Mets 2011
- Thread starter nychelsea
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These last few games will show if Collins should keep his job. He has already said that the team looked like it has been giving up. That's why he lost his last job. The team was playing bad and he lost the clubhouse. The Mets have to have a manager ready to take this team to the next level. They will definitely be better next year. They need someone that will instill discipline and build a culture of winning and of being tough and gritty. Can Collins be that man? He has a dozen or so games left to show it. If he can't get this team's attitude back then he has to go. I personally like Wally. He is this generations Billy Martin.
Unbelievable!!
This is the perfect example of someone who doesn't watch the games, than hears something on the radio, or reads something in the newspapers, and than feels the need to put his 2 cents in. When the Mets hired Collins, I wasn't very excited, I figured they would go with someone they could get relatively cheap. Now that the Season is allmost over, I feel he is their strongest commodity going into next season.
I have been watching the Mets for allmost 40 years and have only seen 2 other managers get this team to over acheive. Yogi, in the early/mid seventies and Bobby V in the late 90's/early 2000's. Collins had to manage with massive injuries, a bunch of triple A players, over paid prima donnas, and all kinds of other distractions from the Wilpons finances to pending trades of soon to be free agents and yet kept this team interesting into September. So the team finally took a few games off, all Teams do this from time to time (even really good ones), and he got on them like they were in a pennant race. After many years of watching this frustrating semblance of a team, it's nice to see players work counts, run bases alertly, get big 2-out hits, and most importantly; pitchers who are not affraid to throw strikes.
This team could have quit when the front office did and traded Beltran and KRod, but it didn't. Unfortunately, you are wrong on one other thing: this team will not be better next year, especially if they don't re-sign Reyes. As long as the Wilpons have financial problems, there will be NO immediate help (and that doesn't just translate into on the field employees). Hopefully by 2013 this team will be back to a competetive level.
This is the perfect example of someone who doesn't watch the games, than hears something on the radio, or reads something in the newspapers, and than feels the need to put his 2 cents in. When the Mets hired Collins, I wasn't very excited, I figured they would go with someone they could get relatively cheap. Now that the Season is allmost over, I feel he is their strongest commodity going into next season.
I have been watching the Mets for allmost 40 years and have only seen 2 other managers get this team to over acheive. Yogi, in the early/mid seventies and Bobby V in the late 90's/early 2000's. Collins had to manage with massive injuries, a bunch of triple A players, over paid prima donnas, and all kinds of other distractions from the Wilpons finances to pending trades of soon to be free agents and yet kept this team interesting into September. So the team finally took a few games off, all Teams do this from time to time (even really good ones), and he got on them like they were in a pennant race. After many years of watching this frustrating semblance of a team, it's nice to see players work counts, run bases alertly, get big 2-out hits, and most importantly; pitchers who are not affraid to throw strikes.
This team could have quit when the front office did and traded Beltran and KRod, but it didn't. Unfortunately, you are wrong on one other thing: this team will not be better next year, especially if they don't re-sign Reyes. As long as the Wilpons have financial problems, there will be NO immediate help (and that doesn't just translate into on the field employees). Hopefully by 2013 this team will be back to a competetive level.
On the contrary there, Igetaround, the team will be better for one simple reason. All the question marks will be gone as far as the roster goes.
Along with Beltran and KRod being behind us, we'll also have settled Reyes and Wright. Santana and Ike will be back from the DL. The closer experimenting will be over by the end of spring training. The starter set-up should also be decided by then, too.
We will be starting the 2012 season with a set line-up and pitching staff.
Along with Beltran and KRod being behind us, we'll also have settled Reyes and Wright. Santana and Ike will be back from the DL. The closer experimenting will be over by the end of spring training. The starter set-up should also be decided by then, too.
We will be starting the 2012 season with a set line-up and pitching staff.
It's not the record that will really matter in 2012 ... rather it will be the payroll reduction and developing of the franchise which includes the minor leagues. They need to get ready for 2013 which will be when they will be ready to compete.
Furthermore ... If Collins loses the clubhouse ... you want him to stay? There was no expectations for this team this year. NOw the team is getting ready to go fishing and they are giving up. All I am saying is ... let's see how he handles it. The man lost a clubhouse before and was fired for it. Do you want a guy like that running your team? Let's see what happens.
Furthermore ... If Collins loses the clubhouse ... you want him to stay? There was no expectations for this team this year. NOw the team is getting ready to go fishing and they are giving up. All I am saying is ... let's see how he handles it. The man lost a clubhouse before and was fired for it. Do you want a guy like that running your team? Let's see what happens.
I hate to be so negative but:
With the exception of Collins (as I mentioned previously) next years team is nothing BUT question marks. Just because we changed something’s this year, doesn’t mean this team is destined to be better. Here are some things to ponder! How good is Ike Davis and how fragile is he? Who plays 2nd base, Turner, Murphy, or Tejada; and what can you expect from them offensively and defensively? If Reyes leaves, where do they get the 100 runs he scores? If Reyes stays, can he stay healthy? Will they bring in the fences for Wright and Bay, and how will that effect the pitching staff? Can Wright bounce back? Can Wright cut down on his strike outs? Have we seen the best of Bay? Will the Mets offer Salary arbitration to Pagan? Is Duda the real deal? Will Thole improve? What can we expect from Johan? If Johan is pitching great will the Wilpons’ try and unload his salary? Will the they offer Salary arbitration to Pelfrey? Do we even want Pelfrey back? Will Capuanuo be back? Can Gee do it again? Who is the closer? Will Izzy come back? What will the bull pen look like? Etc. etc. etc.
Even if the Mets trade Wright or let Reyes go they will certainly NOT be getting any players that will help them now. And like I mentioned in my last post, the Wilpons are not just pinching pennies with the players, but in all aspects of the organization. In the minor leagues, in their medical staff, in their scouting departments, and in signing non draftable foreign players. Yes they have talent but things are so unstable right now you have to expect the worse.
Unfortunately, even if the majority of these things work for the Mets there is one constant that works against them: the Phillies are vastly better, the Braves are much better, the Marlins could be better, and the Nationals (with Strasburg, Harper, and possibly Reyes) could be very surprising.
With the exception of Collins (as I mentioned previously) next years team is nothing BUT question marks. Just because we changed something’s this year, doesn’t mean this team is destined to be better. Here are some things to ponder! How good is Ike Davis and how fragile is he? Who plays 2nd base, Turner, Murphy, or Tejada; and what can you expect from them offensively and defensively? If Reyes leaves, where do they get the 100 runs he scores? If Reyes stays, can he stay healthy? Will they bring in the fences for Wright and Bay, and how will that effect the pitching staff? Can Wright bounce back? Can Wright cut down on his strike outs? Have we seen the best of Bay? Will the Mets offer Salary arbitration to Pagan? Is Duda the real deal? Will Thole improve? What can we expect from Johan? If Johan is pitching great will the Wilpons’ try and unload his salary? Will the they offer Salary arbitration to Pelfrey? Do we even want Pelfrey back? Will Capuanuo be back? Can Gee do it again? Who is the closer? Will Izzy come back? What will the bull pen look like? Etc. etc. etc.
Even if the Mets trade Wright or let Reyes go they will certainly NOT be getting any players that will help them now. And like I mentioned in my last post, the Wilpons are not just pinching pennies with the players, but in all aspects of the organization. In the minor leagues, in their medical staff, in their scouting departments, and in signing non draftable foreign players. Yes they have talent but things are so unstable right now you have to expect the worse.
Unfortunately, even if the majority of these things work for the Mets there is one constant that works against them: the Phillies are vastly better, the Braves are much better, the Marlins could be better, and the Nationals (with Strasburg, Harper, and possibly Reyes) could be very surprising.
Lose the Club house? Who are you talking about? Reyes who they shut down (or shut himself down), Wright, Bay, Dickey, or maybe Jason Pridie. This is not a clubhouse where the players have any say about anything. I personally don't think this team quit, I think it had so many young (or injured) players that it hit a wall after 120 games. All managers make mistakes in there first go round (remember Joe Torre). Collins has done a great job this year, especially the way he handled the younger players. And isn't that exactly what this team is going to need down the road.
First off, I was responding specifically to your statement that "this team will not be better next year."
During spring training we will get to see "how good Davis is" and will know what we can "expect from Johan." We will also know whether Wright and Reyes are staying.
Regardless of what happens, the 2012 team will be better than the 2011 team. Why?
Because by the end of spring training the "question marks" will be gone.
In the simplistic sense, we will know who is staying and who is playing. There are so many variations of the team that could finally take the field on opening day that it would fill a book. To begin with, it depends on whether Wright and Reyes stay and whether Davis can still perform. Then you have to wonder whether Bay and Pagan will be here, too. What about pitching and a catcher, as you pointed out?
But worst case scenario, even if they're all gone and we are just left with a squad of AAA call-ups, we'll still be a better team. Because at least then we'll know what we have. No more questions. That's my point.
C'mon, man. At least let them get through spring training before you write them off. And for the record, I am not saying that the 2012 will compete in the NL East. I still see them as a third-place team. But one with a winning record and a solid core of players. And because of that, I think we can win the wild card in 2013 and will go on to win the series.
P.S. I do agree with you that Collins is fine and that the team has not given up. Didn't the Atlanta series show that, Steve?
During spring training we will get to see "how good Davis is" and will know what we can "expect from Johan." We will also know whether Wright and Reyes are staying.
Regardless of what happens, the 2012 team will be better than the 2011 team. Why?
Because by the end of spring training the "question marks" will be gone.
In the simplistic sense, we will know who is staying and who is playing. There are so many variations of the team that could finally take the field on opening day that it would fill a book. To begin with, it depends on whether Wright and Reyes stay and whether Davis can still perform. Then you have to wonder whether Bay and Pagan will be here, too. What about pitching and a catcher, as you pointed out?
But worst case scenario, even if they're all gone and we are just left with a squad of AAA call-ups, we'll still be a better team. Because at least then we'll know what we have. No more questions. That's my point.
C'mon, man. At least let them get through spring training before you write them off. And for the record, I am not saying that the 2012 will compete in the NL East. I still see them as a third-place team. But one with a winning record and a solid core of players. And because of that, I think we can win the wild card in 2013 and will go on to win the series.
P.S. I do agree with you that Collins is fine and that the team has not given up. Didn't the Atlanta series show that, Steve?
The message I was trying to get across was that the team will be more settled in the way of what direction it is going to take. They will be able to bring up some rookies, and maybe sign some GOOD young free agents. Once they make up their minds on Reyes and Wright then the rest will fall into place. Rebuilding a team takes time but I know Sandy will do a good job.
Maybe Collins is good. Let's see how he does through the rest of the season. It was Collins who said he was upset with his team's attitude. So ... let's see what happens now.
Maybe Collins is good. Let's see how he does through the rest of the season. It was Collins who said he was upset with his team's attitude. So ... let's see what happens now.
Hey, I admire those who always stay positive, but sometimes you have to take 2 steps back in order to take one step forward. I wouldn't mind another losing season as long as the team is moving in the right direction. The problem, unfortunately, is with the Wilpons uncertain financial status, no one truely knows what the future holds.
I think whatever happens with the Wilpons, the fans need to speak very loadly next year and boycott the games. If they lose enough money, they will either sell the team or go out and get the players the fans deserve.
I think whatever happens with the Wilpons, the fans need to speak very loadly next year and boycott the games. If they lose enough money, they will either sell the team or go out and get the players the fans deserve.
Boycott or not, fans are already staying away. Attendance at Citi Field has dropped steadily since their first year there after having drawn four million plus in their final year at Shea. Wilpons probably waiting for clawback resolution. Maybe if they had agreed to give back the profits, as they should, then the trustee wouldn't be going after the principal.
They are a recovering cancer victim. They have cut our and removed most of the tumors. Once Wright is gone the cancer will be gone. 2012 will be physical therapy. They will be fun to watch for Met fans. Let's see what is in the farm system.
It will be more difficult to hate this team once all the tumors are gone.
It will be more difficult to hate this team once all the tumors are gone.
Mets Suck
The difference between the Mets last year and this: last year the Mets sucked monkey balls, in 2012 they are going to suck on hippopotamus balls.
Regarding the cancer analogy, if you have a tumor in your arm and you cut off the arm, and then the leg, pretty soon you ain't left with no body. The Mets are just hacking off limbs and hoping they grow back. Last time I checked, amputated limbs do not grow back unless you are a salamander.
The difference between the Mets last year and this: last year the Mets sucked monkey balls, in 2012 they are going to suck on hippopotamus balls.
Regarding the cancer analogy, if you have a tumor in your arm and you cut off the arm, and then the leg, pretty soon you ain't left with no body. The Mets are just hacking off limbs and hoping they grow back. Last time I checked, amputated limbs do not grow back unless you are a salamander.