The Downfall of the Underground
- Thread starter Slinky Bender
- Start date
Not to overstate things already said but NYC is a VERY expensive city and even more expensive to run a business so... that being said I don't know how after factoring in costs and overhead how any underground place could survive purely by word of mouth. Tina (studio90/ludlow st.) never paid more than $1500-2000 per month for any of her spots and it showed. The latest incarnation of DSS was paying just over $5000. Trust me it's tough to make it without getting the word out to the masses!
To add my 2 cents to this thread:
History: I am giving away my age, but I started exploring NYC's sex trade in the late 70s. While I am horrible at remembering names, dates, locations, etc, I agree with all the historical posts - places like New Paris (where I got awsome FS from a stacked, hot, bleach-blonde just off the bus from Idaho, for about $50 total) - and there were a few of them in midtown, to the Mardi Gras places (all listed in Screw Magazine under the Mardi Gras category; hardly UTR) were incredible. I, too, remember the Show World/place XXX emporiums of Times Square with full contact booths (dozens of girls upstairs, all types, cross-gender "gals" in the cellar), and the live sex shows, with the girls roaming the audience offering a trip to the back room. Yes I made it to the Harmony a few times on Church and on 17th St (I don't remember that it was called the Harmony). Then came quickie incall shops like the white fence place in TriBeCa (no idea what it was called), where the girls would all come up from someplace like South Carolina to work for a month or two. I followed this place, with its friendly, attractive girls of all shapes, sizes and colors, to the 36th St location, then I lost track of it. Then there was that place on 38th, next to Lou G. Seigel's, where you'd walk in and select from a dozen or so very varied girls, go into the large open LD room, and get right down to biz - FS in full view of other patrons/girls. I found all of this with Screw, the Voice, and that NY Sex Guide (or whatever it was called), that I'd buy at the shops in Times Square. I didn't have a 'puter until 97, and didn't find the most useful sites for a while after that.
Obviously, I have no problem with performing in an open, LD-like room. I just love being surrounded by hoes of all sorts - young, old, black, white, thin, thick - skanked out in sleazy outfits, with heels, offering to do things that would make their parents sick, to dozens of guys a night, and then doing those things in an open-air setting. Pure heaven.
As far as what I'd like - extras, baby! Call me part of the problem, but HJs get boring after a while. I need lips - both kinds!
And yes, it's all about money and political ambition. The laws haven't changed that much, but now they're being enforced. And that's why, as I posted elsewhere, NYC voter-mongers must vote as far-left as possible in every election. When the liberals take control, they start adding expensive entitlement programs and growing old ones. To pay for it, they raise taxes and eliminate tax-breaks for new businesses and construction. They drive the corporations out of the city into the burbs. Unemployment rises, neighborhoods empty, hoes (now without their data input or cashiering jobs) move in, followed by sex-trade businesses. It happened in the 60s, and it can happen again. Hopefully before I am too old to enjoy it! Vote Ferrer, New Yorkers!
History: I am giving away my age, but I started exploring NYC's sex trade in the late 70s. While I am horrible at remembering names, dates, locations, etc, I agree with all the historical posts - places like New Paris (where I got awsome FS from a stacked, hot, bleach-blonde just off the bus from Idaho, for about $50 total) - and there were a few of them in midtown, to the Mardi Gras places (all listed in Screw Magazine under the Mardi Gras category; hardly UTR) were incredible. I, too, remember the Show World/place XXX emporiums of Times Square with full contact booths (dozens of girls upstairs, all types, cross-gender "gals" in the cellar), and the live sex shows, with the girls roaming the audience offering a trip to the back room. Yes I made it to the Harmony a few times on Church and on 17th St (I don't remember that it was called the Harmony). Then came quickie incall shops like the white fence place in TriBeCa (no idea what it was called), where the girls would all come up from someplace like South Carolina to work for a month or two. I followed this place, with its friendly, attractive girls of all shapes, sizes and colors, to the 36th St location, then I lost track of it. Then there was that place on 38th, next to Lou G. Seigel's, where you'd walk in and select from a dozen or so very varied girls, go into the large open LD room, and get right down to biz - FS in full view of other patrons/girls. I found all of this with Screw, the Voice, and that NY Sex Guide (or whatever it was called), that I'd buy at the shops in Times Square. I didn't have a 'puter until 97, and didn't find the most useful sites for a while after that.
Obviously, I have no problem with performing in an open, LD-like room. I just love being surrounded by hoes of all sorts - young, old, black, white, thin, thick - skanked out in sleazy outfits, with heels, offering to do things that would make their parents sick, to dozens of guys a night, and then doing those things in an open-air setting. Pure heaven.
As far as what I'd like - extras, baby! Call me part of the problem, but HJs get boring after a while. I need lips - both kinds!
And yes, it's all about money and political ambition. The laws haven't changed that much, but now they're being enforced. And that's why, as I posted elsewhere, NYC voter-mongers must vote as far-left as possible in every election. When the liberals take control, they start adding expensive entitlement programs and growing old ones. To pay for it, they raise taxes and eliminate tax-breaks for new businesses and construction. They drive the corporations out of the city into the burbs. Unemployment rises, neighborhoods empty, hoes (now without their data input or cashiering jobs) move in, followed by sex-trade businesses. It happened in the 60s, and it can happen again. Hopefully before I am too old to enjoy it! Vote Ferrer, New Yorkers!
What killed ASSCon?
I see a lot of discussion about the history of the UG scene and what became of what and why etc. However, I haven't as yet come across any discussion here on what killed ASSCon? As I understand it, the group and their parties lasted for 6+ years. (Though, I only discovered them late in '04). I'm just curious, if they lived through and prospered through the Giuliani era, what exactly killed them this year? Did they just get too greedy and started having too many parties? or did the parties just became too public?
I see a lot of discussion about the history of the UG scene and what became of what and why etc. However, I haven't as yet come across any discussion here on what killed ASSCon? As I understand it, the group and their parties lasted for 6+ years. (Though, I only discovered them late in '04). I'm just curious, if they lived through and prospered through the Giuliani era, what exactly killed them this year? Did they just get too greedy and started having too many parties? or did the parties just became too public?
Or if you want to take a short venture into Queens (about a 10 minute subway ride from Midtown), try Gallaghers 2000, the only mainstream club I bother with these days. You can get a hands-on LD for $20. Daytime is best (less supervision around) . Girls in the day are mainly hot Latinas , with a few Russians thrown in. At night, there are so many Russians, you think you were transported to Minsk
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/speech/adultent/topic.aspx?topic=pornography
I've been searching for the brief by O'Connor in which she defined sex, however I couldn't find it. Maybe I was wrong. The provided link is interesting reading nonetheless.
I've been searching for the brief by O'Connor in which she defined sex, however I couldn't find it. Maybe I was wrong. The provided link is interesting reading nonetheless.
As I remembered the news (again I'm not certain of this) it was during the Clinton/Lewinski scandal, however, I believe the definition was to give a clarification regarding criminal behavior i.e pedophilia, etc. It was a brief not a court ruling.
Since I cannot find this definition on the web, maybe I imagined it, but I don't think I did.
Since I cannot find this definition on the web, maybe I imagined it, but I don't think I did.
FWIW, most prostitution laws define sex as touching another person for the purpose of sexual gratification; prostitution is doing it for a fee. So, handjobs, for example, are sex and just as much prostitution as full service. Whether the cops take it as seriously or not's another story. Hell, by that definition, giving footrubs to fetishists could be called prostitution too.
There's no way one Supreme Court justice is going to be ruling what sex is. A majority of the Court might rule that the 'touching' definition above is reasonable and therefore doesn't offend the Constitution, but that's about it.
There's no way one Supreme Court justice is going to be ruling what sex is. A majority of the Court might rule that the 'touching' definition above is reasonable and therefore doesn't offend the Constitution, but that's about it.
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..BUMP..
I'm gonna try giving this thread a chance to start up again.
Summer is over so I've gotta put the motorcycle away; I ended up buying one after I conceded to myself that the underground had died for now...it opened up new social circles and activities for myself and kept my mind off things...but like I said, Summer is over, it's getting chilly out there so I'm about to get all stir crazy again. Also I'm getting older so feel too old to go to the standard nightclub and frankly just want some ass and to get milked by pretty-slender-nubile young thangs.
I've scouted about as best as I could muster, as with the yahoo groups a search never works you must know the name of the group you wish to investigate to get the page and I just keep coming up with nothing so am quite completely out of touch with what is going on in the seedy underbelly of Gotham and the surrounding boro's/ states.
I've since been to a place here and there but more than not it's just a money hustle and you seem to need to have quite a sizeable amount of disposable income to truly approach satisfaction..I always thought the underground was high mileage for the regular working guy. Anyhow, I'm so out of touch now that I have no clue as to whats going on...well Whats going on nowadays?
I'm gonna try giving this thread a chance to start up again.
Summer is over so I've gotta put the motorcycle away; I ended up buying one after I conceded to myself that the underground had died for now...it opened up new social circles and activities for myself and kept my mind off things...but like I said, Summer is over, it's getting chilly out there so I'm about to get all stir crazy again. Also I'm getting older so feel too old to go to the standard nightclub and frankly just want some ass and to get milked by pretty-slender-nubile young thangs.
I've scouted about as best as I could muster, as with the yahoo groups a search never works you must know the name of the group you wish to investigate to get the page and I just keep coming up with nothing so am quite completely out of touch with what is going on in the seedy underbelly of Gotham and the surrounding boro's/ states.
I've since been to a place here and there but more than not it's just a money hustle and you seem to need to have quite a sizeable amount of disposable income to truly approach satisfaction..I always thought the underground was high mileage for the regular working guy. Anyhow, I'm so out of touch now that I have no clue as to whats going on...well Whats going on nowadays?