Bad Beat Stories.

Waterclone

Waterclone

Go ahead. Try me.
#1
#1
1/2 NL online (Spin Palace). I have $100.

On the button, I raise to $8 with A 2 suited. One caller.

Flop: 2 2 8. (Woo Hoo)

I bet a small amount (5 into a $20 pot) to induce a raise.

He raises 10. I raise 30, he reraises pushing me all in. I call.

He shows 9 9. I am sitting pretty.

Turn: A. Now I've got a boat. 2's full of Aces. He is down to 2 outs.

Guess what hit on the river!
 
Slinky Bender

Slinky Bender

The All Powerful Moderator
#2
#2
Tournement play. I have Big Slick and raise the BB all in. He calls with 3-2 suited. Flop comes 3-2-8.

I don't mind "bad beats" so much when someone makes the correct play and then gets lucky and hits a better than expected and beats you even though it turns out you had them dominated. What I hate is when someone shouldn't even be in the hand with the cards they have and you get a bad beat.
 
Waterclone

Waterclone

Go ahead. Try me.
#4
#4
Not pure chance. I'd say NL hold em is about 70% skill and 30% chance. A lot like life. 95% of the time, I win the pot. So I can take the loss the other 5%.
 
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J

justme

homo economicus
#5
#5
Waterclone said:
Not pure chance. I'd say NL hold em is about 70% skill and 30% chance. A lot like life. 95% of the time, I win the pot. So I can take the loss the other 5%.
Click to expand...
(empasis added}

I can't see why people like zero (or negative) sum games of chance.
 
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J

JackT

#6
#6
slinkybender said:
I don't mind "bad beats" so much when someone makes the correct play and then gets lucky and hits a better than expected and beats you even though it turns out you had them dominated.
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Just to nitpick...

I always thought a bad beat BY DEFINITION was when someone makes an INCORRECT play and gets lucky to beat you.
(e.g., it's not a bad beat if I'm behind but actually have the odds to call with my longshot 3-outer, I call and get lucky on the river to win the pot... that's just good play on my part, and unfortunate for my opponent).
 
Slinky Bender

Slinky Bender

The All Powerful Moderator
#7
#7
Pokernews.com

Bad Beat
When a hand is beaten by a lucky draw.

Dan's Poker Dictionary:

Bad Beat
Different people seem to feel differently about what counts as a bad beat. One thing is certain: you have to lose the hand. What makes the beat bad? Maybe one or all of the following: you lose in a situation where you're a very big favorite; you lose with a hand you couldn't possibly have been expected to fold; you lose so improbably you feel compelled to tell the story multiple times; you lose to a player who couldn't have beat you without misplaying the hand (but who was astoundingly lucky); you lose in a way that seemed inconceivable until you saw it happen; or more than two experienced players at your table say, "ouch."
Here's an example. Say you're playing hold'em, you hold AA, the flop comes A55, and someone holding 98, suited with one of the fives, catches two perfect cards for a straight flush, you have suffered a very painful bad beat. The guy holding 55 is in a similar position, only more so.

The phrase "bad beat" is heard often in the phrase "bad beat stories," because many poker players, especially (but not exclusively) occasional or inexperienced players, love to tell stories about how rotten their luck was. Some people don't mind listening, or even enjoy these stories. Other people (especially jaded poker veterans who are pretty sure they've heard and seen it all) would sooner sit through eight hours of root canal surgery than listen to one bad beat story. Don't take it personally.

Another phrase you'll hear is "bad beat jackpot." Some games have jackpots for particular types of bad beats.

After that bad beat I put on him, he went on tilt for about six months.

Poker Encyclopedia

bad beat
An event in which a player with a high expectation of winning the pot loses. This expectation may be based on having an unusually strong hand beaten by an even stronger one, or by having an opposing player make an extremely unlikely draw. "Bad beat stories" are frequent topics of conversation at poker tables. Lou Krieger started a tradition among some players of charging $1 to listen to one. In some casinos there is a "bad beat jackpot" awarded to a player who suffers a particular beat, for example, having four of a kind beaten.

Doyle Brunson:

"When you get a big hand cracked (beaten) by someone who was a big dog against you and made his longshot draw... you're said to have had a bad beat."

Would you call the following a bad beat?

You have AhAd. Opponent has AK spades. Flop is Ac-10s-Js. Turn is 10h. River is Qs. Is that a bad beat?
 
J

JackT

#8
#8
slinkybender said:
Would you call the following a bad beat?

You have AhAd. Opponent has AK spades. Flop is Ac-10s-Js. Turn is 10h. River is Qs. Is that a bad beat?
Click to expand...
Not enough info to be sure... (i'd want to know the action and corresponding pot sizes). But as long as there's enough in the pot (including implied odds) for my opponent to draw to the nut flush, then no, I would not consider that he put a 'bad beat' on me in cracking my Aces.

(otherwise, under some of those broad definitions, wouldn't any time aces get cracked be a 'bad beat'? that doesn't sound right to me).
 
Waterclone

Waterclone

Go ahead. Try me.
#9
#9
slinkybender said:
Would you call the following a bad beat?

You have AhAd. Opponent has AK spades. Flop is Ac-10s-Js. Turn is 10h. River is Qs. Is that a bad beat?
Click to expand...

I would say that it depends on when the money went in. Part of my definition of bad beat is that you are ahead when you get all the money in, and your opponent calls without the right odds to do so.

If AA let AK catch the the royal for free, or cheap, then it's not a bad beat. It's just bad play.

Likewise, if the betting was such that AK had pot odds to chase.

But if AA pushed AK all in early enough in the hand (pre-flop say) then it's a bad beat.
 
O

OrangeAid

#10
#10
Waterclone said:
But if AA pushed AK all in early enough in the hand (pre-flop say) then it's a bad beat.
Click to expand...
Since hitting the flush is a 1 in 4 shot after the flop, this could only be considered a bad beat if the action was before the flop (and even then I would tend to file it under "crappy things that happen with aces" rather than "bad beats").
 
Waterclone

Waterclone

Go ahead. Try me.
#11
#11
LemonTwo said:
Since hitting the flush is a 1 in 4 shot after the flop, this could only be considered a bad beat if the action was before the flop (and even then I would tend to file it under "crappy things that happen with aces" rather than "bad beats").
Click to expand...
There are different levels of bad beat.

While it could be considered a Bad Beat, it's not a horrible one. Going all in pre-flop with AK is not a horrible move.

For a beat to be really, really bad, the underdog really shouldn't be in the hand in the first place.

Or, they can have OK cards to play, but then, once everything is shown, they hit runner runner. Those are the worst kinds of beats.
 
Slinky Bender

Slinky Bender

The All Powerful Moderator
#12
#12
You guys really need to learn to calculate odds.

Pre-Flop, the odds of AA winning over AKs were about 88%

On the Flop, 63%

After the Turn about 98%.

So the "best" it ever got was almost 2:1.

So where isn't it a bad beat? At what point do the cards get turned over and AKs is happy to see the results? The answer is never before the River. AKs is always dominated. And if he's always dominated, but wins anyway, it's a bad beat.
 
Slinky Bender

Slinky Bender

The All Powerful Moderator
#13
#13
Waterclone said:
Going all in pre-flop with AK is not a horrible move. .
Click to expand...
AK suited (which is the case we're talking about) is a premium hand.


But I'll ask another question: you have AK (off suit this time), opponent has 3-2. If he beats you anyway, is it a bad beat?
 
O

OrangeAid

#14
#14
Never mind. I can never follow narrative descriptions of poker hands (kind of like PMB $$ codes) - I didn't see the boat on the turn. An unequivocal bad beat.
 
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Slinky Bender

Slinky Bender

The All Powerful Moderator
#15
#15
LemonTwo said:
Never mind. I can never follow narrative descriptions of poker hands (kind of like PMB $$ codes) - I didn't see the boat on the turn. An unequivocal bad beat.
Click to expand...
I agree. And that's why I presented it as an example of a hand which a guy clearly should have been in, but it was a bad beat anyway, as opposed to one where he shouldn't have been playing, and made a bad beat.
 
J

JackT

#17
#17
slinky, you would say that your opponent, who raises preflop AKs vs. AA made an "incorrect play"?
Yes, his hand is terribly dominated throughout the hand; and yes, he "beat" AA on the river... BUT for AA to be complaining about a "bad beat" here strikes me as ridiculous... his opponent played correctly! He didn't make an INCORRECT PLAY and get lucky....
 
P

pjorourke

Thinks he's Caesar's Wife
#18
#18
slinkybender said:
Pokernews.com

Bad Beat
When a hand is beaten by a lucky draw.

...

You have AhAd. Opponent has AK spades. Flop is Ac-10s-Js. Turn is 10h. River is Qs. Is that a bad beat?
Click to expand...
If thats not a lucky draw for AK, I don't know what is. Thus, from AA's perspective its a "Bad Beat", regardless of the bets or strategy or whatever.
 
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B

beadman

#19
#19
bad beat good beat.

Live Tourney 8 players left out of 39

I have about 8,000 chips short stack.
Big blind 65c

Flop 8c 7c 2s

Just small blind and I.

I bet 2000 he calls

Turn 6d

I go all in for last 5000

He waits till his time limit is up and calls with Kc 9s.

River 5s (my card) gives me 2 pair gives him a busted ass str8 and out I go.

Not a BAD beat but just a Lucky call.

I was on the good end of a bad beat

Have 44 all in preflop


Called by JJ

Flop J 9 7

Turn 4

River 4

For 4 4's.
 
Waterclone

Waterclone

Go ahead. Try me.
#20
#20
Today, online I lost every race I got into. 6 times I had an under pair to A J, A Q or A Q and every time they hit!

ARGH!!!

Not really bad beats, but annoying...
 
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