TBD closed until tomorrow

[littleguy]

EZ,

I get your point. I remember that post. I don't know about everybody else, but to be somewhat fair, I didn't know who, at that time, GC was referring to, so I didn't see that as an attack, or an attempt to spread lies and/or innuendo towards anybody in particular.

Looking back though I can see how you would. When it is *us* that someone is writing about, however anonymously, it still gets you mad, no ? I know it does when I've read it about me.

 

[Ezrlove]

Little Guy - If you click on the link again and scroll down to the 4th post you will see that it was a straight up attack against me.

 

[littleguy]

EZ,

I did see that. I just didn't take it as a direct attack at you since I wasn't really up on any of the things that were going on about your particular problems, but again, I can see how you would feel about it.

[Edited by littleguy on 04-24-2001 at 06:56 PM]

 

[John Blackthorne]

this is what I know..

The escort EZR was accused of drugging and raping NEVER made any accusation of the sort.

I have spoken to a client she saw very soon after. Her words to him.. "We both had too much to drink and it just happened." Nothing more. No accusations. In fact she commented how nice he had been, otherwise..

This was also backed up by an escort friend of hers. Same story, she had had too much to drink.

A well known board host ran with this for reasons of his own (It became a drugging followed by a "brutal" rape). As has Guy. yes, Guy is spreading stories about EZR..he has written at least one escort and told her his tales and recommended she not see EZR.

I don't know why. And I don't know if he has evidence that he is not revealing.

I just know that it has happened.

I know nothing of Vera Leigh and anything related to that matter.

jb

 

[littleguy]

My understanding of the events as described by JB are essentially the same.

I also have heard from THAT escort's friend and her accounts of THAT event also are essentially the same as JB has stated. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Ozzy]

i agree with justme......


except that some drinks have already been spilled.


time to call out the bouncer and end this thread.

 

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by littleguy
Guy,

You posted "i myself am skeptical of the charges made by someone describing herself as a 'friend'"

If you were skeptical, why on earht would you publicly or even privately send on these rumors ?

as i explained in my first post to this thread, i first checked this out with 3 co-workers who are far more versed in just such matters than i will ever be. as one of them put it, it would be "doing the right thing" to tell EZ what i had heard.

and now, i know of *my own* experience, no matter what anyone else says about their experience of him, his true character. apparently, TBD wanted everyone to know that he knows even more than i do, and has "seen documented proof."

Ezrlove posted "Guy has been spreading rumors about me for weeks. He is suggesting to providers that I drug them. He always states that his information is coming from a provider."

Have you done that ?

let me be clear: i don't trust him. too much smoke, too many fire marshalls standing around in hip boots, too many women screaming "fire." someone else wants to trust him -- that's their call. i make my own.

i think that people who have been kind to me are entitled to my views on who is trustworthy and who is not.

after his behavior in the present incident, combined with TBD's 'blockbuster', i have absolutely no regrets about anything i've ever written to anyone about him.

According to Vera's post you wrote she "shares dirty needles and has unsafe sex." Is this something you witnessed firsthand or did you hear this from that "other" provider (presumably a competitor ?)?

i did not write or say that in any communication, with any person, ever. i wrote that the other person said that they had traded such charges about each other. that in itself should be a concern to any reasonable and prudent person. that's why i brought the matter up with my co-workers; and that's why they gave the advice they did.

Hotpuppy,

You're right, everybody is entitled to due process, IN COURT, though it's still not a bad idea here. That's why I asked GC to post his e-mail to EZ. Let's all see what he told EZ about Vera. Then perhaps we can understand what's going on, no ?

you say you already have access to it. perhaps others can share your copy.

if i post it here, then someone will assert that that's a ground for banning me.

 

[littleguy]

As much as I disagree with you personally I do not want to be a "prosecutor" nor a "persecutor". You generally fill the latter role quite competently.

You said "as i explained in my first post to this thread, i first checked this out with 3 co-workers who are far more versed in just such matters than i will ever be." I assume the 3 co-workers you checked this out with knew you were referring to a provider and her clients and NOT just "a friend of mine" ?


Now you say "and now, i know of *my own* experience, no matter what anyone else says about their experience of him, his true character. apparently, TBD wanted everyone to know that he knows even more than i do, and has "seen documented proof."

And what, pray tell, is your own experience then. You not getting shy now, are you ?


"after his behavior in the present incident, combined with TBD's 'blockbuster',"

Not sure what you mean by his behavior in the present incident. I've barely seen EZ say anything, never mind exhibit any bad behavior. What is this referring to ?

TBD posted "While I detest what Guy Catelli and Vera both did, there is truth in his accusations. I have seen documented proof. The other who are chiming in are doing so out of blind loyalty rather than any preponderance of evidence or any facts in hand. By tomorrow I will be able to sort this out and make a "good" decision moderation-wise. Until then the board is closed for posting. Until then I'd caution ANYONE from forming any opinion or making any hasty judgements WITHOUT first-hand facts."

Frankly, I took TBD's post to mean proof of what you purportedly said about Vera, not about EZ. Or was in EZ he was referring to. Or both of them ? First he states he has documented proof, then he cautions others not to make an uninformed opinion. What a joke.


I said "According to Vera's post you wrote she "shares dirty needles and has unsafe sex."
GC, you rather emphatically replied "i did not write or say that in any communication, with any person, ever."

While I believe it was you that posted your e-mail to EZ on TBD, and while I have a copy of it, I will not post it unless I feel I must. EZRLOVE, I believe Guy has implicitly given permission for you to post that e-mail.

 

[John Blackthorne]

I missed the blockbuster

And since TBD has no agenda and would never tell a lie, I guess that the issue must be settled.

jb

 

[littleguy]

JB,

I posted it above. Our posts crossed each other.

 

[John Blackthorne]

Oh...

I thought when the term "blockbuster' was used it meant he had actually said something factual.

Like with evidence.

JB

 

[justme]

Ya know, Oz, you try to make a subtle point to avoid all sorts of nastiness and people just ignore you.

All - SB has already castigated one of my favorite hobby related posters for 'piling on'. As such, if some people want to raise a bunch of hell around here, I suggest that you stay the hell out of their way and let the moderator attend to it. (I would've said that when a bar fight breaks out, it's always better to get a bouncer than to try to stop the fight yourself... but aparently that kind of subtlety gets ignored around here).

 

[Tankcommander]

I hate doing this, but I've almost always been at odds with

Catelli, but I have yet to see him make statements without some sort of accurate and reliable information. If I were in Catelli's shoes, I would have stayed silent, but from my observation, he did what he did out of concern for EZ, and Vera out of concern for them as human beings. It was someone on this end that brought the entire board into the fray.

I have nothing against EZ, nor do have I any interaction with Vera. However, I was one of the people willing to meet EZ for drinks and partying after the whole affair about the drinks. Although that does not constitute and endorsement, it does show some sort of neutrality.

Understand, there is an active war between EZ and Catelli. Understand that both sides are actively seeking to destroy the other. Choose your side carefully and decide whether or not your leader is right or wrong... of take the other route and straddle that fence like there's no tomorrow. Your reputation on these boards depend on it. It ain't a joke no more...

 

[tomatch]

Tank et al.,

How 'bout we all stay neutral and not get involved in petty turf wars. Most of here have no idea of the facts of these situations. Charges and countercharges abound. It is ugly. I would love a chance to get to know other hobbyists socially wheteher it be Guy, EZR or yourself. Until I know a person I will not judge him - especially based on allegations and innuendo. I will not judge OR CHOOSE sides from the conflicting, and obviously self-serving, posts, counter-defenses, whatever. Let the parties invloved work it out and let these boards go back to what they're supposed to be. Of course, if any of the allegations are true then I guess this board & TBD have served their purpose. But, I reiterate, a majority of us will never know for sure. That's why it is wise NOT to choose sides. VIVA LA SUISSE!

 

[guy catelli]

Originally posted by littleguy
Frankly, I took TBD's post to mean proof of what you purportedly said about Vera, not about EZ. Or was in EZ he was referring to....

i *never* made any allegations about *Vera*, other than that she needs treatment.

that's not what TBD was alerting the board about. because merely needing treatment, by itself, is not something he goes about outing. when he outs, he outs problem clients.

i don't believe that any "documentation" exists regarding her problems, of *any* sort. and, if there were, it is unlikely, imo, that it would have been passed on to TBD, in any event.

to my knowledge, she does not 'network' with any of the people that that he 'networks' with.

the "documentation" that gets passed on to TBD is, again imo, overwhelmingly, about bad clients.

{sighing} there's, basically, 2 types of "documents" that would get passed on to a board moderator: police reports; and medical reports.

i don't believe such reports exist about her (or she would have told me -- before this). that leaves one other person.

 

[guy catelli]

Re: I hate doing this, but I've almost always been at odds with

Originally posted by Tankcommander
.....Understand, there is an active war between EZ and Catelli. Understand that both sides are actively seeking to destroy the other.....

i must disagree with TC, not for the first time, and, no doubt, not for the last.

i am not out to *destroy* EZ. i know his name -- i've never bothered to do one of those 'search thingees'. if i knew his employer's name and address, i would ignore it completely.

you know -- you just reminded me. someone wanting to make some mischief once anonymously sent me the whole 'personal id' file about someone with whom my conflict at the time was far more bitter than the one here. it's still there (on an email site), still 'unused' by me in any way, as it will no doubt remain as long as i live.

so, i'm not out to 'destroy' EZ, or to see him incarcerated (which i think should happen to Gerald), or to see him pay a fine, or even for there to be a mere 'official finding of fact' to his detriment.

*primarily*, i have wanted to advise only a *handful* of others of why i don't think he's a safe enough bet to be comfortable with.

*secondarily*, i want to send him a message: ~EZ, slow down, you're having too many 'accidents', too quickly -- especially for someone who is hardly clueless about how to handle himself around women.~

my guess is that that part is getting through. i hope so. the man is smart. he doesn't seem reckless. i think he'll be more cautious going forward about situations that *might* lead to ~he said/she said~.

i know that's how i try to handle myself around women -- drawing a very wide circle around myself regarding anything that could result in her turning around and later saying ~he did this to me; he did that me -- whatever~.

i also know that i, too, was once in my twenties, and that i didn't learn these lessons -- about being extra cautious -- the 'easy way' (i swear, no pun intended).

*thirdly*, i made a good faith attempt to reach out to him to find some kind of common ground. and, that's what wound up leading to this thread.

 

[Ezrlove]

Tank - Please tell me or show me where Guy obtained

"some sort of accurate and reliable information"

about me drugging woman.

"Understand that both sides are actively seeking to destroy the other"

Please show me anywhere on this board or TBD where I attacked Guy.The only thing I told Guy was not to comment on any of my post because I lost respect for him after his first accusation that I drug woman. And if he had anything to say to me to say it in person.

I am not looking for anyone to choose sides. I didn't ask for this shit to happen.

 

[Tankcommander]

People talk...and conclusions are made

Now, in my battles with Guy, he has not made any accusations that were not warranted. Other accusations (not pertaining to you, EZ) he has made were backed up by several other providers. As for the accusation that you have drugged providers, I recalled that he defended you in the beginning, and never actually accused you, that he only pointed out that (and I paraphrase) "bad things happened around you". Perhaps I missed several posts, but I heard from a provider that you may have been trouble. Yet, I formed no opinion at that time and right now, I still do not.

What you do and how you do it is your business as long as it does not cross me personally. I have already fought too many crusades for me to want to take on any more.

It is only my observation that he has yet to make any statements without some sort of proof. Probably not proof admissable in a court of law, but some sort of proof.

Whatever statements he has made with dubious information has been accompanied by a disclaimer stating that the information may not be reliable.

TBD's qualifications of Guy's accusations is also a strong statement.

Is Guy arrogant? YES
Is Guy a Crusader? YES
Does he stick his nose in other's businesses? YES
Does he piss the living hell out of me? YES
Do I dislike him most of the time? YES
Is he a Liar? NO

As for your reactions, it's been difficult to gauge. You haven't really defended yourself. My perception is that you've only stated for us to "prove" your guilt. I certainly hope that Guy is wrong, because what is happening here will certainly tear this community apart. However, if he is right, he is preserving the security of many.

Do I really give a shit about what's happening here? No. I'll still meet you, or anyone else on this board for that matter for drinks, or partying. If you're going to get angry with me, you're barking up the wrong tree. I don't give a fuck if you were Ted Bundy himself. I'm straddling the fence... What the previous post contained was a warning to posters that if they put their 2 cents in and chose to defend someone, or to attack them, that they had better have their information correct. Their reputation rides with whomever wins this battle as it is really beginning to get dirty.

 

[HAPPY GUY]

In another vein, did anyone else see that TBD posted someone's full name, workplace, home and work phone, and e-mail address? It's simply pitiful in my opinion.

 

[guy catelli]

yes, we've probably all seen it. he has done the right thing, imo -- and look at how he's being attacked for it! {chuckling}

also, note that only two escorts have shown the courage to back him up. {more chuckling}