The evolution of a monger and the effect of the PMB

#1
I just finished reading Gavy's thread and instead of hijacking it I thought I'd post something here that may or may not be related but might be food for thought for some of us whoremongers.

I was introduced to whoring prior to my 18th birthday by a guy that I worked for. He took me to a massage parlor and paid for it. I was nervous, excited, and ultimately hooked. It is both a blessing and a curse to learn so early that sex is something that is so easily procured. Knowing that I can easily take care of my sexual urges has impacted every relationship I've ever had with a woman, and it has also altered my view on the world. I can't really argue whether I'm better off for knowing, or whether I'd be better off if I had stayed in the dark.

Not all of that is relevant, however, and this is what I'm really driving at. Prior to the "internet" and PMBs and review boards, I was a dabbler. I'd mostly get R&T services from an AMP, an occasional BJ or FS, or if I was travelling for work maybe I'd call an escort service out of a phone book when in Chicago, or Memphis or wherever else I might be. I had some fun, but it was very much a "side" thing and I lived my life very normally and treated myself to the occasional bit of fun.

Then it happened. I don't really even remember when or how because it wasn't really even an event in my life. But I came across JAG. And while I never participated in the message board, I did read reviews of a place called Julies and the entire scope of my participation in the hobby changed drastically.

Brothels were a foreign thing to me. I was educated, upscale, worked at a Wall Street firm and knew that if I ever got busted in a brothel that I'd be done for. But it seemed like such an easy and safe setup, and I finally took the plunge.

I saw Savannah at a Julies incall in the East 60s, and after hemming and hawing for a very long time about whether to even make an appointment, I was still really freaked out about getting a BBBJ. I hated CBJs, but was so afraid I was going to catch something that I really hesitated. Savannah, however, was such a calming influence and to this day the first real BBBJ/facial I ever participated in commercially is etched into my memory that I still think about it when I jerk off sometimes. And this has to be 10 years ago.

And guess what. I didn't catch anything. I didn't die. Everyone else seemed to be doing it. Nearly all (if not all) of the Julies girls did BBBJ, some TC and some facials. So I became a regular.
 
#2
Nothing really notable happened for a while. I saw lots of girls at Julies, spent a good amount of time at Corporate Affairs (I LOVED when you could call and get the machine and whoever it was with the sexy voice would describe all of the girls who were working--I called it every day, many times more than once--just to hear her voice on tape), and even popped up on UG from time to time. Mostly as a lurker. UG people were hardcore. What could I ever say that could mean anything to anyone here?
 
#3
So some time during the summer of 2003, I read this thread here on UG:

http://www.utopiaguide.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15258&highlight=amyindy

I'm a big fan of a good massage along with a tug, so the review of Amy was useful to me and I saw her and had a great time.

But the point of this, which is hidden because the thread has been altered (apparently it looks like Amy was shilling for herself and so Slinky or someone rewrote the thread to erase any mention of her--which is funny, I saw her for years and had a great relationship with her--didn't know she drew the ire of the APM), is that her ad was on craigslist.

And as anyone who has encountered craigslist for the first time, it is a HUGE eye-opener.

The semi-pro, the non-pro, the UTR, the college girl, the struggling paralegal, etc. all of the sudden became available to the monger, and you could avoid the agencies and the "professional" escorts. You could pay someone $300 and they would hang with you for 3 hours instead of paying a pro $300 for an hour. Give someone $400 or $500 and they would stay the night and fuck the shit out of you as many times as you wanted. WHY? Because they weren't pros, and they didn't understand or care the way the economics were supposed to work.

Then on top of CL itself, there were the CL forums, which were filled with some good stuff and some very toxic stuff because they were unmoderated. Then there were yahoo groups and other groups of people talking about these "non-pro" type girls, and not just about them specifically, but how to negotiate with them, bait them from multiple email addresses so you can get the best deal or the best mileage, and in many cases take advantage of them (I know because I'm a culprit) because they were naive.
 
#4
Why is any of this noteworthy?

Because, the more that I did, and the more "friends" I met online that were doing the same things that I did, my behavior became worse. I did things that I never would have dreamed of doing, spent way more money than made sense to, took risks that were crazy, and somehow have come out the other side of things unscathed.

My associations with other mongers and the PMB community in general changed the "center" of my world, and while I was still doing what I was supposed to do with work, wifey, the kids, etc., I was out there on a near daily basis cruising for the next score, like a drug addict, fucking girl after girl, lying to them, lying to myself, taking risks, engaging in FAR too much BB sex, bragging about it, and being EGGED ON by my peers. There were a couple of guys I knew that were the occasional voice of reason, but I always figured out a way to justify my poor behavior because "look around--everyone else is doing it" with seemingly few consequenses.
 
#5
Pregnancy scares, abortions, broken hearts, betrayal, real love, all of these things were the outcome of my reckless behavior.

I was out of control, but I never THOUGHT I was out of control.

Had I not fallen way too deeply for one of my longer term girls and slowed down my behavior in order to devote more time and money to her (and also to stop fucking other girls BB to reduce any risk to her) I am not sure that I would have slowed down at all.

Amazing that it basically took me falling in love with a woman outside of my marriage to get me to slow down my whoring and use some common sense. Luckily I was able to squash those emotions without ruining my marriage and we have parted amiably without any hard feelings and I still was able to keep myself under a reasonable amount of control.
 
#6
So I know I'm rambling, and I'm not sure any of you care, but after reading about Gavy's arc, I was really curious what his arc would have been had he never been on UG. Had he never met other UG guys who helped to enable him and make his behavior seem normal.

I often wish I could go back and erase many of the things I've done. And I wonder how much of what I did was because that is who I am, or whether I was just running with the "crowd". I do know that I managed to live through my own arc, and I feel like I can keep it under control.

I challenge you all, especially the newbies, to occasionally step back and take a look at what you are doing and who you are, and ask: is this who I really want to be?

I think the world of commercial sex, in many of its different facets, is a vital and healthy part of the world at large. But, as with all things, too much of it is NOT a good thing.
 
#10
I think the world of commercial sex, in many of its different facets, is a vital and healthy part of the world at large. But, as with all things, too much of it is NOT a good thing.
If you go to Mainland China and can speak some Chinese, more or less every woman you meet and want is available.

I'm not talking about the women who work in commercial sex establishments. I'm talking about the women you meet in public places: the airport, the market, the bus or subway, in restaurants, walking on the street, at the gym, at the park, your friend's friend, ad infinitum. Small contributions on your part lubricate the process but aren't essential. The contributions might include paying for a cheap meal, sharing your hotel room so that she doesn't have to sleep in her unheated apartment, giving her a decent digital photo of herself because you have a good camera, or some other non-cash gift.

Is it commercial sex or is it just a different culture?

How many is too many?

How often is too often?

It's an interesting situation.

It's basically the same thing in Flushing with the Chinese women there. Many of these women have few if any male friends in this country.
 
#11
Good post.

What can one say?

If i had remained ingnorant to hobbying, i'd have alot more money in my pocket and mabye would have spent it on reaching some more of my life long goals......or mabye i would have blown it on beer, night clubs or some other form of instant enjoyment.

The key is knowing when you're goining over the limit. I remember one poster wrote a few months back on a simlar thread that he keeps a budget just for mongering. This is a great idea that i also use.
 
#12
If you go to Mainland China and can speak some Chinese, more or less every woman you meet and want is available.

I'm not talking about the women who work in commercial sex establishments. I'm talking about the women you meet in public places: the airport, the market, the bus or subway, in restaurants, walking on the street, at the gym, at the park, your friend's friend, ad infinitum. Small contributions on your part lubricate the process but aren't essential. The contributions might include paying for a cheap meal, sharing your hotel room so that she doesn't have to sleep in her unheated apartment, giving her a decent digital photo of herself because you have a good camera, or some other non-cash gift.

Is it commercial sex or is it just a different culture?

How many is too many?

How often is too often?

It's an interesting situation.

It's basically the same thing in Flushing with the Chinese women there. Many of these women have few if any male friends in this country.
That's interesting in and of itself, but the point I was trying to make is that I imagine that the frequency of encounters and the risks that people take escalate in a fairly significant way once they belong to a community of others that are doing the "same" things that they are doing. They see behavior that they used to think risky as commonplace. They take chances not just for their own satisfaction but so that they can "brag" about them to their "friends" online.

The massage only guy becomes the CBJ guy, the CBJ guy becomes the BBBJ guy, the BBBJ guy becomes a seeker of BBFS, etc. Why? Because he sees others do it, with seemingly no negative consequences. The community validates and enables and even encourages behaviors that guys on their own wouldn't necessarily seek out.

I know that this was the case during my evolution. I can't believe that I'm the only one.
 
#13
If I take your point correctly, one evolves by involving themselves in riskier behavior to perhaps top another person and become a more verified member of a group? I hope that's not the majority of the folks. I'm sorry to hear that as you evolved, the slippery slope became flooded with oil. I would never attempt to or want to understand why people on this board or other boards do what they do. I only know why I do it, it's personally exciting. A new place, a new conquest, but I get off safetly.
 
#14
The thing is that you don't even realize you are doing it, until someone points it out to you or you look back in retrospect.

I will take Gavy's comment on the "how many girls have you fucked poll". Many of us fuck "hookers" because it is less complicated for us married guys. And here we are on a PMB being told, in a poll about how many girls have you fucked that it doesn't count if you paid for it. Most people will disagree with that, but if you were in a smaller tight knit group (like some yahoo groups I've been in) and all you hear is that you aren't the man, you want to be the man. Mob mentality to some extent. And so maybe a guy that rightly fucks "hookers" goes and picks up a girl in a bar or fucks someone at work just to see if he "can" so he can talk about it on the board can run afoul if things go sideways on him.

Not that people aren't responsible for their own actions, but spending your time in an "alternate" universe sometimes skews your perception of reality.

And don't just think I mean "unsafe" in terms of sex practices. I also mean in terms of the amount of time that the hobby takes from your real life. If your life revolves nothing other than finding girls to fuck and then talking about it on a PMB, the effect on your "real" life if you are married or have a demanding job or whatever can be quite negative.
 
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#17
One of the 'problems' with this hobby is that you really cant go around telling everyone about your Excellent Adventures...except on a PMB...like this. Men have to tell somebody about their exploits. They have to let it out somewhere.
 
#19
One of the 'problems' with this hobby is that you really cant go around telling everyone about your Excellent Adventures...except on a PMB...like this. Men have to tell somebody about their exploits. They have to let it out somewhere.
I'm not suggesting that they stop. I'm just pointing out the unintended consequences of the locker room mentality on its members.
 
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