What do you do when Anti-Depressants don't work?

[fairemily]

Try missing a few child support payments and see how quickly you get locked up. And no, this is not my situation, but I have had to deal with a number of long-term absences by reliable employees caused by exactly this problem. This, to me, is the ultimate counterintuitive policy -- can't pay? Off to jail until you pay. How do you make money while you're in jail? Not my problem.

The only antidepressant most of these guys took was alcohol -- usually in copious quantities. Sometimes that caused even more absenteeism -- but that's another story.

I always looked at having children as a personal responsibility. The courts will also help you if you are just honest with them and show them your income and then the government pays and the father can owe the government over a period of time. This happened to my friend when her baby's father did not have the money. If anyone goes to jail for that it's because they were dishonest with the court. There is a saying don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Take some fucking personal responsibility if you don't want to use protection. Developing a drinking problem is just a lazy and easy way out.

They were man enough to father a child then they should be man enough to help raise that child. These laws were made because too many of them abandoned thier responsibility. I knew a guy who fathered a child during a one night stand in college. He told the women he did not love her and will never be with her but he will be a father to thier son, there was no need for courts because he did the right thing on his terms. He paid what he could and as he made more he voluntarily paid more because he knew it was the right thing to do. He spent weekends with him when possible. There was also a cultural barrier where the woman came from a strict Chinese family but he just overlooked the grief her parents gave him when he picked up his son for visits. He went with his mistake in a moment of lust and didn't blame anyone or become a drunk or dodge his responsibility.

 

[jyris]

...I always looked at having children as a personal responsibility...

Well, of course. I have five kids in private school, and I don't condone abdication of personal responsibility.

Don't forget, however, that there are many men whose income is not steady (think construction workers, salesmen, etc.) Leaving aside that this could easily be one reason why the underlying relationship went bad, it makes it hard for them to "just be honest" with a judge, and I've seen several men in this category sent to jail for nonpayment of support orders, even though they had legitimately been laid off for a while.

And I don't condone their binge drinking, either -- just giving an example of what others do "when antidepressants don't work."

 

[fairemily]

Well, of course. I have five kids in private school, and I don't condone abdication of personal responsibility.

Don't forget, however, that there are many men whose income is not steady (think construction workers, salesmen, etc.) Leaving aside that this could easily be one reason why the underlying relationship went bad, it makes it hard for them to "just be honest" with a judge, and I've seen several men in this category sent to jail for nonpayment of support orders, even though they had legitimately been laid off for a while.

And I don't condone their binge drinking, either -- just giving an example of what others do "when antidepressants don't work."

The thing is though bitterness brings on shadiness. If the laid off gentleman is upfront with undeniable proof to display to the judge there is a better chance something could be worked out and if not appeal. People give a big song and dance when they are angry or bitter because they don't feel they need to explain thier buisness to a person in authority. I could understand being angry if things do not work out as they planned them to be but it doesn't mean you slack off and become untrustworthy. Yes, some people get a horrible judge but I always believed humility not arrogance works better when someone is in control of your life. We all have to eat shit in some way or another.

I also believe in personal responsibility even with my pets. A long while ago ex boyfriend threw me out and I had to wheel and deal and stay in not so comfortable places so I can keep my pets with me. My parents told me I had to let them go but I refused. It was hard and degrading but I took them in off the streets and they are my responsibility and now I am stable and kept all them with me and safe.

My doctor is a brilliant man and in one of his books he mentions drinking as an alternative as a sleep aid. He claims this might give temporary relive but it just creates another problem. I believe in temporary escape but alcohol is dangerous because what you become from it could make the situation worse. I am not a drinker, I never cared for it so I am not sure how it works to escape. I just get a terrible headache and have trouble functioning the next day.

Off topic in a very funny film I watched someone asked a drug addict why he does drugs and he said before he had so many problems and since he started taking drugs now he just has one.

 

[Hyabby]

Oh, Miki ....

Do you remember Miki? Surly you must. She tried like hell to accept her life. She did her best to provide for her children, she tried to see the funny side of life (she even tried her hand at stand up comedy).

No matter how hard she tried, she couldn't come to terms with her life. I think her emotional state contributed to the illness that eventually took her life.

If her extreme state had caused her to find another occupation, another life, no matter how difficult that might have been for her, then her hopelessness, anger, depression, etc. would have been a positive force for a real change, a good change.

I just noticed this thread ... and this post ... and I must comment.

Elmo, it does sound as if you knew Miki fairly well - but remember, I knew her better than anyone alive (at least for the last two, two-and-a-half years of her life). During those years, we shared absolutely everything that two people could possibly share. (And I do not mean physically ... well, that too.)

Your first paragraph - I agree completely.

Your second paragraph - I agree almost completely.

Your third paragraph - not even close.

The woman behind the milf went through many phases in her life, most of which only a very few people around here are aware of, and even those few know only a part. "Miki" was merely the final phase, and it lasted a mere four years. During several of those earlier phases, she was indeed "a positive force for real change, good change." I will not go into detail, but trust me on that.

Even in her final incarnation, as Miki, she was a "positive force" - for the most part. For example, there is one gentleman I know of (spoke with him last Friday, in fact) who she convinced to leave a life of "hobbying" which he was embarking upon at a young age, to find a girlfriend, a wife, raise a family. His firstborn is due in April. There are others I know of who she also influenced for the better, even in this "world of ours."

Yes, her emotional state, her inability to "come to terms with her life" as you put it (a reasonably accurate statement which I would fault only slightly), did contribute to the events which led to her demise at such a young age. With what she found in me (and I in her) she eventually did "come to terms with her life." Unfortunately, by that time, the damage was done. But the years that I had with her were the happiest years of my life - short though they were.

It will be exactly five months on Thursday since she left us. It makes me glad that some still remember her from time to time. I still grieve for her every damn day.

Elmo, I hope that you find the strength to deal with the cards that life has dealt you.

Excuse me while I climb back under my rock now.

 

[elmo16]

I just noticed this thread ... and this post ... and I must comment.

Elmo, it does sound as if you knew Miki fairly well - but remember, I knew her better than anyone alive (at least for the last two, two-and-a-half years of her life). During those years, we shared absolutely everything that two people could possibly share. (And I do not mean physically ... well, that too.)

Your first paragraph - I agree completely.

Your second paragraph - I agree almost completely.

Your third paragraph - not even close.

The woman behind the milf went through many phases in her life, most of which only a very few people around here are aware of, and even those few know only a part. "Miki" was merely the final phase, and it lasted a mere four years. During several of those earlier phases, she was indeed "a positive force for real change, good change." I will not go into detail, but trust me on that.

Even in her final incarnation, as Miki, she was a "positive force" - for the most part. For example, there is one gentleman I know of (spoke with him last Friday, in fact) who she convinced to leave a life of "hobbying" which he was embarking upon at a young age, to find a girlfriend, a wife, raise a family. His firstborn is due in April. There are others I know of who she also influenced for the better, even in this "world of ours."

Yes, her emotional state, her inability to "come to terms with her life" as you put it (a reasonably accurate statement which I would fault only slightly), did contribute to the events which led to her demise at such a young age. With what she found in me (and I in her) she eventually did "come to terms with her life." Unfortunately, by that time, the damage was done. But the years that I had with her were the happiest years of my life - short though they were.

It will be exactly five months on Thursday since she left us. It makes me glad that some still remember her from time to time. I still grieve for her every damn day.

Elmo, I hope that you find the strength to deal with the cards that life has dealt you.

Excuse me while I climb back under my rock now.

I never met Miki, but she shared so many of her thoughts and feelings through her posts on various boards, and her blog, that you got to know her if you paid attention.

Many people are strong enough to endure a hard, even tragic life, and still move on. Some people never recover, never leave the past behind.

 

[Hyabby]

I never met Miki, but she shared so many of her thoughts and feelings through her posts on various boards, and her blog, that you got to know her if you paid attention.

Yes, she never hid her thoughts or her feelings and was brutally honest in her posts and her writings - got her into trouble sometimes, but she didn't care.

Many people are strong enough to endure a hard, even tragic life, and still move on. Some people never recover, never leave the past behind.

So which do you think she was? Which am I? Which are you? (Tough questions, I know ...)

 

[Grateful_jaime]

miki the mom

Do you remember Miki? Surly you must. She tried like hell to accept her life. She did her best to provide for her children, she tried to see the funny side of life (she even tried her hand at stand up comedy).

No matter how hard she tried, she couldn't come to terms with her life. I think her emotional state contributed to the illness that eventually took her life.

If her extreme state had caused her to find another occupation, another life, no matter how difficult that might have been for her, then her hopelessness, anger, depression, etc. would have been a positive force for a real change, a good change.

in another times forgotten space there WAS another occupation another life
there are no what ifs......
she was the happiest woman in the world and the saddest woman all at the same time
let her always be a positive example for everyone
miki was just a blink in time
to me she was mom for 23 years......and no matter what she ALWAYS did right by me
she was who she was and thats all who she was
shes gone now.....she would hate to be talked about like that
please dont anyone make your own assumptions or pass judgments
it just is what it is.......
it was a good run......it was a good life
dont rember her sadness dont look at her story like it was tragedy
remember her undying strength and love
and look at her story for what it really was......
it was a good run

jai guru deva OM-live forever my teacher oh holy one with the vibrations of the universe

 

[seeker6591]

join the scientology movement perhaps?

 

[elmo16]

in another times forgotten space there WAS another occupation another life
there are no what ifs......
she was the happiest woman in the world and the saddest woman all at the same time
let her always be a positive example for everyone
miki was just a blink in time
to me she was mom for 23 years......and no matter what she ALWAYS did right by me
she was who she was and thats all who she was
shes gone now.....she would hate to be talked about like that
please dont anyone make your own assumptions or pass judgments
it just is what it is.......
it was a good run......it was a good life
dont rember her sadness dont look at her story like it was tragedy
remember her undying strength and love
and look at her story for what it really was......
it was a good run

jai guru deva OM-live forever my teacher oh holy one with the vibrations of the universe

Maybe this sums it up best

Kansas - Dust in the Wind

I close my eyes
Only for a moment, then the moment's gone
All my dreams
Pass before my eyes, a curiosity
Dust in the wind
All they are is dust in the wind

Same old song
Just a drop of water in an endless sea
All we do
Crumbles to the ground, though we refuse to see
Dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind, ohh

Now, don't hang on
Nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky
It slips away
And all your money won't another minute buy
Dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind

Dust in the wind
Everything is dust in the wind
Everything is dust in the wind
The wind

 

[elmo16]

The whole point of this thread was there are times when life is too much, and all the pills in the world don't help. If I caused any grief with my post about Miki, I'm sorry. I just thought she was someone we would all remember. The whole point was that she was the happiest and the saddest person you would meet. This thread was about the latter, and how we cope, or don't cope.

 

[wolf5958]

Maybe this sums it up best

Kansas - Dust in the Wind

I close my eyes
Only for a moment, then the moment's gone
All my dreams
Pass before my eyes, a curiosity
Dust in the wind
All they are is dust in the wind

Same old song
Just a drop of water in an endless sea
All we do
Crumbles to the ground, though we refuse to see
Dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind, ohh

Now, don't hang on
Nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky
It slips away
And all your money won't another minute buy
Dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind

Dust in the wind
Everything is dust in the wind
Everything is dust in the wind
The wind

I am sorry it took a while to respond. After reading these verses. I have read this thread and have not commented till now but I needed to maintain a clear train of thought. I know what it is like to lose someone close a partener a lover and a friend. Drugs did not help me hell I wouldn't even see a doctor for it. Tequila was my drug of choice at first. With children to take care of I stopped that as well and just became numb inside. After I lost my son as well I stopped taking care of myself medicaly speaking no doctors no meds. Everyday I woke up with thoughts of suicide, for some reason I never acted on them. Sub conssionly I was slowly killing myself. It has been over a year since I have had those thoughts I am as healthy as I can be today. What ended the slide was a heart attack, and surgery to repair it. Beleive it or not it gave me a new lease on life. I have begun to live again. Still everyday I feel the pain of that loss, everyday I battle the demons. It is a battle that is never over. I almost allow it to win, now I understand it better and know how to fight it. No drugs other than the ones for my heart and diabeties, no alchol, or any other drugs. I am forced to face the world sober and on my terms. You ask what do you do when anti depressants don't work, that is a tough question to answer. The problem is some people will let the dark thoughts win I almost did. There is no real answer to the question. Everybody will respond differently. I wish there was a magic pill or treatment to solve the pain of loss. There is none. Unfortantly that is why some people take thier lives and other try to go out in a blaze of glory. Me I have begun to apprecate the small things in life. Hearing my daughter sing, feeling the sun on my face, or having the wind in my hair. You see of late these things have become my anti-depressants. The answers are always there my friend you just need to seek them. I know I forgot that and it almost killed me. I know others will read this and come up with all kinds of treatments and things of that nature. I know I would not have responded I also know that I was so good at hiding the pain that every body around me thought all was normal. None of my closest friends ever thought anything was wrong. That was the most dangerous part. To be honest if I had not had the heart attack I would still be in that dark place..

 

[fairemily]

I am sorry it took a while to respond. After reading these verses. I have read this thread and have not commented till now but I needed to maintain a clear train of thought. I know what it is like to lose someone close a partener a lover and a friend. Drugs did not help me hell I wouldn't even see a doctor for it. Tequila was my drug of choice at first. With children to take care of I stopped that as well and just became numb inside. After I lost my son as well I stopped taking care of myself medicaly speaking no doctors no meds. Everyday I woke up with thoughts of suicide, for some reason I never acted on them. Sub conssionly I was slowly killing myself. It has been over a year since I have had those thoughts I am as healthy as I can be today. What ended the slide was a heart attack, and surgery to repair it. Beleive it or not it gave me a new lease on life. I have begun to live again. Still everyday I feel the pain of that loss, everyday I battle the demons. It is a battle that is never over. I almost allow it to win, now I understand it better and know how to fight it. No drugs other than the ones for my heart and diabeties, no alchol, or any other drugs. I am forced to face the world sober and on my terms. You ask what do you do when anti depressants don't work, that is a tough question to answer. The problem is some people will let the dark thoughts win I almost did. There is no real answer to the question. Everybody will respond differently. I wish there was a magic pill or treatment to solve the pain of loss. There is none. Unfortantly that is why some people take thier lives and other try to go out in a blaze of glory. Me I have begun to apprecate the small things in life. Hearing my daughter sing, feeling the sun on my face, or having the wind in my hair. You see of late these things have become my anti-depressants. The answers are always there my friend you just need to seek them. I know I forgot that and it almost killed me. I know others will read this and come up with all kinds of treatments and things of that nature. I know I would not have responded I also know that I was so good at hiding the pain that every body around me thought all was normal. None of my closest friends ever thought anything was wrong. That was the most dangerous part. To be honest if I had not had the heart attack I would still be in that dark place..

Sometimes it takes something as shocking as a heart attack to come back to life. It is not uncommon for an occurrence like that actually be a benefit. I think all your feelings are justified considering what you went through. People who think they have it so bad could take a lesson from your bravery. My ex's mother lost both of her elderly parents within a short time period and became so mentally unsound she never bounced back dragging her family with her, it was an extremely selfish act. You kept it together under worse circumstances when alot of people would have really fallen apart and let everything crumble around them.

I know this is not even in the same level as what you endured but I used to worry, had panic attacks all the time, became depressed over nothing, sweated the smallest things. Eventually I developed Bell's Palsy possible due to the stress I put myself under. Losing complete control of half your face for a few months puts things in perspective. It was the best thing that could have happened to me and although I am still a worrier I don't let the small things get under my skin that much anymore and that was the main cause of my depression. I am mentally healthier due to an unfortunate physical ailment.

 

[elmo16]

I am sorry it took a while to respond. After reading these verses. I have read this thread and have not commented till now but I needed to maintain a clear train of thought. I know what it is like to lose someone close a partener a lover and a friend. Drugs did not help me hell I wouldn't even see a doctor for it. Tequila was my drug of choice at first. With children to take care of I stopped that as well and just became numb inside. After I lost my son as well I stopped taking care of myself medicaly speaking no doctors no meds. Everyday I woke up with thoughts of suicide, for some reason I never acted on them. Sub conssionly I was slowly killing myself. It has been over a year since I have had those thoughts I am as healthy as I can be today. What ended the slide was a heart attack, and surgery to repair it. Beleive it or not it gave me a new lease on life. I have begun to live again. Still everyday I feel the pain of that loss, everyday I battle the demons. It is a battle that is never over. I almost allow it to win, now I understand it better and know how to fight it. No drugs other than the ones for my heart and diabeties, no alchol, or any other drugs. I am forced to face the world sober and on my terms. You ask what do you do when anti depressants don't work, that is a tough question to answer. The problem is some people will let the dark thoughts win I almost did. There is no real answer to the question. Everybody will respond differently. I wish there was a magic pill or treatment to solve the pain of loss. There is none. Unfortantly that is why some people take thier lives and other try to go out in a blaze of glory. Me I have begun to apprecate the small things in life. Hearing my daughter sing, feeling the sun on my face, or having the wind in my hair. You see of late these things have become my anti-depressants. The answers are always there my friend you just need to seek them. I know I forgot that and it almost killed me. I know others will read this and come up with all kinds of treatments and things of that nature. I know I would not have responded I also know that I was so good at hiding the pain that every body around me thought all was normal. None of my closest friends ever thought anything was wrong. That was the most dangerous part. To be honest if I had not had the heart attack I would still be in that dark place..

My question to you is this, and it's the kind of question that will make you think about your like, it made me think about mine. The $64,000 question is this:

Can you learn all of Gods lessons in one life time?

 

[jras]

Can you learn all of Gods lessons in one life time?

Sure . Get the Cliff's Notes version.

# one lesson: put your money in that platter as it's passed around the congregation.

 

[elmo16]

Sure . Get the Cliff's Notes version.

# one lesson: put your money in that platter as it's passed around the congregation.

Wash your sticky hands first!

 

[wolf5958]

My question to you is this, and it's the kind of question that will make you think about your like, it made me think about mine. The $64,000 question is this:

Can you learn all of Gods lessons in one life time?

If you look at my post under do you beleive in god you will find that I do not. If there is a god I think that god would be woman. If this has been some kind of test and if you beleive that what does not kill you makes you stronger than more power to you. I do not think there is a devine power. The power is in all of us and it is we that have created this hell on earth and it is only we who can change it. This is all I will say here on this topic...

 

[elmo16]

I woulds agree with you, but how do you explain jras?

 

[wolf5958]

I woulds agree with you, but how do you explain jras?

That is not god that is the church. IMHO the two have nothing to do with each other. The church is hipocritical.....

 

[elmo16]

That is not god that is the church. IMHO the two have nothing to do with each other. The church is hipocritical.....

You know, I agree. God created man, and then man tried to created God. Sometimes I wish God would appear in what ever form he (it) normally takes, and tells us to stop fighting over what we think he (it) is. I wish he would tell us that no one speaks for him, no church, temple or mosque represents him. I wish he (it) got more involved with his creations then he (it) does now.

I know that you may think there is no God, that all of this came about all by it's self, and you are entitled to believe what ever you want. Me, I believe that there is a higher power responsible for all of this, and it expects us to play by a set of rules. I also believe in reincarnation. The way I look at it, our lives are meant to teach lessons. As bas as your life has been so far, it was all part of a grand scheme. You just haven't figured it out yet, and I'm still struggling to figure out mine. I think mine has a lot to do with learning to have compassion for other people, but who knows, it's not like I'm God or anything, I'm just another stupid human.

 

[beeker]

Genisis 1:12 -I have given you all the seed bearing plants and herbs to use-
smoke a HOOTER- repeat as needed