Apple or PC?

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oddfellow4870

#21
#21
I used to use Macs all the time at work. Now I use PCs for everything. I only use antivirus when I have a problem and my machines never crash. The key to owning PCs is to understand that the operating systems and hardware manufacturers don't give a rat's behind for the consumer. If you buy from a big time vendor, your machine will be loaded with crap software running in the background and unnecessary applets running in the background. Every time, you install anything, from a printer driver to an ***** messenger, more crap software will be loaded. If you don't remove them. these programs will do their own thing behind the scenes every time you load the machine. The idiots at Microsoft wrote the OS to allow all this because they make their money on pre-loads, not on your choosing them. They don't mind the fact that ever web site you visit can load crap into your operating system. They do the same damn thing.

But PCs are cheap. And there is nothing wrong with them if you do the following.

1) TURN THE CRAP SOFTWARE OFF. go to Start / Run type msconfig and look at the start up tab on the right and turn it all off. Don't be surprised if you have 5 - 10 - 15 programs running. After doing this, if something doesn't work, selectively turn things on one at a time.

2) Turn off services you don't need. Right click on my computer, go to manage, then services. Use the guide at Elder Geek and turn those services you don't need OFF.

3) Run a data miner cleaner like "Search and Destroy" and block people trying to sell you stuff behind the scenes. Just by cruising the web, you will collect dozens of these leeches.

4) Use as few Microsoft programs as possible. Remember. They do not respect you.
 
M

Mr. W. Coyote

#23
#23
oddfellow4870 said:
But PCs are cheap. And there is nothing wrong with them if you do the following.

1) TURN THE CRAP SOFTWARE OFF. go to Start / Run type msconfig and look at the start up tab on the right and turn it all off. Don't be surprised if you have 5 - 10 - 15 programs running. After doing this, if something doesn't work, selectively turn things on one at a time.

2) Turn off services you don't need. Right click on my computer, go to manage, then services. Use the guide at Elder Geek and turn those services you don't need OFF.

3) Run a data miner cleaner like "Search and Destroy" and block people trying to sell you stuff behind the scenes. Just by cruising the web, you will collect dozens of these leeches.

4) Use as few Microsoft programs as possible. Remember. They do not respect you.
Click to expand...

That is exactly WHY Apple is having such success. For MOST consumers (who do not have an IT Department), that is beyond their scope!
 
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Lou Grant

#24
#24
If this is a laptop purchase, there are many more reasons to go with a MAC than a PC.

For starters, you have better battery life on the Mac than you do on the PC, even tho they are both using the Intel processor to power their machines.

The construction of the Apple Mac is far superior to the average PC as well. On the macbook, it has a Polycarbonate shell, the type used for helmets, riot shields, hard shell luggage, windscreen of F-22. It is designed to take a beating. Throw it in your napsack and hop on the subway knocking into people, doors and poles without fear of it damaging your laptop (within reason, obviously) The MacPro has an aluminum casing. Compare this to the plastic, ubiquitous Dell laptop, it is far sturdier.

It can bbot up in PC?windows mode if needed to run your apps that may not be accessible with a Mac.

I'm not an Apple fanatic. In fact I use PC's almost exclusively. But when I am mobile and need a laptop, the Apple is the one I choose for the above reasons. In fact, I just retired my iBook from 2001 (actually gave it to my wife - still functions perfectly and does the essentials you would expect, with a 5 hour battery!)

If there is a manufacturer to avoid I strongly say avoid the Dells. There is a reason why they aer the cheapest laptops out there - they are made like shit. They break very easily. You NEED the extended warranties.

JMHO
 
Q

q32003

#25
#25
Lou Grant said:
If this is a laptop purchase, there are many more reasons to go with a MAC than a PC.

For starters, you have better battery life on the Mac than you do on the PC, even tho they are both using the Intel processor to power their machines.

The construction of the Apple Mac is far superior to the average PC as well. On the macbook, it has a Polycarbonate shell, the type used for helmets, riot shields, hard shell luggage, windscreen of F-22. It is designed to take a beating. Throw it in your napsack and hop on the subway knocking into people, doors and poles without fear of it damaging your laptop (within reason, obviously) The MacPro has an aluminum casing. Compare this to the plastic, ubiquitous Dell laptop, it is far sturdier.

It can bbot up in PC?windows mode if needed to run your apps that may not be accessible with a Mac.

I'm not an Apple fanatic. In fact I use PC's almost exclusively. But when I am mobile and need a laptop, the Apple is the one I choose for the above reasons. In fact, I just retired my iBook from 2001 (actually gave it to my wife - still functions perfectly and does the essentials you would expect, with a 5 hour battery!)

If there is a manufacturer to avoid I strongly say avoid the Dells. There is a reason why they aer the cheapest laptops out there - they are made like shit. They break very easily. You NEED the extended warranties.

JMHO
Click to expand...
Sorry but I have to disagree with you here. I think there's more nuance to the story than you put forth.

My employer has had three Mac laptops fail for exactly the same reason. That is poor design and crappy quality control. My other friend has an IBM and it's built like a frickin' tank. Like, put it on the ground and run over it with an 18-wheeler and it'll be fine.

It's all about which model and vendor at what time.

Even battery life is arguably not better on the Macs. Just do a search on the net and you'll see that it varies quite a bit in comparison to alternatives.

So one has to (unfortunately) pick different models from different vendors and compare all these things. I don't think blanket statements work in this case.
 
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larry1718

#26
#26
The only downside with the Mac I feel is the premium you pay for computer. One way to overcome this is to do what I did. I bought my Mac on eBay. My 17" MacBook Pro cost me over a thousand dollars less that purchasing from Apple even after purchasing the three year Apple extended warranty. True, it was used for six months so instead of a 2.6GHz processor, I got a 2.4Ghz one. On the other hand, the seller left Microsoft Office and the latest PhotoShop, CS3 on the computer.
 
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elmo16

#27
#27
The real reason for the Mac's recent success is because Windows Vista is such a mess, slow, bloated, not compatible with so much existing hardware and software, such a pain in the ass to use (every time you try to run a program, Vista asks you "Are you sure?"). Just watch all those great "Hi I'm an Apple - and I'm a P.C." adds, and you quickly get the point.

The good news is that the next version of Windows will be a slightly revamped version of Windows XP, and Windows will get it's mojo back.
 
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elmo16

#28
#28
I recently bought two Dell Vostro 1000 laptops with Windows XP Home Edition, and no crapware what so ever. Each one cost just north of $600. They both work great.
 
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elmo16

#29
#29
Removing crapware is not hard at all. Just go to "Control Panel", "programs and Features" (in Windows Vista). Highlight the program you want to uninstall, and click "Uninstall". It sounds simple, but my Sony Vaio came with so much crapware that it took more then three hours to remove. The real problem is that a lot of this crapware might be a necessary utility that you need for your computer to operate properly.
 
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new_york_lover

#30
#30
There's actually a great program for dealing with the "crapware" or bloatware that comes installed on most new Windows PCs. Its called the (wait for it) PC-Decrapifier. Downloadable at http://www.pcdecrapifier.com/download

It doesn't always get rid of EVERY bit of crapware that comes installed on new PCs (Anyone else here feel like Norton AntiVirtus IS a virus?) but it does automate the process in a fast and friendly fashion.

Both Windows XP and Windows Vista are extremely *compatible* with many different types of software and user needs. Want a media center? You got it. Want an editing machine? Sure. Want a gaming platform? Nothing is better. Just want to check emayul, surf the web, and watch the occasional DVD or torrent file? It'll do the trick. And, let's face it... Windows is actually the platform with the largest free and open-source software community, even though Linux is actually more open.

But if you can afford the extra penny, Mac OSX is a much simpler and more pleasurable machine to deal with. It'll do the most basic things in a much more user-friendly, fast, and elegant fashion. Its only *real* limitation is gaming, and that can be solved by installing Windows. But once you add a Windows license to your already-souped-up-graphics-friendly-iMac you're talking about a computer in the $3,200 range... For a laptop, you could easily hit $4k. Unless you steal Windows: Which, of course, no one ever does and is completely reprehensible behavior only performed by the lowest form of whore-mongering scumbags.

For most people, a legit Windows machine will do just fine. For a super-cool-and-fully-integrated experienced that'll blow your freakin' mind with how connected you are and the power you have at your fingertips: Get a MacBook Pro and an iPhone (but wait until July or August).

And if you just want a computer for simple tasks (web, emayul, office, wifi) at the right price, and don't plan to do any gaming or Quickbooks or anything too specialized, get an Asus eee with its version of Linux installed. At $300 they are the coolest little "mom and dad" machines on the market.

And just in case any of you think I am a total nerd, please see my alternate post on the nature of cylon consciousness in the "Battlestar Galactica" thread. I think you'll find my comments in that thread to show that I am quite the "cool dude"... Or whatever you kids call it these days.

"Botany Bay? Botany Bay! Oh no!"
 
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elmo16

#31
#31
Here's an interesting aside. Psystar has been selling a Mac clone for a while now, but it looks like Apple's lawyers will shut them down, as Apple licenses their OS on Apple computers only. Now another Apple clone maker, Appleinsider is selling a desktop computer with an Intel (or AMD chip, they don't mention) for $549 plus $50 Shipping and handling. I read about the hardware and software hacks necessary to run Apple software on a Windows computer in it's native mode. It's not very complicated at all, and I'm sure this will soon be all over the internet. I foresee Mac Clones will become a cottage industry, a very large and common one.

Apple has no problem with people running Windows on Apple Computers. Sounds like Hypocrisy to me. Not that I expect Microsoft to take sides with the Mac clone makers, but if a large Computer maker like HP wanted to make a Mac clone, they might have a leg to stand on.
 
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oddfellow4870

#32
#32
elmo16 said:
Removing crapware is not hard at all. Just go to "Control Panel", "programs and Features" (in Windows Vista). Highlight the program you want to uninstall, and click "Uninstall". It sounds simple, but my Sony Vaio came with so much crapware that it took more then three hours to remove. The real problem is that a lot of this crapware might be a necessary utility that you need for your computer to operate properly.
Click to expand...
It's safer to turn it off than to uninstall it, which is why I use msconfig and services to just disable it. Drive space isn't really an issue any more.
 
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elmo16

#33
#33
oddfellow4870 said:
It's safer to turn it off than to uninstall it, which is why I use msconfig and services to just disable it. Drive space isn't really an issue any more.
Click to expand...
When you uninstall a program in Windows, it uninstalls all references to itself in the registry and services (well it does most of the time). just to be sure, I run my registry cleaner. It's very rare that I have to run msconfig. Some software simply refuses to behave, and uninstall itself like it should (the free version of Real Player comes to mind). Then I have to run msconfig and manually stop the software from running.

By the way, I was told by an "Apple Expert" that Apple software doesn't have an automatic uninstaller, and that you have to manually uninstall the software. This "Expert" could be wrong. I would appreciate it if one of you Apple people would set me straight, as I would like to know if the Mac has a automatic uninstaller like Windows has.
 
H

hmocha

#34
#34
elmo16 said:
I would appreciate it if one of you Apple people would set me straight, as I would like to know if the Mac has a automatic uninstaller like Windows has.
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Macs do not come with an auto uninstaller, but for a reason. Most Mac installations are stand-alone. That is they do not involve any files other than the application (.exe on a PC, .app on a Mac) and a preferences file that is created when the program is first run. Programs that have a more complex installation normally come with their own uninstaller.

The registry is definitely the key to why PCs are generally less reliable than Macs. The registry is, in fact, almost never properly cleared out by uninstalling software, and slows things down as it gets larger. Also, as a 'one-size fits all' solution to application settings it is also key point of failure. In other words, if your registry file gets corrupted everything stops working. Finally, it is the tool by which most viruses and trojan horses are safely 'hidden' on the PC, or made to reproduce themselves if deleted elsewhere.
 
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elmo16

#35
#35
hmocha said:
Macs do not come with an auto uninstaller, but for a reason. Most Mac installations are stand-alone. That is they do not involve any files other than the application (.exe on a PC, .app on a Mac) and a preferences file that is created when the program is first run. Programs that have a more complex installation normally come with their own uninstaller.

The registry is definitely the key to why PCs are generally less reliable than Macs. The registry is, in fact, almost never properly cleared out by uninstalling software, and slows things down as it gets larger. Also, as a 'one-size fits all' solution to application settings it is also key point of failure. In other words, if your registry file gets corrupted everything stops working. Finally, it is the tool by which most viruses and trojan horses are safely 'hidden' on the PC, or made to reproduce themselves if deleted elsewhere.
Click to expand...
That's why I use a registry cleaner. Anti-virus and anti-Spyware prevent and remove malware from the registry. This is why I also backup my hard drive in case my computer gets really messed up.
 
M

Mr. W. Coyote

#36
#36
elmo16 said:
That's why I use a registry cleaner. Anti-virus and anti-Spyware prevent and remove malware from the registry. This is why I also backup my hard drive in case my computer gets really messed up.
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I think the point is... none of that is necessary on the Mac (not talking about backup), which is why so many novice consumers are switching. All of the complexities described in previous posts are things normal consumers do not want to deal with.

I know most of the folks here are probably tech savvy, but trust me when I say.. MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT!

They would need to hire someone to do all the aforementioned maintenance. Not to mention, IF someone needed help (Face to face) with a Mac, you have Apple Stores and tech support in store (Yes, you DO have to make an appointment...)
 
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elmo16

#37
#37
Mr. W. Coyote said:
I think the point is... none of that is necessary on the Mac (not talking about backup), which is why so many novice consumers are switching. All of the complexities described in previous posts are things normal consumers do not want to deal with.

I know most of the folks here are probably tech savvy, but trust me when I say.. MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT!

They would need to hire someone to do all the aforementioned maintenance. Not to mention, IF someone needed help (Face to face) with a Mac, you have Apple Stores and tech support in store (Yes, you DO have to make an appointment...)
Click to expand...
That's cool -- to each his own.
 
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elmo16

#39
#39
There is one thing about the Mac that bothers me, as I spend most of my time surfing the net, for me Firefox is the application I use most, for me and many other folks like me (and most people do use their computers to surf), Firefox not only is by far the most used application, it is their computer interface and desktop. Firefox has by far more extensions and skins for Windows computers then for the Mac. It's considered a better browser than Safari or IE for Windows or Mac.
 
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justme

homo economicus
#40
#40
I've been living with an I-Mac for a week now. It's my first Apple.

If I had to describe the OS in a word it would be seamless. I have a networked laser on my network. Getting it running under XP clients required a number of steps. Getting it to work in OSX involved opening the printer config under setup and setting it to the default. Note that it was already sitting on the screen. Also note that I hadn't looked up installation instructions, I was just nosing around the printer box to see what it looks like. I was pretty happy at how little effort it took.

There have been a number of other discoveries, such as how clicking the mouse and the scroll wheel down at the same time brings up the dashboard. Getting used to OS X is a bit like traveling to another country. It can be frustrating at times because things are so different (where the hell is my damned right click!), but it's also extremely interesting to see how much better some things are.

I'll say that most of my frustration with this purchase occurred before the sale. I don't like how opaque Apple is about its products. I don't like that you're basically forced into a few different configurations. I don't like how dishonest they're being about the differences between their 20" screen and 24" screen. Apple kind of reminds me of Toyota - love the product, hate the dealers.

Another analogy I'd make is that owning a Mac is a little like owning a record player. It's not simply a consumer choice, but rather a commitment to doing things a little differently. It seems like Macs work best when you adopt their entire philosophy entirely. Given that this philosophy involves spending a lot of money, I'm not really sure I'm there yet or that I ever will be.

On the other hand, it's not like the computer has radically changed my life. It's nice, but it's not even close to the most fun thing I've bought.

Still, I'd make the same choice if I had to do it over again.

(Ask me again in a year...)
 
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