TBD closed until tomorrow
- Thread starter whasssup
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GC, you also said "also, note that only two escorts have shown the courage to back him up. {more chuckling}"
C'mon, you're a pretty bright fellow. You know the answer to that. That's because supporting what TBD is doing is just asking new client's NOT to visit them.
Since TBD's post is *alleging* this and *alleging* that about this person, didn't you just recently infer that TBD wouldn't do that without*documented* proof about someone first. If he has the documented proof, why then is he *alleging* GC, I believe you said "police reports and medical reports". Don't need to allege those.
Also, didn't TBD once advertise an "escorts only" board or e-mail list or something like that so the escorts could talk to one another without the guys interferring AND he could let them know about potential troublesome clients. Or am I the only one that heard about that ?
I am beginning to understand a little more of what happend. Vera apparently made her original, somewhat empassioned, post in an attempt to clear someone (ezrlove) that she felt had been unjustly wronged. It appears, GC, that you then sent her a copy of your e-mail to ezrlove, in which it is alleged by ezrlove that you said a *supposed friend* of Vera's told you that Vera is both sharing dirty needles and engaging in unsafe sex. Vera never referred to you in the original post.
Apparently, upon reading that, you sent her a copy of what you wrote to ezrlove. When she read what you wrote to ezrlove, she apparently *lost it* and made the "Guy Catelli" post. She even asked if somebody wanted to see the e-mail you sent ez, but you posted it yourself before she could (would ?).
tomatch,
While it may seem that I am siding with Vera and/or EZ against Guy, I am not. I have no axe to grind with anybody here, in fact, Ms Leigh and I had words ourselves some time ago via e-mail. She probably wouldn't recall the incident but I do. We eventually agreed to disagree.
As someone who actions have been recently (NOT last December) inaccurately portrayed, first apparently by a provider and then passed on and posted about in public by a fellow hobbyist, EVEN THOUGH not specifically named, I am rather sensitive on this issue, perhaps too much so.
TC,
You said "Is he (GC) a Liar? NO"
Not sure myself about that one yet. You don't have to LIE to distort the truth.
You also said "As for your reactions, it's been difficult to gauge. You haven't really defended yourself. My perception is that you've only stated for us to "prove" your guilt. I certainly hope that Guy is wrong, ........ However, if he is right, he is preserving the security of many."
Fortunately, in this country, in theory, one does not have to prove one is innocent. OK, so in real life, one often HAS to do exactly that, but one shouldn't have to. In this gray/shadowy area of provider/hobbyist that we share, I submit we know less about each other than out in public.
Which is why we should be certain of our *facts*. You know as well as I that when somebody jumps up and says "So and so murdered somebody" it appears on Page 1. When that same person retracts their statement, the retraction is on Page 35 in a small column that nobody can find.
I've probably posted way too much on this already. I will try not to post anymore on the subject, but IMO, and from what I've seen and read, I understand why Guy Catelli has been driven away from at least one board that I am aware of.
C'mon, you're a pretty bright fellow. You know the answer to that. That's because supporting what TBD is doing is just asking new client's NOT to visit them.
Since TBD's post is *alleging* this and *alleging* that about this person, didn't you just recently infer that TBD wouldn't do that without*documented* proof about someone first. If he has the documented proof, why then is he *alleging* GC, I believe you said "police reports and medical reports". Don't need to allege those.
Also, didn't TBD once advertise an "escorts only" board or e-mail list or something like that so the escorts could talk to one another without the guys interferring AND he could let them know about potential troublesome clients. Or am I the only one that heard about that ?
I am beginning to understand a little more of what happend. Vera apparently made her original, somewhat empassioned, post in an attempt to clear someone (ezrlove) that she felt had been unjustly wronged. It appears, GC, that you then sent her a copy of your e-mail to ezrlove, in which it is alleged by ezrlove that you said a *supposed friend* of Vera's told you that Vera is both sharing dirty needles and engaging in unsafe sex. Vera never referred to you in the original post.
Apparently, upon reading that, you sent her a copy of what you wrote to ezrlove. When she read what you wrote to ezrlove, she apparently *lost it* and made the "Guy Catelli" post. She even asked if somebody wanted to see the e-mail you sent ez, but you posted it yourself before she could (would ?).
tomatch,
While it may seem that I am siding with Vera and/or EZ against Guy, I am not. I have no axe to grind with anybody here, in fact, Ms Leigh and I had words ourselves some time ago via e-mail. She probably wouldn't recall the incident but I do. We eventually agreed to disagree.
As someone who actions have been recently (NOT last December) inaccurately portrayed, first apparently by a provider and then passed on and posted about in public by a fellow hobbyist, EVEN THOUGH not specifically named, I am rather sensitive on this issue, perhaps too much so.
TC,
You said "Is he (GC) a Liar? NO"
Not sure myself about that one yet. You don't have to LIE to distort the truth.
You also said "As for your reactions, it's been difficult to gauge. You haven't really defended yourself. My perception is that you've only stated for us to "prove" your guilt. I certainly hope that Guy is wrong, ........ However, if he is right, he is preserving the security of many."
Fortunately, in this country, in theory, one does not have to prove one is innocent. OK, so in real life, one often HAS to do exactly that, but one shouldn't have to. In this gray/shadowy area of provider/hobbyist that we share, I submit we know less about each other than out in public.
Which is why we should be certain of our *facts*. You know as well as I that when somebody jumps up and says "So and so murdered somebody" it appears on Page 1. When that same person retracts their statement, the retraction is on Page 35 in a small column that nobody can find.
I've probably posted way too much on this already. I will try not to post anymore on the subject, but IMO, and from what I've seen and read, I understand why Guy Catelli has been driven away from at least one board that I am aware of.
Tank - I am not barking up the wrong tree with you. You made a statement that Guy and I have been attacking each other. I simply wanted you to show proof that I have attacked guy. I haven't attacked Guy and that is fact.
Defending Myself
How am I going to defend something that I did not do? This shit is so twisted that it's not even funny.
Guy straight out lies about a client and a provider and SOME people can still justify it. He claims that I drug woman and that Vera used dirty needles and has unsafe sex.
He has destroyed Vera's career and has tried to ruin my reputation. I really could careless about my reputation. But I will not take part in something that allows such ugly behavior.
I bow out gracefully
Defending Myself
How am I going to defend something that I did not do? This shit is so twisted that it's not even funny.
Guy straight out lies about a client and a provider and SOME people can still justify it. He claims that I drug woman and that Vera used dirty needles and has unsafe sex.
He has destroyed Vera's career and has tried to ruin my reputation. I really could careless about my reputation. But I will not take part in something that allows such ugly behavior.
I bow out gracefully
Asking me for proof is...
Barking up the wrong tree.
Outing yourself about the drug thing (because no one knew who the accusations were directed at before you claimed responsibility)... was barking up the wrong tree.
Jumping to conclusions about Aids and HIV when all Guy really talked about was getting Detox... is barking up the wrong tree...
Barking up the wrong tree.
Outing yourself about the drug thing (because no one knew who the accusations were directed at before you claimed responsibility)... was barking up the wrong tree.
Jumping to conclusions about Aids and HIV when all Guy really talked about was getting Detox... is barking up the wrong tree...
guy....
you seriously worry me, because of the goings on in the last few days, you have convinced me to NEVER EVER see another tbd girl again. i'm also at the point of not posting anywhere agian (including UG)because every time a girl gets a bug up her ass and the unlucky person who might happen to have been with her when it happened.....is in deep trouble with you. accusations of drug use have no place on this or any public board.
[Edited by Ozzy on 04-25-2001 at 05:29 PM]
you seriously worry me, because of the goings on in the last few days, you have convinced me to NEVER EVER see another tbd girl again. i'm also at the point of not posting anywhere agian (including UG)because every time a girl gets a bug up her ass and the unlucky person who might happen to have been with her when it happened.....is in deep trouble with you. accusations of drug use have no place on this or any public board.
[Edited by Ozzy on 04-25-2001 at 05:29 PM]
TC,
Where I disagree with you is that if someone writes to you, and tells you that the reason that they are writing is that they don't want anyone to contract a painful and fatal disease, then goes on to say that they have heard rumours that a peson with whom you are ( whatever ) is both sharing dirty needles and engaging in unsafe sex, and then goes on to say that they spoke with the person and the perosan sounded very ill,.....then in my book it is tantamount to making the accusation of HIV/AIDS.
It doesn't matter if you craft your words very carefully so that you can later deny you made any direct accusations. In such a case it is fairly clear what you intended the reader to take away from your communication.
Where I disagree with you is that if someone writes to you, and tells you that the reason that they are writing is that they don't want anyone to contract a painful and fatal disease, then goes on to say that they have heard rumours that a peson with whom you are ( whatever ) is both sharing dirty needles and engaging in unsafe sex, and then goes on to say that they spoke with the person and the perosan sounded very ill,.....then in my book it is tantamount to making the accusation of HIV/AIDS.
It doesn't matter if you craft your words very carefully so that you can later deny you made any direct accusations. In such a case it is fairly clear what you intended the reader to take away from your communication.
I guess the last one was a little stretch...
an accusation or not, it was an entirely private affair and would not have harmed Vera's career if it were taken care of discreetly (the accusation that was). The only thing that could have happened if aired publicly was everyone attacking Guy for writing what he did. I most certainly disagree with him for even writing to EZ about the entire subject. Vera destroyed her own career by bringing the subject public.
Yes, the letter was crafted with Plausable Deniability in mind. Ez destroyed his own credibility, Guy gave him enough rope to do it... Who do we get angry with? Who do we persecute?
Do I know Guy Catelli? somewhat. I do believe that he genuinely has a great concern for providers. For him to cause harm to one is unspeakable to him. I think he would drop kick EZ at the drop of a hat, but Vera, that's the rub. Would he harm Vera to get to EZ? If I were Catelli? Hell Ya... But I ain't Catelli and his track record says he wouldn't.
I'm sorry now, but it seems I have fallen off the fence.
an accusation or not, it was an entirely private affair and would not have harmed Vera's career if it were taken care of discreetly (the accusation that was). The only thing that could have happened if aired publicly was everyone attacking Guy for writing what he did. I most certainly disagree with him for even writing to EZ about the entire subject. Vera destroyed her own career by bringing the subject public.
Yes, the letter was crafted with Plausable Deniability in mind. Ez destroyed his own credibility, Guy gave him enough rope to do it... Who do we get angry with? Who do we persecute?
Do I know Guy Catelli? somewhat. I do believe that he genuinely has a great concern for providers. For him to cause harm to one is unspeakable to him. I think he would drop kick EZ at the drop of a hat, but Vera, that's the rub. Would he harm Vera to get to EZ? If I were Catelli? Hell Ya... But I ain't Catelli and his track record says he wouldn't.
I'm sorry now, but it seems I have fallen off the fence.
guy....
one more thing, and i can say this more than anyone else here on this board because i was in a position similar to yours(defending a provider) with a poster who is on this board and in this thread......
he had the exact same accusations brought against him as EZ, by a girl i was close to, yet i never mentioned his name or posted his personal info because i wasn't 100% sure what happened in that room.....now we got into it but it had nothing to do with what actually happened between he and this girl. you have gone out of your way to destroy EZ over something that you have third or fourth hand knowelege of.....i heard it from the source and i still said nothing other than what this girl claimed happened to her and only said that, when pressed by numerous people to out him or give details of what happened.
now as far as vera.... i don't know her, never met her. i even warned a friend about seeing her when i discovered that she was a loose cannon who liked to talk about her clients to certain high profile board operators.....still you are way out of bounds in discussing anything about her health without any documented proof. even then i'm sure there are laws about such things. were you in the room when she reached for a second hand needle or shot up? did you ever see track marks on her? did you see her stash or wittness her buying anything? did you somehow manage to catch a glimpse of her medical records? if you can't answer yes to anything than you're way out of bounds.
[Edited by Ozzy on 04-25-2001 at 05:33 PM]
one more thing, and i can say this more than anyone else here on this board because i was in a position similar to yours(defending a provider) with a poster who is on this board and in this thread......
he had the exact same accusations brought against him as EZ, by a girl i was close to, yet i never mentioned his name or posted his personal info because i wasn't 100% sure what happened in that room.....now we got into it but it had nothing to do with what actually happened between he and this girl. you have gone out of your way to destroy EZ over something that you have third or fourth hand knowelege of.....i heard it from the source and i still said nothing other than what this girl claimed happened to her and only said that, when pressed by numerous people to out him or give details of what happened.
now as far as vera.... i don't know her, never met her. i even warned a friend about seeing her when i discovered that she was a loose cannon who liked to talk about her clients to certain high profile board operators.....still you are way out of bounds in discussing anything about her health without any documented proof. even then i'm sure there are laws about such things. were you in the room when she reached for a second hand needle or shot up? did you ever see track marks on her? did you see her stash or wittness her buying anything? did you somehow manage to catch a glimpse of her medical records? if you can't answer yes to anything than you're way out of bounds.
[Edited by Ozzy on 04-25-2001 at 05:33 PM]
TC,
So what you are saying is that you see it that GC sent a letter to someone he wanted to destroy, in which he ( in one form or another ) accused VL of being HIV positive ( or at least wanted EZR to believe she was), but that showed no ill will towards VL ? While I agree with you about what GC's track record on how he feels about providers, I can not see any circumstances under which such a letter can not be thought of as anything but harmful to VL. Especially considering to whom the letter was addressed. I do not in any way believe that Guy was really interested in "saving" EZR from anything. If he were truly interested in "saving" VL, I highly doubt he would have chosen EZR as his "tool" to do so. As you say, the purpose of the letter was to give EZR enough rope to hang himswelf with. Considering his opinion of EZR, it also can not be thought of as anything else than to harm both him and VL.
So what you are saying is that you see it that GC sent a letter to someone he wanted to destroy, in which he ( in one form or another ) accused VL of being HIV positive ( or at least wanted EZR to believe she was), but that showed no ill will towards VL ? While I agree with you about what GC's track record on how he feels about providers, I can not see any circumstances under which such a letter can not be thought of as anything but harmful to VL. Especially considering to whom the letter was addressed. I do not in any way believe that Guy was really interested in "saving" EZR from anything. If he were truly interested in "saving" VL, I highly doubt he would have chosen EZR as his "tool" to do so. As you say, the purpose of the letter was to give EZR enough rope to hang himswelf with. Considering his opinion of EZR, it also can not be thought of as anything else than to harm both him and VL.
This is why I have a problem
I have yet to hear one person who has actually spent time with EZR, other than Princess Claudia, say anything bad about him. The escort who triggered it has not. The ladies he knows in NJ, PA, and NY have not.
I have yet to see or hear what any of this evidence is, either. It is easy to say "I have seen documented proof." McCarthy did it all the time. But I want to hear it from a source, or at the very least hear what the "evdence" is. Then I will decide whether or not to believe it.
But so many ladies have defended him, and like him. There must be some reason for this.
And I remind all that the statement that no one knew Guy's post about the drugging was aimed at EZR is not true. I knew. I knew long before it was ever brought up here what he had been accused of. Many others did, too. So he was not outing himself in any way. He was responding to what he had been openly accused of in other venues.
I have no dog in this fight. but if I was weighing evidence presented up to this time, it comes down on EZR's side, because there hasn't been anything else presented.
Do Police and Medical personnel really inform Board moderators of anomalies in the community? That seems a stretch to me.
But I am frequently wrong, maybe this time is just another example.
I hope this all gets sorted out.
JB
I have yet to hear one person who has actually spent time with EZR, other than Princess Claudia, say anything bad about him. The escort who triggered it has not. The ladies he knows in NJ, PA, and NY have not.
I have yet to see or hear what any of this evidence is, either. It is easy to say "I have seen documented proof." McCarthy did it all the time. But I want to hear it from a source, or at the very least hear what the "evdence" is. Then I will decide whether or not to believe it.
But so many ladies have defended him, and like him. There must be some reason for this.
And I remind all that the statement that no one knew Guy's post about the drugging was aimed at EZR is not true. I knew. I knew long before it was ever brought up here what he had been accused of. Many others did, too. So he was not outing himself in any way. He was responding to what he had been openly accused of in other venues.
I have no dog in this fight. but if I was weighing evidence presented up to this time, it comes down on EZR's side, because there hasn't been anything else presented.
Do Police and Medical personnel really inform Board moderators of anomalies in the community? That seems a stretch to me.
But I am frequently wrong, maybe this time is just another example.
I hope this all gets sorted out.
JB
Hypothetically...and sometimes not so hypothetically
Originally posted by John Blackthorne
I have yet to hear one person who has actually spent time with EZR, other than Princess Claudia, say anything bad about him. The escort who triggered it has not. The ladies he knows in NJ, PA, and NY have not.
Roberta had some sort of incident as well as Alyssa. Alyssa has frozen at the mention of, and refused to say anything on the topic of EZR.
But so many ladies have defended him, and like him. There must be some reason for this.
Thought....perhaps he didn't drug all of his providers
And I remind all that the statement that no one knew Guy's post about the drugging was aimed at EZR is not true. I knew. I knew long before it was ever brought up here what he had been accused of. Many others did, too. So he was not outing himself in any way. He was responding to what he had been openly accused of in other venues.
I didn't know, I know at least three others who didn't know,
I have no dog in this fight. but if I was weighing evidence presented up to this time, it comes down on EZR's side, because there hasn't been anything else presented.
From the evidence that you see, and you haven't seen it all, that is your decision. From the evidence I see, and I do admit that I have not seen it all either, mine comes in favor of Catelli
The road to hell is paved with good intentions... I believe that Catelli's intentions were good although the results are pretty fucked up...
Originally posted by John Blackthorne
I have yet to hear one person who has actually spent time with EZR, other than Princess Claudia, say anything bad about him. The escort who triggered it has not. The ladies he knows in NJ, PA, and NY have not.
Roberta had some sort of incident as well as Alyssa. Alyssa has frozen at the mention of, and refused to say anything on the topic of EZR.
But so many ladies have defended him, and like him. There must be some reason for this.
Thought....perhaps he didn't drug all of his providers
And I remind all that the statement that no one knew Guy's post about the drugging was aimed at EZR is not true. I knew. I knew long before it was ever brought up here what he had been accused of. Many others did, too. So he was not outing himself in any way. He was responding to what he had been openly accused of in other venues.
I didn't know, I know at least three others who didn't know,
I have no dog in this fight. but if I was weighing evidence presented up to this time, it comes down on EZR's side, because there hasn't been anything else presented.
From the evidence that you see, and you haven't seen it all, that is your decision. From the evidence I see, and I do admit that I have not seen it all either, mine comes in favor of Catelli
The road to hell is paved with good intentions... I believe that Catelli's intentions were good although the results are pretty fucked up...
I need to repeat
Roberta has NEVER said anything about drugging. she told both a client and her escort friend "we both drank too much and it just happened."
I cannot say anything about Alyssa. No knowledge there.
You make it a point that you did not know that EZR had been accused of drugging and "brutally raping" Roberta. So what? Plenty did know. I do not understand how your not knowing has any bearing on this at all.
Which means the entire evidence here is that Alyssa will not discuss EZR and that TBD says he has seen "documented proof" of something but we do not know what.
I have to wait before I change my opinion.
JB
[Edited by John Blackthorne on 04-25-2001 at 06:37 PM]
Roberta has NEVER said anything about drugging. she told both a client and her escort friend "we both drank too much and it just happened."
I cannot say anything about Alyssa. No knowledge there.
You make it a point that you did not know that EZR had been accused of drugging and "brutally raping" Roberta. So what? Plenty did know. I do not understand how your not knowing has any bearing on this at all.
Which means the entire evidence here is that Alyssa will not discuss EZR and that TBD says he has seen "documented proof" of something but we do not know what.
I have to wait before I change my opinion.
JB
[Edited by John Blackthorne on 04-25-2001 at 06:37 PM]
what documented proof? whats he got a fucking video tape? unless he's got a letter from EZ himself admitting to anything.....
he's got NOTHING.
he's got his head up his fat ass and his own outing of another person on his board yesterday is atrocious....he of all people should fucking know better.
i tell you this......a lot of people are pretty damn lucky that i'm not EZR.
he's got NOTHING.
he's got his head up his fat ass and his own outing of another person on his board yesterday is atrocious....he of all people should fucking know better.
i tell you this......a lot of people are pretty damn lucky that i'm not EZR.
This whole thread is pathetic! I don't personally know anybody involved in this shit. However, everything presented is hearsay. Some people are throwing around accusations like dollar bills at a strip club. It is a fucking disgrace and should be stopped. Anybody, posting hearsay should be banned. Furthermore, if a crime is committed as serious as rape it should be reported and handled by the proper authorities not on a fucking message board. What's next? Burning people at the stake.