bad news for baseball

argleby · Apr 27, 2005

BR3 said:

I know I'm sounding like a broken record on this, but it's the Players' Association that has been blocking steroid testing for years. They've been using it as a bargainable item, i.e., we'll allow some steroid testing in return for... whatever.

The fact that it's for the good of the game has been irrelevant. If you want to change the game, you need their consent. And if you want their consent, get ready to pay. The good of the game doesn't even enter into the argument.

They've done the same thing with proposals to dump the DH, btw

BR3 · Apr 27, 2005

you're defintly right. as a matter of fact, i didn't metnion the owners at first in that post, until i re-read it. but i know that, although the PA is the real problem, the owners don't mind seeing the raised attendance that is going on, so they'll use any excuse to keep it going (whether or not steriods are the reason, it helps). so i felt that i should mention them, too

biglarry1 · May 10, 2005

Interesting article regarding lees homerun due to steroid testing.

MLB Sees Fewer HRs Amid Steroid Crackdown
By RONALD BLUM

NEW YORK (AP) - In the first year of toughened steroid testing, home runs are down in the major leagues for the first time since 2002. Florida Marlins pitcher Todd Jones doesn't think it's a coincidence. He's convinced there's a connection.

``Unfortunately I do. I hate it, but there has been a correction made in the system, and the numbers are going to suffer for a couple of years,'' he said Monday. ``I hate to admit it because I didn't want to. I'm as disappointed as any fan would be that it's going to end up showing to be the truth. But it's got to be good for the game to get back to an even playing field. I just didn't realize how deep it was.''

An average of 1.97 home runs were hit in games through Sunday, down 8.8 percent from the 2.16 average in the first five weeks of last season, according to the Elias Sports Bureau. It's the lowest level for the first five weeks since 2002's 1.93 average and below the 2.14 average of the last decade.

``I think five weeks is too short a statistical sample to draw any conclusions,'' said Bob DuPuy, baseball's chief operating officer. ``There are a myriad of factors that could influence that, including the cold and wet spring training we had in Florida, the weather in the first few weeks of the season.''

But Los Angeles Angels bench coach Joe Maddon, who has been in professional baseball since 1975, thinks testing ``could be tied to it somehow.''

``I don't know exactly to what extent, but you see people maybe not as big as they had been in the past or don't look as strong as maybe they had been in the past,'' he said. ``Some balls are hit pretty well, but they're not carrying like maybe they had in the past couple of years. So, just being a thinking person, and you know what's been going on, you have to tie them together a little bit.''

Runs per game are down 5 percent, from 9.72 to 9.23, and hits declined 3.1 percent, from 18.37 per game to 17.80. The major league batting average dropped from .265 to .261.

``I don't think that's necessarily the cause,'' Tigers closer Troy Percival said of steroids. ``And I only say that because being in Detroit, I've never seen weather being this cold day in and day out all the way through the central part of the country and the East Coast.''

There have been exceptions. Pitchers on the Cincinnati Reds gave up a major league-high 49 homers in their first 30 games. They are on pace to break the team record of 236 they set last year, which was three short of the NL record.

``I don't know how much steroids had to do with it,'' Reds reliever Kent Mercker said. ``Maybe the pitching got better.''

Several players and managers cited the absence of San Francisco's Barry Bonds.

``I think if Barry were playing, you'd probably have that nine percent,'' Minnesota manager Ron Gardenhire said.

``The best hitter in baseball is on the DL,'' added Florida Marlins third baseman Mike Lowell. ``I can't say it's steroids or the pitching. It might be a combination. If it was down 30 percent, I would say, `Whoa, we've got to look at something.' Nine percent is a minimal variation.''

Minnesota outfielder Shannon Stewart was among those who cited better pitching as the cause for the drop.

``There are guys that know how to make the ball move a little bit. To me, guys don't throw straight balls anymore, so it's a little tougher to hit the baseball,'' he said. ``All it takes is a big swing and the ball's going to be out of the yard. That's all it takes, a good swing on that ball. That has nothing to do with steroids.''

Houston manager Phil Garner thinks pitching is a big part of it.

``We went through a period where we saw guys coming up to the big leagues who were throwing 87, 88, 89 mph. Now I see a bunch of guys coming up throwing 92, 94, 95,'' he said. ``There might have been a drop in legal supplements, too. ... I'm seeing smaller players. It's unfair and wrong to assume that guy was on steroids, because supplementation can help too, and it's all legal.''

Washington Nationals outfielder Jose Guillen judges by his own experience.

``At this time last year, I had fewer home runs than I have right now,'' said Guillen, who connected for No. 8 Sunday. ``I had two or three at this time last year.''

AP Sports Writers David Ginsburg in Baltimore, Joe Kay in Cincinnati, Janie McCauley in San Francisco and Steven Wine in Miami contributed to this report

Daddycool · May 10, 2005

ESPN reported yesterday that home runs were down 10% from last year. Almost as low as in 2002. ESPN joked about steroids having an effect on the numbers.

Ozzy · May 14, 2005

For those who are so concerned and bitch so much about steroids in baseball, you would be advised to catch Bob Costas’ HBO special “Costas NOW” and catch the opening story about the wide spread use of amphetamines among players. Banned by most sports organizations... NCAA, NFL, NBA, NHL, IOC and listed as a controlled substance by the US govt since 1970 amphetamines have been used and abused by the majority of players for more than 30 years…… Former players Chad Curtis claims 85% and 15 time all star and automatic hall of famer Tony Gwynn claims at least 50% pop “beans” (assort speed pills) before every game game. Gwynn also is quoted as mentioning a spilled trail of pills leading into the locker room and often these illegal pills being seen in plain sight in most lockers. Phil Garner, the current Houston Astro manager and a former player not only acknowledged the rumors surrounding the 1979 world series champion Pittsburgh Pirates use of amphetamines, but admitted to using them himself and explained the short term physical and mental lift they game him that lifted his performance during a game, as well as the long and short term side effects it had on his body.

If you're going to single out roids as the only problem or means of cheating in baseball or it being the most rampant... you're in a state of denial or lack total knowledge about what is really going on in the game you love.

biglarry1 · May 15, 2005

I missed the Costas show,but right after the Phillies won the WS in 1980,there was a trial involving a doctor in Reading who were getting speed pills for half the team. It has been going on a long time.

Daddycool · May 17, 2005

If you're going to single out roids as the only problem or means of cheating in baseball or it being the most rampant... you're in a state of denial or lack total knowledge about what is really going on in the game you love.[/QUOTE]

Tell me something new. If you are going to play in 162 games a year and need a lift in mid august of course you are going to turn to drugs. This amphetamine story was brought to light a few years ago. For the example I just gave. That when mid august comes around a lot of guys are just out of gas and need to do something to lift them before a game. They turn to amphetamines.

While they are a drug, they do not allow a player to hit the ball further, which was what this thread was all about.

Red Sox Nation · May 21, 2005

Daddycool said:

Those two statements contradict each other. A player with "a lift" is going to hit the ball farther than a player without a lift.

Daddycool · May 23, 2005

Red Sox Nation said:

Speed(amphetamine)do nothing to increase strength like steroids do.

biglarry1 · May 23, 2005

But the increased energy you get from the pep pills will allow you to swing the bat faster and a faster bat will increase the force at which the ball is hit and the further it will go.

RoosterC74 · May 23, 2005

AKA Jason Giambi

Ozzy · May 23, 2005

Amphetamine's probably do more to enhance an atheletes performance than any amount of roids will ever do.

You try playing 162 games almost everyday and travel cross country 16 times in a few months and see if you make it up for half the games without a little "kick".

Daddycool · May 24, 2005

Ozzy said:

At last we agree. Thats what I have been saying. Were I do disagree is that if you are tired and worn out, the amphetamine's will bring you back to your normal level. If you took amphetamines when you are in top conditon then I might agree with that. But the reason you take them is to bring that energy or alertness that you lost back into your game.

Red Sox Nation · Jun 8, 2005

biglarry1 said:

Exactly!

Next case.

Daddycool · Jun 8, 2005

Not true. You are taking those pep pills in august when you are tired, psyichally drained and exhausted. You are not taking those pills when you are at your normal level. You are taking those pep pill to bring you back to your normal level of play.

If you took those pep pills on opening day I would agree with you but you are not.

An example is if you are tired and exhausted you might drink a cup of coffee to bring you to back to your normal level. If you are not tired and drink some coffee you might be bouncing off the walls.

Daddycool · Mar 7, 2006

NEW YORK(AP) Barry Bonds used a vast array of performance-enhancing drugs, including steroids and human growth hormone, for at least five seasons beginning in 1998, according to a book written by two San Francisco Chronicle reporters.

An excerpt of "Game of Shadows," which provides details of the San Francisco slugger's extensive doping program, appears in the March 13 issue of Sports Illustrated.

Bonds, who testified before a San Francisco federal grand jury looking into steroid use by top athletes, repeatedly has denied using performance-enhancing drugs. Phone messages left by The Associated Press seeking comment from his attorney and publicist were not immediately returned Tuesday.

Authors Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams, who led the newspaper's coverage of the BALCO scandal, recount in remarkable detail the specifics of Bonds' drug regimen, which they write started in 1998 with injections of Winstrol, a powerful steroid also linked to Rafael Palmeiro.

According to the book, Bonds was using two designer steroids, known as the cream and the clear, plus insulin, human growth hormone and other performance enhancers by 2001, when he hit 73 home runs to break Mark McGwire's single-season record.

The seven-time NL MVP enters this season with 708 homers, seven shy of passing Babe Ruth and 48 from breaking Hank Aaron's career mark.

RuffToy · Mar 7, 2006

This is the result of his steroid abuse.

argleby · Mar 7, 2006

He should be permanently banned from baseball and all his records stricken from the books.

Same goes for McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro and anybody else they can get the goods on.

Mr. User Name · Mar 7, 2006

RuffToy said:

She dances at After Dark in Newark !

Thorn · Mar 7, 2006

Juicing is bad stuff. No question about it.