same as any of the Ladies here; I sell my time. (No, boys, no bbbj.) And often I socialize with my clientele. And often in a festive atmosphere. With booze. Breaking up very late. And I have other places I'd like to be. Imagine my client saying "hey, can you meet me after this dinner is over -- *on* the clock, of course?" So I say "Sure!" And then I no-show ... uhhh ... know what, just for giggles let's say it's you with something you perceive (as we all do) to be of earth-shaking importance. So we set a time and a place, you show well after midnight and I never get there. And yes, these assignations of ours are (perceived as) every bit as important as all our other stuff. And the slight must cut as deep.
Now, for egalitarian purposes, let's rotate things 180 degrees. I'm a busy guy. So things get hectic and I no-show a woman. Well, she should have managed her expectations, right, I mean, knowing how busy I obviously am.
Nah. Things can't work in a chaotic structure where people say whatever is the moment's expedient, then let god sort out the bodies.
My take on the right expectations set. Any woman can tell me -- gently, please --- she doesn't want to see me. At a particular moment or forever. I often do ON's with Ladies I've never met. Some -- smarter than me, I suppose -- say no thanks, let's meet first for an hour. Guess what? They're entitled. But if she says yes, that's a debt, an obligation. I should fairly expect she will be a person and arrive, barring some supervening calamity. If she says yes knowing she means no? Well, ... asshole.
Imagine the forest fire had she shown and JJ "assumed" from the circumstances that he had no reasonable expectation that she would, and so went home? Holy jesus fucking christ, what a bonfire.
Leaving now to dismantle my soapbox.
PS Only ever been stood up once, which with all my activity still leaves me batting virtually a thousand, so this is no personal crusade. But I truly would be livid if someone got a buzz or a bettter thing came up or whatever. Sheesh.
On this issue at least.
Slink, you're another one I've known -- sort of -- for a long time. And from way back when I recognized you as a voice of reason, often echoing in the darkness.
But let me ask you this: in a fantasy wordl how does one impose a rule of sobriety in expectations? I am very much the same as any of the Ladies here; I sell my time. (No, boys, no bbbj.) And often I socialize with my clientele. And often in a festive atmosphere. With booze. Breaking up very late. And I have other places I'd like to be. Imagine my client saying "hey, can you meet me after this dinner is over -- *on* the clock, of course?" So I say "Sure!" And then I no-show ... uhhh ... know what, just for giggles let's say it's you with something you perceive (as we all do) to be of earth-shaking importance. So we set a time and a place, you show well after midnight and I never get there. And yes, these assignations of ours are (perceived as) every bit as important as all our other stuff. And the slight must cut as deep.
Now, for egalitarian purposes, let's rotate things 180 degrees. I'm a busy guy. So things get hectic and I no-show a woman. Well, she should have managed her expectations, right, I mean, knowing how busy I obviously am.
Nah. Things can't work in a chaotic structure where people say whatever is the moment's expedient, then let god sort out the bodies.
My take on the right expectations set. Any woman can tell me -- gently, please --- she doesn't want to see me. At a particular moment or forever. I often do ON's with Ladies I've never met. Some -- smarter than me, I suppose -- say no thanks, let's meet first for an hour. Guess what? They're entitled. But if she says yes, that's a debt, an obligation. I should fairly expect she will be a person and arrive, barring some supervening calamity. If she says yes knowing she means no? Well, ... asshole.
Imagine the forest fire had she shown and JJ "assumed" from the circumstances that he had no reasonable expectation that she would, and so went home? Holy jesus fucking christ, what a bonfire.
Leaving now to dismantle my soapbox.
PS Only ever been stood up once, which with all my activity still leaves me batting virtually a thousand, so this is no personal crusade. But I truly would be livid if someone got a buzz or a bettter thing came up or whatever. Sheesh.
"But let me ask you this: in a fantasy wordl how does one impose a rule of sobriety in expectations?"
It's very difficult. Doesn't mean it should be ignored.
But let me alter "your scenario" a bit. You are at a conference with a dozen extremely important clients. You are with the one who provides 50% of the revenue for your entire company. Another of your clients comes up to you and says "You know, I have something I need to talk to you about. Can we have a drink later and discuss my order ?". You're a little drunk, and it doesn't sound too unreasonble, so you say "Sure, why not ?". Well, that number one client ties you up for the rest of the night, with some things which he also thinks is very important. He absolutley will not let you go, and you end up talking to him about his order untill the sun comes up. Now, you stood up that other customer, didn't you ?
( NB: None of the above should be construed as a description of anything other than a hypothetical about Carlk's conference ).
It's very difficult. Doesn't mean it should be ignored.
But let me alter "your scenario" a bit. You are at a conference with a dozen extremely important clients. You are with the one who provides 50% of the revenue for your entire company. Another of your clients comes up to you and says "You know, I have something I need to talk to you about. Can we have a drink later and discuss my order ?". You're a little drunk, and it doesn't sound too unreasonble, so you say "Sure, why not ?". Well, that number one client ties you up for the rest of the night, with some things which he also thinks is very important. He absolutley will not let you go, and you end up talking to him about his order untill the sun comes up. Now, you stood up that other customer, didn't you ?
( NB: None of the above should be construed as a description of anything other than a hypothetical about Carlk's conference ).
How about we talk about reality?
Two observations: First, I really don't understand all the talk about "fantasy". Unless you are into role-play, how does fantasy have anything to do with the hobby? I don't engage in any fantasy while I am with providers. In fact, I am intensely in the there and then, as it were.
That being the case, I don't agree that it's difficult to try and be realistic about the arrangements. I think that the arrangements can in fact be dispensed with quite nicely, given the elimination of subterfuge, intrigue and courtship in general that the hobby affords us. This is a business arrangement. Yes, business can be conducted in a friendly way, but the business must come first.
For the record: I have never been stood up, nor have I ever stood up a provider. I tend to be pretty black-and-white about these things. I confirm and reconfirm and then leave emails and voicemails the day of. Note: I am referring to Indie's here.
Second observation: SB's scenario leaves me feeling just as negatively about his protagonist as JJ's story does about B (If we assume that version is all true, just for the sake of discussion). Treating people poorly is just plain bad business. What happens when that big customer leaves? If you have burned bridges to coddle him, what are you left with when he is gone? Most business people will try and kindly tell the "little guy" that he will have to wait until a better time, perhaps lunch on Monday, to discuss his pressing issue(s). Then of course you do actually call him and have lunch Monday.
No big deal, just good business.
Two observations: First, I really don't understand all the talk about "fantasy". Unless you are into role-play, how does fantasy have anything to do with the hobby? I don't engage in any fantasy while I am with providers. In fact, I am intensely in the there and then, as it were.
That being the case, I don't agree that it's difficult to try and be realistic about the arrangements. I think that the arrangements can in fact be dispensed with quite nicely, given the elimination of subterfuge, intrigue and courtship in general that the hobby affords us. This is a business arrangement. Yes, business can be conducted in a friendly way, but the business must come first.
For the record: I have never been stood up, nor have I ever stood up a provider. I tend to be pretty black-and-white about these things. I confirm and reconfirm and then leave emails and voicemails the day of. Note: I am referring to Indie's here.
Second observation: SB's scenario leaves me feeling just as negatively about his protagonist as JJ's story does about B (If we assume that version is all true, just for the sake of discussion). Treating people poorly is just plain bad business. What happens when that big customer leaves? If you have burned bridges to coddle him, what are you left with when he is gone? Most business people will try and kindly tell the "little guy" that he will have to wait until a better time, perhaps lunch on Monday, to discuss his pressing issue(s). Then of course you do actually call him and have lunch Monday.
No big deal, just good business.
Give me a break....
We are all adults here. Have none of you ever drank too much and passed out when you hit the bed ? I think we have all had this experience at least once in our life. Hang over the next morning. JohnJ as far as you knocking on the door to my room, I am sorry, alcohol did take its toll on me that evening. As far as you calling the room, the phone never rang, or at least I did not hear it. This is the second thread that you have made concerning this evening. Did you get what you were looking for ? Do you feel better? Can I look forward to a 3rd thread????
I stay off line all weekend. This is a wonderful way to start my monday. FYI, I chose the name body2see to try and stay alittle discreet. I imagine this is not possible, you seem to feel the need to keep throwing the name Brenda on the board. Again....does this make you feel as though you have some sense of control??
I have apologised to you more than once JohnJ, I will not do it again.
[Edited by Body2See on 08-20-2001 at 09:19 AM]
We are all adults here. Have none of you ever drank too much and passed out when you hit the bed ? I think we have all had this experience at least once in our life. Hang over the next morning. JohnJ as far as you knocking on the door to my room, I am sorry, alcohol did take its toll on me that evening. As far as you calling the room, the phone never rang, or at least I did not hear it. This is the second thread that you have made concerning this evening. Did you get what you were looking for ? Do you feel better? Can I look forward to a 3rd thread????
I stay off line all weekend. This is a wonderful way to start my monday. FYI, I chose the name body2see to try and stay alittle discreet. I imagine this is not possible, you seem to feel the need to keep throwing the name Brenda on the board. Again....does this make you feel as though you have some sense of control??
I have apologised to you more than once JohnJ, I will not do it again.
[Edited by Body2See on 08-20-2001 at 09:19 AM]