9/11 provider services
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Re: Skagen
3,000 civilians. Have you any idea how many Palestinian women and children have died at the hands of the Isrealis? All of that funded by YOU with you tax dollars every day that finance Israels war effort.
But all of a sudden you think YOUR hands are clean and its the other guys who are "cockroaches"? Please.
If in fact you have a daughter in the Army, one might expect you to think more carefully about the situation. Everything you are wishing one somebody else's son and daughter, they too are also wishing on your son and daughter.
All this hate crap gets you nowhere. We better move into doing something constructive.
3,000 civilians. Have you any idea how many Palestinian women and children have died at the hands of the Isrealis? All of that funded by YOU with you tax dollars every day that finance Israels war effort.
But all of a sudden you think YOUR hands are clean and its the other guys who are "cockroaches"? Please.
If in fact you have a daughter in the Army, one might expect you to think more carefully about the situation. Everything you are wishing one somebody else's son and daughter, they too are also wishing on your son and daughter.
All this hate crap gets you nowhere. We better move into doing something constructive.
Re: Re: SKAGEN
Originally posted by skagen
Nothing yellow about me. Yellow are the people screaming to wage war by remote bombs even if it means taking out non-combatant civilians in a foreign country, yet they would never volunteer for war or send their son to fight a foreign country.
Exactly. I believe the term for them is "chicken hawks". Eg: during the Vietnam war, our tough-guy "president" Bush thought joining the National Guard so he couldn't be drafted was the way to go. What a fuckin joke*.
*unless he truly believed Texas was about to be attacked
Nothing yellow about me. Yellow are the people screaming to wage war by remote bombs even if it means taking out non-combatant civilians in a foreign country, yet they would never volunteer for war or send their son to fight a foreign country.
Exactly. I believe the term for them is "chicken hawks". Eg: during the Vietnam war, our tough-guy "president" Bush thought joining the National Guard so he couldn't be drafted was the way to go. What a fuckin joke*.
*unless he truly believed Texas was about to be attacked
Re: What??
I agree Daddycool, but how is the US supposed to pick whom they support? Was Bin Laden upset with us when we supported Afganistan in their fight agains the formmer USSR? Granted, it was payback to Russia for their support of So. Vietnam, but it was still support.
I feel there is no solution to be had by thoughts and words as the whole situation in the Middle East is based on religion. Last time I looked, there is no rational or logical reason behind one religion v. another. They are based on beliefs passed down and interpreted through time.
Lastly, the US has a great storied history of helping the world with it's problems. Some examples: 1. Slavery - we even fought ourselves to overcome this. 2. WW1 - Hitler 3. WW2 - Hitler again (it took millions more to die to finally do the job that could have been done once before) Anyone see a similarity in number 3 to modern day events?
"Opinons are like assholes, everyone has one"
I agree Daddycool, but how is the US supposed to pick whom they support? Was Bin Laden upset with us when we supported Afganistan in their fight agains the formmer USSR? Granted, it was payback to Russia for their support of So. Vietnam, but it was still support.
I feel there is no solution to be had by thoughts and words as the whole situation in the Middle East is based on religion. Last time I looked, there is no rational or logical reason behind one religion v. another. They are based on beliefs passed down and interpreted through time.
Lastly, the US has a great storied history of helping the world with it's problems. Some examples: 1. Slavery - we even fought ourselves to overcome this. 2. WW1 - Hitler 3. WW2 - Hitler again (it took millions more to die to finally do the job that could have been done once before) Anyone see a similarity in number 3 to modern day events?
"Opinons are like assholes, everyone has one"
I was reluctant to open this thread after seeing the first few posts. The original idea was repulsive - fucking your way through 9/11 at bargain prices.
When I opened this today - well, at least it took a substantive turn.
Skagen, Paulus and Thorn are where my sentiments lie. No need for me to endlessly quote and take up bandwith.
pswope is also on target.
When I opened this today - well, at least it took a substantive turn.
Skagen, Paulus and Thorn are where my sentiments lie. No need for me to endlessly quote and take up bandwith.
pswope is also on target.
I heard an interesting bit of news the other day -- I'm not even sure of its validity as it was relayed by an author on the radio who I've never heard of. In either case, I've always thought this entire conflict was odd only because Bin Laden's real target is Saudi Arabia, yet he's fighting this war by attacking the U.S.
This author said that when Iraq invaded Kuwait, Bin Laden went to the Saudi Princes and offered to raise and train an army of Arabs to liberate it (similar, I suppose, to the Afghan war against the Soviets). When Bush Sr. offered to send in the U.S. military, the Saudis told Bin Laden "Thanks but no thanks." According to this author, this is what sent Bin Laden over the edge. He's never gotten over what he feels was a slap in the face by the Saudis.
Why he came to the conclusion that attacking the U.S. would eventually lead to the Saudi government's downfall, I've never completely understood. None of the punditry I've read or heard over the last year completely explains what's been happening.
And, of course, none of it justifies the violence, suffering and fear we've been subjected to. My heart goes out to anyone on here that has lost someone on what is a very solemn day in New York.
This author said that when Iraq invaded Kuwait, Bin Laden went to the Saudi Princes and offered to raise and train an army of Arabs to liberate it (similar, I suppose, to the Afghan war against the Soviets). When Bush Sr. offered to send in the U.S. military, the Saudis told Bin Laden "Thanks but no thanks." According to this author, this is what sent Bin Laden over the edge. He's never gotten over what he feels was a slap in the face by the Saudis.
Why he came to the conclusion that attacking the U.S. would eventually lead to the Saudi government's downfall, I've never completely understood. None of the punditry I've read or heard over the last year completely explains what's been happening.
And, of course, none of it justifies the violence, suffering and fear we've been subjected to. My heart goes out to anyone on here that has lost someone on what is a very solemn day in New York.
Chubber.....of course there was a holocaust. I see you had to make those statements because you can't deny any of those facts. Should there be bombings, of course not. I feel bad for Israel in that respect. But what are the Palistine people suppose to do.They got their land stripped from them, tried to get the UN to help, that failed, tried to get the world to at least hear what they had to say, nobody listened. What would you do? How would you go about getting back your land when everything else has failed. .
Tooma...picking allies is a hard thing to do. I'm saying Israel is hurting us more than helping us. But we do need them for securing the region for our military. I don't think Bin Laden cared that we helped Afganistan. This is a religious war to Bin laden always has always will be.
Middle East after we are done. We should just get out. We have no business being there. We had no busniess is Bosnia. Curds or any of that. Your religious comments back up "religion is the opium of the people".
Your third point. Besides Great Brit. Who has helped us when we needed it??? Oaklahoma bombing??? First World Trade bombing?? When has the world been there for us? I'm not preaching isolationism but has the world done for us lately?All I see is American soliders going all over the world to "police it" for everybody else's causes.
Tooma...picking allies is a hard thing to do. I'm saying Israel is hurting us more than helping us. But we do need them for securing the region for our military. I don't think Bin Laden cared that we helped Afganistan. This is a religious war to Bin laden always has always will be.
Middle East after we are done. We should just get out. We have no business being there. We had no busniess is Bosnia. Curds or any of that. Your religious comments back up "religion is the opium of the people".
Your third point. Besides Great Brit. Who has helped us when we needed it??? Oaklahoma bombing??? First World Trade bombing?? When has the world been there for us? I'm not preaching isolationism but has the world done for us lately?All I see is American soliders going all over the world to "police it" for everybody else's causes.
How would you go about getting back your land when everything else has failed. .
Assuming it was their land....... NOT, even when all esle fails, by strapping a bomb on my body and walking into a restaurant, wedding, bus station, shopping mall, flying a commercial (or any) plane into a building, etc.
Assuming it was their land....... NOT, even when all esle fails, by strapping a bomb on my body and walking into a restaurant, wedding, bus station, shopping mall, flying a commercial (or any) plane into a building, etc.
Monk, this is true, but not wholly. Bin Laden is against the Saudi Royal Family, but he's also against the cultural and financial influence of the US, who he would like to shut out of Arabia. I don't think he believes he can destroy the US. He simply wants to scare the US away from there.
I think I spoke about this before, either in this thread or another one. "There is no monolithic single interest that we can describe as "The Saudis".
The Saudi Royal family runs that country's govt as a dictatorship, as opposed to the symbolic role of the Royals in say England.In a nutshell, the they are ridiculously corrupt and have a domestic economic disaster on their hands, despite the major oil wealth in that country.
On top of that many Saudi muslims feel that the Royal Family uses religion as a tool to keep the masses occupied and that they are not "true" believers. They are simply buying their way out of rebeliion by spending money on religious causes.
Bin Laden woud be a threat to the Saudi Royal Family as a potential leader of a national revolt. THAT is the reason why the Saudi's didn't let him raise an army. You know exactly what he would have done with it - turned on the Saudi Royal Family after fighting Saddam (another who is seen less-than-true muslim). And all of a sudden, there you have it: he is undiputed leader of the muslim world.
Thus Bin laden is pissed at the US and wants it out of the way, the US is propping up an undemocratic and inept Saudi govt that would not stand for a minute without its help. Even with Saddam still in power, Bin Laden would be in the driver's seat.
No real shoker there though - the US has a long history of supporting dictatorships abroad, while claiming to be the keeper of the democratic flame. Same old shit.
Of course, if Bin Laden got in power, its not like they would have democracy in Saudi Arabia, but that's another chapter altogether.
I think I spoke about this before, either in this thread or another one. "There is no monolithic single interest that we can describe as "The Saudis".
The Saudi Royal family runs that country's govt as a dictatorship, as opposed to the symbolic role of the Royals in say England.In a nutshell, the they are ridiculously corrupt and have a domestic economic disaster on their hands, despite the major oil wealth in that country.
On top of that many Saudi muslims feel that the Royal Family uses religion as a tool to keep the masses occupied and that they are not "true" believers. They are simply buying their way out of rebeliion by spending money on religious causes.
Bin Laden woud be a threat to the Saudi Royal Family as a potential leader of a national revolt. THAT is the reason why the Saudi's didn't let him raise an army. You know exactly what he would have done with it - turned on the Saudi Royal Family after fighting Saddam (another who is seen less-than-true muslim). And all of a sudden, there you have it: he is undiputed leader of the muslim world.
Thus Bin laden is pissed at the US and wants it out of the way, the US is propping up an undemocratic and inept Saudi govt that would not stand for a minute without its help. Even with Saddam still in power, Bin Laden would be in the driver's seat.
No real shoker there though - the US has a long history of supporting dictatorships abroad, while claiming to be the keeper of the democratic flame. Same old shit.
Of course, if Bin Laden got in power, its not like they would have democracy in Saudi Arabia, but that's another chapter altogether.
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