On the subject of condiments...

HawkEye65 · Mar 17, 2009

I almost want to have been on the receiving side to give my perspective from the male side, and I am surprised that nobody here has a story to support you. I have certainly been hurt by women, although not from cheating on me (although one instance is comparable, it was a total emotional disconnect with me due to an external event). And regardless of the circumstances (from generic failed relationship that I thought was going great to a sudden abortion) I have always gone through mixed feelings of anger at the cause of the breakup. Blame the girl, blame the event, blame fate, etc.

It's easy to assign blame, it's hard to objectively evaluate feelings and assign blame where it truly belongs. And in some instances, I think feelings are over-evaluated to justify underlying feelings or beliefs. It's extremely hard (if not impossible) to be 100% honest to others, but for many it's just as hard to be 100% honest with ourselves. Those of us who can (not implying myself) often only do so fleetingly, and then fall back into our pretenses to get by on a day to day basis.

I can say that on several occasions where I was "caught" by my wife for misbehavior (credit card and other things), she made my excuses to protect herself in her cocoon and I broke that cocoon with the truth. She rebuilt her cocoon and we moved on, but that is where she chooses to live so that's that. If that is how she chooses to allow me my "side dishes" I will take it.

SubmissiveAngel · Mar 17, 2009

justlooking said:

yeah, but here's how i view things:

there are my actions (whoring), and then there are the consequences (hurting my sister). just cuz i throw up a bunch of stuff in between me and the consequences does not mean those consequences are not mine. and when life strips one of my manipulations or smokescreens away, well, that's life. like i said earlier, control is an illusion, and i have been reminded of that in very humbling ways.

SubmissiveAngel · Mar 17, 2009

marcinny said:

what fairy tales you guys concoct. how many people do you know who died happily married because a credit card bill did not arrive!

relationships are by definition complex, and people are driven by many forces. if my husband had blamed the end of our marriage on that credit card bill, i think we both would have died laughing.

marcinny · Mar 17, 2009

HawkEye65 said:

Few are those who would admit it "in public", especially men.

I noticed that women speak more openly about it. Maybe the society sympathizes with them when it happens. With men, there is sympathy too but also a sense of ridiculousness. Maybe I am seeing this from the male's angle and this may be a biased description, but it is what how I see it.

I already thanked SA for telling us the story of how she went and contacted her boyfriend's SO. Few people would admit that "aloud".

marcinny · Mar 17, 2009

SubmissiveAngel said:

Well, the worst fairy tale out there wants both married partners to keep their sexual fidelity for the rest of their lives. I wish we were cooked differently.

Once that bill "created" the new reality of course it was the new reality that was important.

Complexity is actually what makes life beautiful. Believe me I am aware of how complex relationships are. The concept of fidelity is also quite complex. Sometimes I think that my SO would be more pissed if she learns that I went with a male friend to that table of that cafeteria where we like to hide from the world and muse about things that we find amazing in our life, than if some paid masseuse touched my pleasure instrument.
Similarly, she would be much more pissed off, probably, if she received that cc bill than if she saw me on the top of a secret and naked girlfriend. Not because of the money, but because of the process of buying a gift, a much more intimate action in her eyes.

Of course, this is only I imagine it. I hope that I will never have the chance to actually see what would happen.

HawkEye65 · Mar 17, 2009

marcinny said:

Not being flippant, but I have thought on this much (having lived the other side and had suspicions) and I don't think I could take action against the other guy. He wouldn't be there if not for her indiscretion, and he had no commitment to me whereas she did, let alone that he might not even know she's married. Whether I would want to beat his ass is irrelevant to the facts.

HawkEye65 · Mar 17, 2009

SubmissiveAngel said:

Probably too many. I think the real question is how many relationships might have been better without all the energy diverted to 1) a secret side relationship or activity and 2) the effort spent in concealing it?

marcinny · Mar 17, 2009

HawkEye65 said:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Give me the last line please. Yes, I know he is not to blame. Too bad for him, he is going down. (I would not seriously hurt anyone... I think.)

HawkEye65 · Mar 17, 2009

marcinny said:

True, but I don't consider this "in public". Still, it is harder for men to open up, that's just the way we're wired, and I actually believe that is a benefit of an anonymous site like this. It's much easier to open up anonymously, and just the telling can be therapeutic. Even more so with the validation and input that can also be received anonymously.

marcinny · Mar 17, 2009

marcinny said:

Not to mention that he could be stronger and faster than me and I could end up being a cuckold in coma.

HawkEye65 · Mar 17, 2009

marcinny said:

Assuming the new "bill" was associated with fidelity, I believe at the time it did a lot to stabilize tribal relations and national issues. As a temporary pragmatic effort it may have been effective, but in the long run has probably caused more harm than good. Then again, when has any species we know focused on the long term as opposed to immediate survival and profit?

justlooking · Mar 17, 2009

"Cuckhold in a coma"?

Come on, you REALLY claim not to be a native English speaker?

marcinny · Mar 17, 2009

HawkEye65 said:

That is why I used the double quotes.

HawkEye65 said:

The problem is that some people create an on-line identity and start worrying about it and its reputation in similar ways that they do with their IRL person. The power of this site stands also on the reputation of some of its hardcore members.

Not to mention that via providers or parties many have put a face to each other screen name and now may be even more embarrassed to speak openly if betrayed or dumped IRL. I even suspect that lack of adequate sexual performance influences their reviews, relations with providers etc.

Yes, there have been people who have spoken openly about their problems, but most of them have been new entries or maybe using different screen names.

Despite of all of these, I completely agree with you that unless you're looking for professional help, this is site is a blessing to its members and many have used in the process of finding answers to their IRL dilemmas, related or not to their relationships.

HawkEye65 · Mar 17, 2009

marcinny said:

Some people need a killing. Fact. Period. One of the low points in my life was being exposed to one of them, but being too much of a pussy to do anything about it. Okay, he was an x-degree black belt with a license to carry a concealed handgun and I was a 19 year old punk, but I still regret not trying (even though I would likely be dead and not on this board right now). I've said before I have few absolutes, this was one of them and I wussed out.

wolf5958 · Mar 17, 2009

SubmissiveAngel said:

Sure I will answer your question...It sucked. I found out after my wife passed away so no closure no confrontation. The guy she cheated on me with was my best friend for over 10 years and with that friendship gone along with it the rest of our little group desolved leaving me standing alone. I could have told his wife and our other friends but I stayed quite, not wanting to inflict my pain on someone else.

In our nearly 22 years of marriage I did not play or fool around. Sure I went to strip clubs but she always knew I always asked her to come along, after all she was a dancer herself.

As you said I still miss her and I guess still love her but I will always have a bit of an open wound.

So there is the feelings from an injured party. There is nothing I can do but inflict pain on others if I choose to disclose what happened. So that is all I can say.

marcinny · Mar 17, 2009

justlooking said:

It comes handy when I want to blame a situation on my poor English.

You are again being too nice to me. I am heading toward 40 so I should stop acting like a genius. I know people who learn languages in their 60s. I took the TOEFL and received 287 out of 300 points, which is quite high, but not even enough to what I want.

Just consider the last case. It must be cuckold with “h”. And then is it "Cuckold in a coma" or "Cuckold in coma"? If you noticed I took the "a" out. I tortured myself a bit over it, eventually opted not to look it up. Do I need "a" or not? These things will stay with me for a long time.

The process of learning is never ending. But as I said earlier, I admire those with superior language skills and those who can build great arguments. Logic, wit and sense of humor are the highest qualities people have.

(OK, I may want to add loyalty, honesty and "sexy female body" in that scale.)

HawkEye65 · Mar 18, 2009

marcinny said:

No, he's really not. The things you challenge yourself on are beyond the average american. You set a higher standard for yourself as ESL than most now with EFL. If anything you speak (ok, write) too correctly to over compensate. And spelling? Have you even paid attention to the posts you read? I thank the rudimentary spell check on this board, but still jump to m-w.com or google often to confirm spelling and usage.

HawkEye65 · Mar 18, 2009

wolf5958 said:

Wolf, when I made my reply I knew there was at least one post that was from the male side, but didn't want to speak for anyone. Perhaps if I read more old posts/threads I will have a better understanding of you experience, but from what I have read to this point I sympathize. Life does suck sometimes, but it's all we have.

P.S. I think very highly of your choice of action (or inaction) to not spread the suffering. Most would follow the "misery loves company" philosophy, and that would be wrong. If it does not achieve a greater good than let it rest, and you did.

SubmissiveAngel · Mar 18, 2009

hey fuzzybear

that sounds so especially shitty, being hurt by not one but two people who are dear to you. if you don't mind me asking, in your situation would you have preferred that either of them was honest with you about things - or do you think it would have been better to not have known at all? xo

marcinny · Mar 18, 2009

wolf5958 said:

wolf, this only confirms again to me what a great and noble person that you are.

I don't want to pass judgment on your late wife, as I don't know the circumstances and the confusing situations she may have found herself in. However, I can't stay without mentioning that your former best friend was apparently a true shithead and scumbag.

While, you can't blame love (it is only human to fall in love with your friend's wife), creating a relationship with her is not a manly thing to do. At least not in my eyes. A true friend will suffer inside and kill the sentiment slowly, choosing instead the emotional sacrifice.

On the subject of condiments...

lil Fuzzybear