The Economy is dying

[puffin]

I don't blame politicians for taking unpopular positions, I blame them for taking popular positions. There is a reason it is called leadership. Heck, I think Kucinich is a nut, but I respect him for standing by his principals (and his choice in women). I was in favor of Iraq - lukewarm about it, as I recall - but we must admit it, if there is have another attack from someone from the mideast, there will be cries to send in jackboots.

 

[frlix unger]

...................... defense is over 50%.............

I can't follow your calculation.

Let me exhibit, according to your logic and your data source, that the defense budget is not 50% but actually only 25%---------------------
to illustrate 3
National Defense divided by (Total Budget less Social Security)

$738 / ( $3,690 - $738 ) = .25 qed.


I don’t have time to follow your jumping around trying to prove your irrelevant point which may or may not be correct.

It’s all too damn high !!!!!!!!!!!! Not in percent but in dollars.

.........of the discretionary pie.........

I would concentrate on the word discretionary. Is the lock on your front door (assuming that you are not living under a bridge) discretionary ?

I do not believe that spending on National Defense is discretionary------- in doing so I join those guys who determined that raising and supporting Armies and providing and maintaining a Navy are among the limited and few powers of the Federal Government.

 

[fairemily]

it may seem simplistic to you but many people believe this is th e way we have to go, i'm not one of them. the biggest part of the budget is the military. this is the biggest chunk of our tax money going to blow something up over "there'" ????? well we havent found Bin laden yet. wonder where he is??? shooting at taiban and dodging IED'S .. all while printing money that is backed not by Gold but the "full faith and credit of the good ol U.S.A."
Dammm

we're F@%ked Hard , up the ass no lube.

The sad part is that we dont even make shit here anymore. if we did we could have made some money rebuilding Japan. but once again China will do the honors. someone pass the Ky.

When my parents had to replace a cracked tile there was a mark on the back that read "made in occupied Japan". It was surreal to imagine we were once such a great superpower that the tiles in a Queen's home were made by a country we briefly occupied. The other thing that occurred to me is that how great was the craftsmanship of that tile that it lasted over 50 years.

I agree we are fucked because of our addiction of cheap shit made in China sold by the greedy corporations like Walmart. Do you know there is only one American air conditioner manufacture, Frigidaire, you cannot find a pair of Levi's or Nike's (both American companies) made in the USA, the list goes on, look at the made in labels at your next Mall trip and see how bad our import addiction has become. I deliberately look to buy things that are made in the USA which is not an easy task.

To boost our economy Americans will have to do the impossible, buy domestic products. American products are well crafted but I have to admit some of the best products come from other westernized countries like Japan, Italy and Germany. I have a electric indoor grill made in Japan that is over a decade old and is still like new, unfortunately the little company that made it (I think I have the original prototype) was bought out by a Chinese conglomerate and I am sure the product has suffered because of it. The best Tupperware in the world is made by a little Japanese company but it is hard to find, the most durable sneakers I ever owned were made in Italy but were super expensive, Germany excels in natural cosmetics but you can only find online.

We have the capacity to be one a top exporters again but the pride is gone. We have been brainwashed by greedy corporations who has convinced us to buy cheaply made junk over selected quality because they want us to throw away and buy new more often. We are polluting our planet because we the most accessible option is to buy things cheaper that is garbage in a few years instead of a more superior products that are costly but last decades.

 

[h4c]

Dear posters,

Easy solution - why dont all of you work harder, pay higher taxes and take fewer beenfits?

your pal,

h4c, who knows how silly it is to have this discussion on a pmb

 

[LISteve]

Well ... I am self-employed and have paid a TON of taxes, worked my tushy off and paid for ALL of my health insurance and half of all of my emplyees. So it is safe to say that I have done my part.

PS ... I have ceased paying health insurance for my employees. It is too damn high! Where is the "The rent is too damn high" guy. Maybe he can fix this?

 

[fairemily]

Dear posters,

Easy solution - why dont all of you work harder, pay higher taxes and take fewer beenfits?

your pal,

h4c, who knows how silly it is to have this discussion on a pmb

You are wrong, this discussion is in one of the off topic section and it is completely appropriate, if you want all T&A discussions don't come to this section.

The countries that flourish, have less depression, happier people are countries that have longer vacations, work more productive but fewer hours because they are less miserable at their jobs, they have social health care systems and use alternative energy to it's fullest potential. Yes, they are smaller less populated countries but everything you suggest is the opposite of what makes a successful economy according to their models.

We are not a first world country anymore, we are a low second at the very best partly by following your one dimensional generic recommendations. We have become a country of sickly, stressed out, unhappy people and we are losing more of the birthright privileges by the second.

 

[fairemily]

Well ... I am self-employed and have paid a TON of taxes, worked my tushy off and paid for ALL of my health insurance and half of all of my emplyees. So it is safe to say that I have done my part.

PS ... I have ceased paying health insurance for my employees. It is too damn high! Where is the "The rent is too damn high" guy. Maybe he can fix this?

Health care in this country is awful, too many specialties, too many drugs that do the same thing, too many egos that cause lack of cooperation between doctors and the FDA has the few good doctors in such a tight stranglehold they are forced to have their patients suffer then give out legitimately needed painkillers in fear of an investigation.

 

[ereuben]

All the other stuff doesn't matter. Priorities are set in my opinion. Fed taxes will rise, you'll see IMHO. Debating "us vs 'them'" is just a waste of time. We all need access to opportunities. We all need to have the skills necessary for this economy. You can call it welfare or whatnot - not disputing the budget pie chart, just saying that the G8 and allies have chess pieces in place for preserving the "world order" - and it is just that: free trade, rules of law, trade in resources, etc. Great movie is Collapse, if you haven't seen it. Fairemily, thoroughly enjoyed Earth 2100. But if you also noticed - whose gaming all of that during the show the CFR and friends? Not about Obama or Tea Party, welfare or free market. When taxes are high, our economy improves. Most times the powers that be do this when they have control over mobilizing everything, in particular for war.

 

[Poini]

I am sorry for those of you who haven't felt it yet, but we are actually definitively on the upswing now. Its not noticeable, but its what the powers that be like to coin as a Goldilocks economy. We have consistent growth but not enough for it to be a huge boom so interest rates are remaining low.

Jobs will slowly grow it is just taking a lot longer then usual. This is mainly due to big business (100+ mil yearly sales) changing there monetary policies to sort of treat there supplier base as the bank (big problem they all went from paying in 30 days to paying in 90-120 days). Anyway this is the real reason jobs aren't being created yet small business (99 mil and less) isn't creating jobs like usual as fast. Cash flow.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing just going to be slower for things to get back to where they were. And honestly that might not be the worst thing, too much of a boom leads to greed.

As for any of us Americans complaining. Common now guys, what we consider down and out almost anyone anywhere else in the world would love to have.

As for our foreign debt, its always been that way. We will never pay back any of it. Some catastrophe will happen we will help China rebuild or whoever else has our debt and the debt will be forgiven. Its how we've always operated.

 

[h4c]

You are wrong, this discussion is in one of the off topic section and it is completely appropriate, if you want all T&A discussions don't come to this section.

The countries that flourish, have less depression, happier people are countries that have longer vacations, work more productive but fewer hours because they are less miserable at their jobs, they have social health care systems and use alternative energy to it's fullest potential. Yes, they are smaller less populated countries but everything you suggest is the opposite of what makes a successful economy according to their models.

We are not a first world country anymore, we are a low second at the very best partly by following your one dimensional generic recommendations. We have become a country of sickly, stressed out, unhappy people and we are losing more of the birthright privileges by the second.

Dear Emily,

You may be right, but, this is a self-selecting group that does not reflect the economy or even overall societal norms by a long stretch. I'd go so far as to suggest that given the number of chicks who work in massage parlors, hookers, incalls and indies, and the sheer number of guys who frequent these places, posters on UG may be be a limited demographic of all NY mongers as well.

Hence, its a silly discussion for a pmb.

your pal,

h4c

 

[falou]

it may seem simplistic to you but many people believe this is th e way we have to go, i'm not one of them. the biggest part of the budget is the military. this is the biggest chunk of our tax money going to blow something up over "there'" ????? well we havent found Bin laden yet. wonder where he is??? shooting at taiban and dodging IED'S .. all while printing money that is backed not by Gold but the "full faith and credit of the good ol U.S.A."
Dammm

we're F@%ked Hard , up the ass no lube.

The sad part is that we dont even make shit here anymore. if we did we could have made some money rebuilding Japan. but once again China will do the honors. someone pass the Ky.

While you're at it...pass the KI too...

 

[fairemily]

Dear Emily,

You may be right, but, this is a self-selecting group that does not reflect the economy or even overall societal norms by a long stretch. I'd go so far as to suggest that given the number of chicks who work in massage parlors, hookers, incalls and indies, and the sheer number of guys who frequent these places, posters on UG may be be a limited demographic of all NY mongers as well.

Hence, its a silly discussion for a pmb.

your pal,

h4c

I am just one provider in a selected service but I can personally testify that the mongering community covers every demographic that matters, they are all educated socially functioning members of society who just happen to post on a PMB and their opinions are just as valid if not more because they can be more honest here. If you think the guys on the board are living off the grid because they hobby you are mistaken. You might have some issues with the stigma of going to see providers but the average client and member of this board is every man you have ever known in your life, teachers, peers, fathers, brothers, grandfathers and friends.

 

[h4c]

I am just one provider in a selected service but I can personally testify that the mongering community covers every demographic that matters, they are all educated socially functioning members of society who just happen to post on a PMB and their opinions are just as valid if not more because they can be more honest here. If you think the guys on the board are living off the grid because they hobby you are mistaken. You might have some issues with the stigma of going to see providers but the average client and member of this board is every man you have ever known in your life, teachers, peers, fathers, brothers, grandfathers and friends.

Dear Emily,

I dont personally see the stigma, but many do. In fact, society as a whole attaches a real stigma to it, and says the behaviour is so unacceptable that, if you're caught, society through its LE mechanism will impose criminal sanctions on both guys and gals. PMBs make mongering seem OK, and from the posts, such as, "are you LE" etc, only show how uninformed many are about the risks associated with this. I'd go so far as to say that only a small percentage of guys actually act to mitigate their risks in this area.

Actually, I think the guys who 'hobby' are all fairly mainstream. Its actually more interesting to watch the ads on CL or BP to see how chicks are selling and at what price point and then extrapolate to how the economy is doing, because this 'hobby' is mostly about totally discretionary funds being spent.

Because there are many more users on UG than active posters, I find it difficult to label the active posters as 'average'. Just as its equally difficult to label a provider who actively posts here as average or representative of the commercial sexual services industry.

your pal, being serious this time,

h4c

 

[fairemily]

Dear Emily,

I dont personally see the stigma, but many do. In fact, society as a whole attaches a real stigma to it, and says the behaviour is so unacceptable that, if you're caught, society through its LE mechanism will impose criminal sanctions on both guys and gals. PMBs make mongering seem OK, and from the posts, such as, "are you LE" etc, only show how uninformed many are about the risks associated with this. I'd go so far as to say that only a small percentage of guys actually act to mitigate their risks in this area.

Actually, I think the guys who 'hobby' are all fairly mainstream. Its actually more interesting to watch the ads on CL or BP to see how chicks are selling and at what price point and then extrapolate to how the economy is doing, because this 'hobby' is mostly about totally discretionary funds being spent.

Because there are many more users on UG than active posters, I find it difficult to label the active posters as 'average'. Just as its equally difficult to label a provider who actively posts here as average or representative of the commercial sexual services industry.

your pal, being serious this time,

h4c

I guess since I have personally met many posters either at former events or in session I have a better understanding of the demographic behind the handle. I take certain posters opinions very seriously when it comes to social, political and economic matters. There are certain things I was told from my clients prior to the collapse forewarning me of the events that did happen and thanks to that very accurate information I made adjustments in my life to help buffer myself from the fallout. If the mongering community is not mainstream and informed I really don't know who in this world is, the news is completely useless because it's all after the fact. I do not think what anyone writes here regarding serious topics can be considered "silly", quite the contrary. We all live in this world whether we are providers or mongers and things affect us the same way.

 

[h4c]

Dear Emily,

There are lots of activities that society frowns upon, but are actively pursued by people. I'm glad you escaped the downturn, many didnt.

your pal, even though we always seem to disagree,

h4c

 

[fairemily]

Dear Emily,

There are lots of activities that society frowns upon, but are actively pursued by people. I'm glad you escaped the downturn, many didnt.

your pal, even though we always seem to disagree,

h4c

This is a discussion on how valid is a member's opinion on topics other then the industry related. I feel we are just not on the same page as much as disagreeing.

I didn't escape the downturn but I braced myself and made some minor adjustments on how I spend so the shock was not so harsh. I always conducted my buisness with the mentality that the economy was bad (quality over quantity) which worked against me when things were good but helped me transition a little easier when it turned.

 

[jahpickny]

Unless something major happens like a mid east conflict that totally screws the oil production... and with the way dictators are dropping like flies over there it seems likely.... the economy will get better. Not due to any policy or magic dust Obama sprinkles around... but because that's what the economy does after a downturn... it rebounds. It's been doing that along with the market for generations. Then again... a major war (a successful one) is usually best for turning an economy on a dime.

Problem is with all these known dictators falling we don't know what the unknown holds in store for us. And the way most of these revolutions have gone from the October revolution to Castro to the Mullahs to recent democracies like Hammas and Hezbollah in Gaza and Lenenon... we were always better off with the known than the unknown.

Life is full of unknowns thats what keeps the game exciting. one thing i'm concerned about is that we have not fixed any of your problems. ( ex. 2008 banking crisis not fixed, Record foreclosures. iraq , and that other place how about the jobs situation, our solution let go after the middle class union member they have been living it up too long), forget the bankers. Americans seems to have very short attension span. the govt and media knows this and keeps everyone distracted while they are picking our pockets. we are not outta the woods yet, i feel there is another big hit looming for this fall ( maybe sooner) i feel that we are just waiting for the next round of sodomy no lube.

 

[fairemily]

Life is full of unknowns thats what keeps the game exciting. one thing i'm concerned about is that we have not fixed any of your problems. ( ex. 2008 banking crisis not fixed, Record foreclosures. iraq , and that other place how about the jobs situation, our solution let go after the middle class union member they have been living it up too long), forget the bankers. Americans seems to have very short attension span. the govt and media knows this and keeps everyone distracted while they are picking our pockets. we are not outta the woods yet, i feel there is another big hit looming for this fall ( maybe sooner) i feel that we are just waiting for the next round of sodomy no lube.

What changes do you think will help this dire situation? I personally cannot see any savior unless we dramatically change our wasteful and disruptive ways.

Personally, I think the worst crisis we are facing is we are overpopulating ourselves into extinction. We need to stop rewarding irresponsible procreation with a reality shows to the woman who has the largest litter or ******** unplanned births. The worst discovery to happen to humans as a species was in vitro fertilization, there has not been a need for a baby boom in 60 years.

 

[RuffToy]

...Personally, I think the worst crisis we are facing is ...

the lack of leadership and clear, progressive, strategic thinking. We are capable of rising from the ashes IF AND ONLY IF we are governed by brave, long term thinkers who act pro-actionary vs. reactionary. Otherwise we are doomed to be victims of our insistence to patch the potholes instead of the inconvenience of re-paving the entire network,

 

[Ozzy]

Life is full of unknowns thats what keeps the game exciting. one thing i'm concerned about is that we have not fixed any of your problems. ( ex. 2008 banking crisis not fixed, Record foreclosures. iraq , and that other place how about the jobs situation, our solution let go after the middle class union member they have been living it up too long), forget the bankers. Americans seems to have very short attension span. the govt and media knows this and keeps everyone distracted while they are picking our pockets. we are not outta the woods yet, i feel there is another big hit looming for this fall ( maybe sooner) i feel that we are just waiting for the next round of sodomy no lube.

A turn around fixes most of these problems... jobs? What's Obama supposed to do.... start paving roads and bridges and just put 20 million people back to work? It doesn't work like that. You can't put the cart before the horse. Let the market and economy slowly climb and that builds confidence. And with that everyone from small neighborhood business' to Forbes 400's start hiring.

You can't just fix those problems by snapping fingers unless you have a dictatorship type govt and this country won't elect Rudy Giuliani.