"You can't handle the truth!" and other modern myths
- Thread starter Humble Narrator
- Start date
Interesting idea
Perhaps on other boards I would agree, but on UG I would bet the majority of false/misleading posts are efforts to DISCOURAGE choosing a particular provider or service. This is probably due to the prohibition against ad posts. Agreed?
So, we are back to square one: who decides what is "evidence"? Do I as a poster have to have 1st-person experience of the alleged wrong-doing? If so, how much do I have to explain to support my position?
Let me say this plainly: I don't really have an answer to this. I am honestly asking what others think.
I have to agree with your last two major points: White Knights really aren't needed by these ladies and the APM should be just that, but hopefully he is a benevolent dictator (which he is IMO)
Perhaps on other boards I would agree, but on UG I would bet the majority of false/misleading posts are efforts to DISCOURAGE choosing a particular provider or service. This is probably due to the prohibition against ad posts. Agreed?
So, we are back to square one: who decides what is "evidence"? Do I as a poster have to have 1st-person experience of the alleged wrong-doing? If so, how much do I have to explain to support my position?
Let me say this plainly: I don't really have an answer to this. I am honestly asking what others think.
I have to agree with your last two major points: White Knights really aren't needed by these ladies and the APM should be just that, but hopefully he is a benevolent dictator (which he is IMO)
Ozzy --
I have no desire to see you leave UG or any board for that matter. Perhaps you are a bit paranoid and should listen to the good Dr's recommended prescription.
That being said, I seem to recall that you "retired" from JAG on more than one occasion after a disasterous attempt to "protect" another provider. However, you still post there, albeit under a different handle. So I guess I should assume that your offer above is every bit as sincere.
Ciao,
WSB
I have no desire to see you leave UG or any board for that matter. Perhaps you are a bit paranoid and should listen to the good Dr's recommended prescription.
That being said, I seem to recall that you "retired" from JAG on more than one occasion after a disasterous attempt to "protect" another provider. However, you still post there, albeit under a different handle. So I guess I should assume that your offer above is every bit as sincere.
Ciao,
WSB
Several observations about this thread and posts:
1. My big head hurts.
2. My little head is now little.
3. The questions have little to do with logical reasoning.
4. Candide did not say that the APM outed her. She simply said that she was outed (went through #1 - that doesn't sound exactly right) and that the APM is getting good at his job and has people skills. The two thoughts were not necessarily linked.
5. Respectfully, I think Ozzy was in a bad mood. And if it was the APM who outed Candide, then Ozzy disclosed it.
6. It seems (God forbid I should assume -which as we know is the mother of all fuck-ups) that there seems to be some past history between Ozzy and HN. Seems that way but I don't know dick about it and can be totally off base.
7. There definitely is something between Ozzy and WSB, probably nothing more than a disrespect for each others opinon (ok I'm assuming here - so sue me) and I know it predates this Board (as has been pointed out.
7. People here have a hard time turning the other cheek - at least outside of a session.
8. A public board is not really a public board and there is no such thing as freedom of expression because everything has its price.
9. A lot of people love to get in the last word.
10. Decorum and respect should be the guide that everyone should use in posting. I can say without rancor if I don't believe someone. I can also if I wish give my reasons (with discretion for disclosing a confidence). I should never say. Poster A is a liar and a low down sonofabitch and should be banned. The decison to ban someone, rightly or wrongly, must rest with the APM or owner of the site.
11. It probably is not fair for a poster to make statements based on inside information (or what they believe to be such) without giving support, but it certainly is not wrong to do so. That poster will simply have to live with the fact that people may verbalize disagreement or question it for that very reason. So they can post and live with the consequences or refrain. That is their freedom. But freedom has a price. (i've seen too many reruns of The Patriot).
12. No poster should ever mount a campaign (unless runnig for office) against another poster because they disagree with something said - or even if they absolutely, postiively (a rare thing indeed since every coin has 2 sides) know it to be wrong. You can say you disagree and think it wrong but respectfully. Let's leave the mounting to the politicians. Getting horses. And carnal knowledge in positions I can't even dream of achieving any more (Though if any of the ladies would be patient in working with me.... And the mounting goes both ways.) And don't take that the wrong way.
13. Question motivation? Hell, yeah you can question anything you want. Investigate to discredit. What the hell are we - the CIA, FBI, Gestapo. I think we should take ourselves a little less seriously and leave the investigations to Spade Investigations f/k/a Spade & Archer.
14. Demand an explanation if someone is in the minority. Sure why not. But you sure as hell ain't entitled to one. Insinuiate less than honorable motivation without supporting information. Duh, of course not. Probably should be real careful, and certainly careful of how you phrase it, even with supporting information.
15. The APM's role as was aptly put should be as little as possible and when used, used judiciously. But he ain't called the APM for nothing. And as long as his decisions are based on integrity and respect they must be held in that regard also. Anyone can disagree with them, but state so respectfully.
16. Everyone would be better served by taking anything they read on this board, JAG, TBD, etc. with a little grain of salt and skepticism. A measure of doubt I find can be a healthy and protective thing. But just my opinion of course.
16. My big head now really, really, really hurts.
17. So, I think I'll go take care of the little one.
1. My big head hurts.
2. My little head is now little.
3. The questions have little to do with logical reasoning.
4. Candide did not say that the APM outed her. She simply said that she was outed (went through #1 - that doesn't sound exactly right) and that the APM is getting good at his job and has people skills. The two thoughts were not necessarily linked.
5. Respectfully, I think Ozzy was in a bad mood. And if it was the APM who outed Candide, then Ozzy disclosed it.
6. It seems (God forbid I should assume -which as we know is the mother of all fuck-ups) that there seems to be some past history between Ozzy and HN. Seems that way but I don't know dick about it and can be totally off base.
7. There definitely is something between Ozzy and WSB, probably nothing more than a disrespect for each others opinon (ok I'm assuming here - so sue me) and I know it predates this Board (as has been pointed out.
7. People here have a hard time turning the other cheek - at least outside of a session.
8. A public board is not really a public board and there is no such thing as freedom of expression because everything has its price.
9. A lot of people love to get in the last word.
10. Decorum and respect should be the guide that everyone should use in posting. I can say without rancor if I don't believe someone. I can also if I wish give my reasons (with discretion for disclosing a confidence). I should never say. Poster A is a liar and a low down sonofabitch and should be banned. The decison to ban someone, rightly or wrongly, must rest with the APM or owner of the site.
11. It probably is not fair for a poster to make statements based on inside information (or what they believe to be such) without giving support, but it certainly is not wrong to do so. That poster will simply have to live with the fact that people may verbalize disagreement or question it for that very reason. So they can post and live with the consequences or refrain. That is their freedom. But freedom has a price. (i've seen too many reruns of The Patriot).
12. No poster should ever mount a campaign (unless runnig for office) against another poster because they disagree with something said - or even if they absolutely, postiively (a rare thing indeed since every coin has 2 sides) know it to be wrong. You can say you disagree and think it wrong but respectfully. Let's leave the mounting to the politicians. Getting horses. And carnal knowledge in positions I can't even dream of achieving any more (Though if any of the ladies would be patient in working with me.... And the mounting goes both ways.) And don't take that the wrong way.
13. Question motivation? Hell, yeah you can question anything you want. Investigate to discredit. What the hell are we - the CIA, FBI, Gestapo. I think we should take ourselves a little less seriously and leave the investigations to Spade Investigations f/k/a Spade & Archer.
14. Demand an explanation if someone is in the minority. Sure why not. But you sure as hell ain't entitled to one. Insinuiate less than honorable motivation without supporting information. Duh, of course not. Probably should be real careful, and certainly careful of how you phrase it, even with supporting information.
15. The APM's role as was aptly put should be as little as possible and when used, used judiciously. But he ain't called the APM for nothing. And as long as his decisions are based on integrity and respect they must be held in that regard also. Anyone can disagree with them, but state so respectfully.
16. Everyone would be better served by taking anything they read on this board, JAG, TBD, etc. with a little grain of salt and skepticism. A measure of doubt I find can be a healthy and protective thing. But just my opinion of course.
16. My big head now really, really, really hurts.
17. So, I think I'll go take care of the little one.
.Of course it's what you said. Oh you actually expect me to READ posts. I just expanded and expounded a wee bit. Hell, I get paid by the word so I don't know when to draw the line and couldn't draw it even if I knew. What I really know could fit on a pin head (with room left over for what you really know). LOL
a minor clarification (and a big
SC: outstanding post! I'm sorry it has cost you some Tylenol, but I think you were serving the greater good, FWIW.
I don't believe Ozzy and I have ever crossed paths before. He has apparently seen postings of mine both here and on TBD, and I have obviously seen his, but that's it. Ozzy does seem to react rather strongly to my posts, but I don't think it is anything personal and will gladly buy him a beer at the next UG get-together.
My main reason for responding here is to clear up a bit of misinformation (disinformation?) that is making its way around the back channel: I am NOT a former TBD MOD. I have never posted under any other name, either here or on TBD. I am not sure how/why this got started, but I want to state plainly that this is simply incorrect information. I have no affiliation now nor ever with either TBD or UG other than that as a simple poster.
So, thanks again SC. I am glad to see the thread taking this direction.
SC: outstanding post! I'm sorry it has cost you some Tylenol, but I think you were serving the greater good, FWIW.
I don't believe Ozzy and I have ever crossed paths before. He has apparently seen postings of mine both here and on TBD, and I have obviously seen his, but that's it. Ozzy does seem to react rather strongly to my posts, but I don't think it is anything personal and will gladly buy him a beer at the next UG get-together.
My main reason for responding here is to clear up a bit of misinformation (disinformation?) that is making its way around the back channel: I am NOT a former TBD MOD. I have never posted under any other name, either here or on TBD. I am not sure how/why this got started, but I want to state plainly that this is simply incorrect information. I have no affiliation now nor ever with either TBD or UG other than that as a simple poster.
So, thanks again SC. I am glad to see the thread taking this direction.
For the love of Christ and all that is Holy!!!
Fact: The entire internet, let alone an area of the net dedictated to fornication, is full of good people, idiots, great information and crap information. It has always been this way and always will be this way.
I don't see any reason to kill ourselves (and poor SC who developed a brain tumor from reading this thread)over trying to classify posts as 'evidence'. All this bullshit being slung around might be true or it might not. There is so much circumstancial information here who the hell knows what is or isn't true? Each individual needs to make a judgement call on what he reads here and act accordingly. Why do we all need to lay down clearly what will or will not be accepted as evidence? Make your own decisions as the information pertains to YOU.
Furthermore....I think Slinky does a great job here and I have every consfidence that he will handle any posts that are slanderous or otherwise wholly inappropriate.
As for the war of words...While I think you guys are putting too much energy into it, it is entertaining. LOL
MJC
Fact: The entire internet, let alone an area of the net dedictated to fornication, is full of good people, idiots, great information and crap information. It has always been this way and always will be this way.
I don't see any reason to kill ourselves (and poor SC who developed a brain tumor from reading this thread)over trying to classify posts as 'evidence'. All this bullshit being slung around might be true or it might not. There is so much circumstancial information here who the hell knows what is or isn't true? Each individual needs to make a judgement call on what he reads here and act accordingly. Why do we all need to lay down clearly what will or will not be accepted as evidence? Make your own decisions as the information pertains to YOU.
Furthermore....I think Slinky does a great job here and I have every consfidence that he will handle any posts that are slanderous or otherwise wholly inappropriate.
As for the war of words...While I think you guys are putting too much energy into it, it is entertaining. LOL
MJC
Re: Interesting idea
Actually, I disagree. I don't think the ad posts, or the lack thereof, make a board any more or less likely to be subjected to false or misleading posts by johns seeking to "support" certain providers. There are always going to be johns who engage in this activity, some for various forms of compensation, and others out of some sort of misguided desire to help the provider in question. Either way, these posts are misleading to other johns and result in at least some johns seeing providers that the otherwise wouldn't if the had the straight story.
Perhaps I should have avoided the use of the word "evidence", since upon relflection it seems to me that what I really believe is that you should *always* be able to make a reasonable and coherent argument to back-up your assertions. While it is probably impractical to suggest that one must have first hand evidence to support any allegations against other johns or providers, such allegations should at least be based upon information that is not solely within the purview of the accuser.
--WSB
Actually, I disagree. I don't think the ad posts, or the lack thereof, make a board any more or less likely to be subjected to false or misleading posts by johns seeking to "support" certain providers. There are always going to be johns who engage in this activity, some for various forms of compensation, and others out of some sort of misguided desire to help the provider in question. Either way, these posts are misleading to other johns and result in at least some johns seeing providers that the otherwise wouldn't if the had the straight story.
Perhaps I should have avoided the use of the word "evidence", since upon relflection it seems to me that what I really believe is that you should *always* be able to make a reasonable and coherent argument to back-up your assertions. While it is probably impractical to suggest that one must have first hand evidence to support any allegations against other johns or providers, such allegations should at least be based upon information that is not solely within the purview of the accuser.
--WSB
This is the first time I've looked at this thread. Needless to say, it's confusing - especially since Ozzy has apparently chosen to delete all his posts - so it's hard to follow it chronologically.
But the bottom line is this: I can't think of anything more ridiculous or a bigger waste of time than getting into a pissing match with another post-er. Not that I don't have respect for other members, and I know this might come out a little more harsh than I mean it to - but I don't CARE what anyone thinks of me and my opinions, nor do I form opinions on anyone else on here. I appreciate and often follow others remarks on certain providers because that's the purpose of this board. Sometimes I heed advice, sometimes I don't.
And even worse - to get in an argument over "protecting a provider"? Give me a break. Providers don't need our help or protection any more than we need theirs for our businesses. We are all in this for the same reason - mutual benefit. Providers get our money, we get gratification. Wonderful arrangement in my opinion.
So please, stop the bitching. It was this kind of stuff that ruined JAG for a period of time, and I don't want to see the same thing happen on UG. Let's all be friends, share information, and have fun. Personal attacks have no place here.
But the bottom line is this: I can't think of anything more ridiculous or a bigger waste of time than getting into a pissing match with another post-er. Not that I don't have respect for other members, and I know this might come out a little more harsh than I mean it to - but I don't CARE what anyone thinks of me and my opinions, nor do I form opinions on anyone else on here. I appreciate and often follow others remarks on certain providers because that's the purpose of this board. Sometimes I heed advice, sometimes I don't.
And even worse - to get in an argument over "protecting a provider"? Give me a break. Providers don't need our help or protection any more than we need theirs for our businesses. We are all in this for the same reason - mutual benefit. Providers get our money, we get gratification. Wonderful arrangement in my opinion.
So please, stop the bitching. It was this kind of stuff that ruined JAG for a period of time, and I don't want to see the same thing happen on UG. Let's all be friends, share information, and have fun. Personal attacks have no place here.
There comes a time when a person can only take so much bullshit. Allot of you were witness to what happened to "Spanky" on tbd's Philly board. Well it's happening once again to a leading member of UG.
People who have had issues with things Ozzy has done have come to UG to destroy him just they did to Spanky.
AND ALL OF OZZIES SO CALLED FRIENDS ARE LETTING IT HAPPEN Not one of his friends who he's helped in the point have stood beside him in this fight that has thrown him and UG into the gutter.
Ask yourselves this, has Ozzy ever defended or helped you in the past? Well he needs help now and who is going to give part of them selves to help him and to get UG from joining the ranks of failed boards?
People who have had issues with things Ozzy has done have come to UG to destroy him just they did to Spanky.
AND ALL OF OZZIES SO CALLED FRIENDS ARE LETTING IT HAPPEN Not one of his friends who he's helped in the point have stood beside him in this fight that has thrown him and UG into the gutter.
Ask yourselves this, has Ozzy ever defended or helped you in the past? Well he needs help now and who is going to give part of them selves to help him and to get UG from joining the ranks of failed boards?
Ditto to MJC's post from yesterday*. Once you accept that POV,you also can accept the wise maxim
"... never take too seriously anything you read on a [commercial sex] message board."
The call to arms to help Ozzy,while admirable,will only make things worse.
_____________________________________________
BTW- the culture adverted to by MJC is not limited to commercial coitus sites. One only has to look at a board as esoteric as motor scooters to see that a mix of passion,subjectivity,commercialism,and the general mix of humanity to see that there's no monopoly on this.
"... never take too seriously anything you read on a [commercial sex] message board."
The call to arms to help Ozzy,while admirable,will only make things worse.
_____________________________________________
BTW- the culture adverted to by MJC is not limited to commercial coitus sites. One only has to look at a board as esoteric as motor scooters to see that a mix of passion,subjectivity,commercialism,and the general mix of humanity to see that there's no monopoly on this.
Geez Louise
MJC - Just a headache - thankfully no brain tumor (some of my nearest and dearest might argue that a BT wouldn't make a difference anyone because there are no live brain cells there to attack). Other than that minor correction I agree completely.
Slinky - See I do read because I've seeing Ozzy's period I had the exact same reaction.
DannyNJ - Amen, amen, amen. YMMV applies to not only our encounters but with what you read and post here. That's life.
Justme - According to my teenage daugher it's "Duh-uh" and I have to bow to her experience and knowledge. I would say intelligence (and I do think and she is intelligent) but the word seemed to be so incongruous to appear in a sentence with Duh-uh. I'll take sevens anywhere I can get them. Can never have too many sevens. Well, except maybe before you make your point.
Phantom - In my opinion an overreaction. It seems to me that while its nice to have friends and support Ozzy has never been afraid to buck his own broncs.
Pswope - agreed. Can I call you Putney.
MJC - Just a headache - thankfully no brain tumor (some of my nearest and dearest might argue that a BT wouldn't make a difference anyone because there are no live brain cells there to attack). Other than that minor correction I agree completely.
Slinky - See I do read because I've seeing Ozzy's period I had the exact same reaction.
DannyNJ - Amen, amen, amen. YMMV applies to not only our encounters but with what you read and post here. That's life.
Justme - According to my teenage daugher it's "Duh-uh" and I have to bow to her experience and knowledge. I would say intelligence (and I do think and she is intelligent) but the word seemed to be so incongruous to appear in a sentence with Duh-uh. I'll take sevens anywhere I can get them. Can never have too many sevens. Well, except maybe before you make your point.
Phantom - In my opinion an overreaction. It seems to me that while its nice to have friends and support Ozzy has never been afraid to buck his own broncs.
Pswope - agreed. Can I call you Putney.