Long Island Street Action

[WizardOfAhhs]

So you are saying that an officer has no right to make sure you do not have a weapon within reach in the car? Obviously search of my trunk and contents within are not within reach and thus could not cause the officer concern about his safety but I could easily reach under my seat for a weapon or in my center console.

Correct. Without a reasonable suspicion i.e. you refuse to remove your hand from under your seat when asked, they may not legally search any part of your vehicle without your consent. It goes back to what was mentioned earlier, probable cause. Without probable cause to believe you have a weapon, they can not legally conduct an intrusive search for one (the critical aspect of the Terry case you posted was in deciding that a "pat down" of outerwear is not an intrusive search. This is why stop & frisk is legal. They can frisk your clothing; they can't search your vehicle).
Of course, you're quite right in noting that what's legal or illegal in the text books can be manipulated out on the street. That's why Jizz is wise in recommending that nobody play Matlock with the cops, unless of course you actually are Matlock. Interestingly enough, this showed up in my FB feed today (don't bother going to the end. I did, thinking there was some surprise ending. There isn't. But the use of the phone to record the stop produced some interesting behavior on the cops' part. Some good, some not so good).

And while I really don't like using internet websites for legal or medical advice, this page is pretty well done, and gives a good synopsis of the law, and how to behave:
https://www.flexyourrights.org/faqs/when-can-police-search-your-car/
Finally, as to why some UG members claim to have gotten searched.... you don't really want me to comment on why some UG members do anything, do you?

 

[genius]

Moderator: I believe the last couple of posts are directly relevant to Long Island Street Action and not off topic. Anyway I suspect will shortly come to a conclusion.

Last couple of posts , IMHO, offer some insights and things to think about prior to (if that's your thing) going trolling on the street (or even going to hotel for escort as sometimes LE shows up in parking lot). Some of the posts about being stopped and searched are from respected UG members so I have confidence that the posts are accurate.
BTW my "pat down" ended up with cop going into my pockets (he actually asked me if I had any sharp objects such as needles in them) and since I don't know if any weapons look or feel like condoms in wrappers he obviously was searching me for anything incriminating he could find.


In the rare (lately) times I go out trolling (I just sometimes get an irresistible itch to do bottom fishing) I follow my rule of "only commit one crime at a time" e.g., the only drugs I have in my car is my bottle of"V" in a properly labeled Rx prescription bottle, all lights, inspection and registration stickers current, tires good, the baseball bat I keep handy also is with a glove and softball, I stop at stop signs, signal on all turns, do the speed limit, if a cruiser passes me (same lane or opposite direction) I assume my vehicle has been noted I am done for the night and leave area - you get the idea.

What do you say if stopped at 4am in an area known for drugs and hookers and cops says "What are you doing here away from your neighborhood and at this time? Do you (correctly IMHO) answer that by only saying "Do you want to see my license, registration and insurance card" and nothing else?

I take issue with one recommendation in the otherwise excellent article you provided a link to: You may assert your 5th Amendment protection against self-incrimination by refusing to admit you might have broken a law. As such, the best answer to that and similar questions is “No, Officer.”
I think that answer is wrong in that I do not believe that you ever lie to an officer. So when the cop asked me if I was looking for prostitutes I replied "Prostitution is against the law" (or some similar - event was couple of years ago0 a non-answer to his question w/o affirming or denying his question, or when he asked me when he pulled condoms out of my pocket "What are these for?" I answered "To prevent disease" - not a smart ass answer - just a statement of why I use them - saying I invoke my 5th amendment rights not to answer that question, I believe, would be a tactical mistake when being pulled over in the middle of nowhere with no other witnesses around.

 

[WizardOfAhhs]

Moderator: I believe the last couple of posts are directly relevant to Long Island Street Action and not off topic. Anyway I suspect will shortly come to a conclusion.

Last couple of posts , IMHO, offer some insights and things to think about prior to (if that's your thing) going trolling on the street (or even going to hotel for escort as sometimes LE shows up in parking lot). Some of the posts about being stopped and searched are from respected UG members so I have confidence that the posts are accurate.
BTW my "pat down" ended up with cop going into my pockets (he actually asked me if I had any sharp objects such as needles in them) and since I don't know if any weapons look or feel like condoms in wrappers he obviously was searching me for anything incriminating he could find.


In the rare (lately) times I go out trolling (I just sometimes get an irresistible itch to do bottom fishing) I follow my rule of "only commit one crime at a time" e.g., the only drugs I have in my car is my bottle of"V" in a properly labeled Rx prescription bottle, all lights, inspection and registration stickers current, tires good, the baseball bat I keep handy also is with a glove and softball, I stop at stop signs, signal on all turns, do the speed limit, if a cruiser passes me (same lane or opposite direction) I assume my vehicle has been noted I am done for the night and leave area - you get the idea.

What do you say if stopped at 4am in an area known for drugs and hookers and cops says "What are you doing here away from your neighborhood and at this time? Do you (correctly IMHO) answer that by only saying "Do you want to see my license, registration and insurance card" and nothing else?

I take issue with one recommendation in the otherwise excellent article you provided a link to: You may assert your 5th Amendment protection against self-incrimination by refusing to admit you might have broken a law. As such, the best answer to that and similar questions is “No, Officer.”
I think that answer is wrong in that I do not believe that you ever lie to an officer. So when the cop asked me if I was looking for prostitutes I replied "Prostitution is against the law" (or some similar - event was couple of years ago0 a non-answer to his question w/o affirming or denying his question, or when he asked me when he pulled condoms out of my pocket "What are these for?" I answered "To prevent disease" - not a smart ass answer - just a statement of why I use them - saying I invoke my 5th amendment rights not to answer that question, I believe, would be a tactical mistake when being pulled over in the middle of nowhere with no other witnesses around.

Yup, I agree. The fact of the matter is, we ARE out there breaking the law (or at least attempting to). So any claim to the contrary is a lie, and we walk a fine line once we start that. Everyone should know their rights though, and as long as everything's clean and legal (you, your car, etc), unsuccessfully attempting to break the law isn't in itself a crime (You were unsuccessful, right? Meaning you didn't break the law. You just wanted to). So while the cop may shake you up, which really is what he's trying to do anyway, he can't do much more than that. Just stay calm, respectful, and keep it professional.
Btw, I didn't mean to imply that if a UG member said he got searched that it didn't happen. I'm sure if someone said it, it happened. Cops have that sneaky way of asking "You don't mind if I just take a look....", and if you know there's nothing they'll find, I'm sure I'd let them look too, to show my cooperation and hopefully end things asap. Thankfully it only happened that one time to me, and my bluff worked. But I sure wouldn't want to have to count on that again.

 

[genius]

.... Cops have that sneaky way of asking "You don't mind if I just take a look....", and if you know there's nothing they'll find, I'm sure I'd let them look too, to show my cooperation and hopefully end things asap. .....

Two things apropos your post (plus two bonus extras).

1. Was listening to a radio show "Law you should know" moderated by a lawyer named Landau on 90.3 (NCC station). He had a criminal lawyer on and was giving Q&A on dealing with cops. He actually used the phrase "you know there's nothing they'll find" as part of his answer to the question what to do if cop wants to look in your car. He said you absolutely never give consent to a search of your car. You don't interfere with the cop if he does anyway - but you do not give consent.

2. Was vacuuming out my car and when I got to the back seat, in the joint where the back meets the seat, I felt around and lo and behold I pulled out a glass crack pipe stem - clearly used (burnt black residue at one end). After going back into my house to do a change of my now soiled underwear, I recalled a recent encounter with a young (22yr) thin black woman named Renee that I picked up in W. She had skin tight jeans on that she managed, with great difficulty, to take off (along with her panties) when we were both in back seat of my car. Must have fell out of her back pocket.

Bonus extras:

1. Other things I found in my backseat over the years: various cigarette lighters, loosey cigarettes some half smoked some not, matches, lip balm, 1 earing, 1 ladies sock, an opened condom wrapper, a prescription package of Suboxone film (package was about size of gum wrapper - used to treat withdrawal symptoms of opioid addition - is placed under tongue to dissolve) and lastly - recently a pair of Lala's panties that she somehow managed to forget to put back on (how the fuck does someone forget to put their panties back on prior putting their pants back on?)

2. Reminds me of the joke: Big burly guy is in locker room prior to a workout. He takes off his pants to change into shorts and he is wearing a pair of really tiny thong panties that are obviously very uncomfortable as they are 5 sizes too small. His buddy sees the panties and gives burly guy a WTF look. Burly guy says " my wife found these in my glove box. She called me over, angrily held them up and said 'these are not mine and you better have a good explanation as to why these are here ' The only excuse I could come up with was that I've been keeping a secret fetish from you dear - I secretly wear them. So she sarcastically says 'Don't let me stop you - put them on - now!' "

 

[NorfShore]

He said that right as he walked up and asked for your license & reg? He must have run your plate while you were sitting there. Not a very comforting thought if you're out cruising around.

Yes, first thing he said was that they pulled me over because I was far from home. As their car did a slow drive-by past mine at the 7-11, I assumed they would run it and pull me over so I rehearsed my good reason to be there, which worked great, or it could have turned into a Terry stop (area known for drugs, and late at night, plus being a white guy from far away), even worse if they saw me driving back and forth or in a grid pattern looking for a sw, which I didn't do that day, instead sat at 7-11.

 

[drano]

I go to Coram in middle country rd, all the time because I'm near there. I never know how to differentiate between a sw and a civilian just walking. And I don't know how to avoid getting picked up by LE. Sounds fun though, getting a bbjcim for only $30

 

[NorfShore]

I go to Coram in middle country rd, all the time because I'm near there. I never know how to differentiate between a sw and a civilian just walking. And I don't know how to avoid getting picked up by LE.

A couple things I have noticed... SW's never wear earphones or earbuds listening to music, and rarely carry a handbag. My choice is thin wsw... so in the "ghetto", there's a pretty good chance they are walking. My suggestion is to drive past her and pull to the side of the road [pretend ur on phone]. As she walks up simply ask if she needs a ride. If working she will say "sure" and hop in. Don't discuss any details until you are a few blocks away in the unlikely event she is being watched (in that case she wouldn't get in your car anyway). If ever pulled over my plan would be to just say I saw her walking and gave her a ride, simple as that, you cannot make stuff up as you will likely be separated and questioned.

Now location, which is a tough one. Dead-ends where you are the only car is hard to explain away if rolled up on. If you have tinted windows you may be better off in a parking lot where there are other cars for a front-seat bj, I never go in the back seat or fs in the car.

One time there was an unbelievably hot/fit (white, mid 20's, 5' 4", 100 lb) chick jogging in a sports bra and little shorts by the Meineke on MCR. Even though I was basically 100% sure she was not a sw, I pulled up next to her and asked her if she needed a ride, she politely declined.

 

[genius]

......One time there was an unbelievably hot/fit (white, mid 20's, 5' 4", 100 lb) chick jogging in a sports bra and little shorts by the Meineke on MCR. Even though I was basically 100% sure she was not a sw, I pulled up next to her and asked her if she needed a ride, she politely declined.

Why the hell did you do that if you were basically 100% sure she was not a sw?
You're lucky if she didn't take a photo of your plate and hand it over to the next LE cruiser that passes by.

 

[genius]

...... I never know how to differentiate between a sw and a civilian just walking. ......

you give her a glance as you drive by. If she gives you back "the look" and/or a nod you pull down the next side street to "check your cell phone". If she follows and walks over to your car she probably is a SW. If you ask if she needs a ride and she gets in she is a SW.

If any one item in my instructions above doesn't happen - you keep on driving.

 

[WizardOfAhhs]

Why the hell did you do that if you were basically 100% sure she was not a sw?
You're lucky if she didn't take a photo of your plate and hand it over to the next LE cruiser that passes by.

You never picked up a chick walking down the side of the road? Hell, I used to do that all the time. Or at least slow down and try. Got some great BJ's from girls whose names I never even bothered to ask. There's no crime in trying.

 

[genius]

....... There's no crime in trying.

you sure about that statement?

 

[WizardOfAhhs]

you sure about that statement?

LMAO. If you're sure there is, by all means clue us in.

 

[MayorSimpleton]

LMAO. If you're sure there is, by all means clue us in.

If she was jogging, she most likely "politely declined" while thinking her life was coming to an end. Whether it's a legal crime or not she could have easily called the cops. Now if she did and the cops looked up his plate then went to his house he'd have to either lie and say she was hitchhiking or try to explain why he offered a ride to someone jogging.

 

[genius]

If she was jogging, she most likely "politely declined" while thinking her life was coming to an end. Whether it's a legal crime or not she could have easily called the cops. Now if she did and the cops looked up his plate then went to his house he'd have to either lie and say she was hitchhiking or try to explain why he offered a ride to someone jogging.

Exactly.

I am convinced that my LE stop, frisk and search couple of years ago when I was leaving the W area at around noon a Saturday morning was a result of a call to the cops by an older guy who gave me a nasty look when I drove past his house 2X on a side road while trying to meet up with Lala. He had plenty of time to take down my plate and call it in. Not many white folk driving thru the side streets of W.

 

[NorfShore]

Why the hell did you do that if you were basically 100% sure she was not a sw?
You're lucky if she didn't take a photo of your plate and hand it over to the next LE cruiser that passes by.

She was so out of place, it was worth a try. What is the harm in asking someone if they want a ride? It's like trying to talk to a really hot chick at a bar (low percentage move), she just says "no" and you go away... it's not like I was threatening or harassing.

There's no crime in trying.

That was my mindset.

If she was jogging, she most likely "politely declined" while thinking her life was coming to an end. Whether it's a legal crime or not she could have easily called the cops. Now if she did and the cops looked up his plate then went to his house he'd have to either lie and say she was hitchhiking or try to explain why he offered a ride to someone jogging.

Politeness/respect when pulled over gets you far. Answering questions when approached at your house gets you nowhere, why chance self-incrimination by admitting or saying anything?

 

[WizardOfAhhs]

Probably the easiest way to get caught when you know you're doing something wrong is to act like you're doing something wrong. Granted, I probably wouldn't bother with a jogger myself (the girls easiest to pick up were the ones out strolling hoping some guy may come along and pick them up), but assuming he did nothing more than roll up on her, roll down his window, offer a ride, and drive away when she said no, there's about a snowball's chance in hell that she'd call the cops, let alone those cops going to his house. For what? Unless he acted menacingly or threatened her in some way (which is not usually a good way to pick up women anyway), there's no crime, and even if she did call the cops, they know it. You're being paranoid because you know you're out trolling for SW's. Don't let paranoia overcome common sense.

 

[genius]

....he did nothing more than roll up on her, roll down his window, offer a ride, and drive away when she said no, .......

At least he didn't say "want a nice piece of candy little girl" or perhaps " would you like to see my cute little puppy I have".

Give me a f**king break - I can't see why anyone wouldn't see that a girl out jogging should expect to do so in peace without having some guy "roll up on her, roll down his window, offer a ride".

 

[WizardOfAhhs]

Give me a f**king break - I can't see why anyone wouldn't see that a girl out jogging should expect to do so in peace without having some guy "roll up on her, roll down his window, offer a ride".

Who cares what you can see or not? There's a big difference between sleazy and criminal activity. This is the second time in a week that you've stated someone else's sleazy activity is criminal, when it isn't. You not only get to judge what's morally acceptable, you make the laws now too?

 

[genius]

Who cares what you can see or not? There's a big difference between sleazy and criminal activity. This is the second time in a week that you've stated someone else's sleazy activity is criminal, when it isn't. You not only get to judge what's morally acceptable, you make the laws now too?

Hey - I'm as sleazy as the next guy. And does it really matter if the activity is not criminal i.e., not sufficient to arrest you and charge you with a crime, if it sufficient to get you on LE's RADAR? Some of the cops actually have families and may actually have a daughter or wife who jogs and may just take very seriously a complaint from a female jogger and totally bust your balls.
That is my point and my only point.
ps. Kindy tell me where in post #5044 where I "stated someone else's sleazy activity is criminal". Even if you look at post #5041 and show me where I "stated" that something was illegal. In fact if you look at the context of my "Exactly" it is responding to Mayor's post where a call is made to the cops, it shows that although I did nothing illegal I had my balls severely busted and lost a good half hour of my life that I can't get back and do not want to repeat.

 

[drano]

Thanks for the advice. But there's no way of avoiding LE after picking up an SW is there? Except being polite and denying