"standard LE check"

[genius]

I thought it was any prostitution indoors was what was legal in RI? (Like Strip Clubs)
I am pretty sure this got changed in 2009 with a new law making it illegal.

Right you are Slinky - I stand corrected.

There was a big article I had read in NYT a few years back - but alas no such article (or I missed it) when the governor signed into law the closing of the loophole. Prior to that it had been technically legal "not in public" since 1980. This was reaffirmed by a court ruling; 1998: State Supreme Court rules in State v. DeMagistris that the law against soliciting for prostitution was “primarily to bar prostitutes from hawking their wares in public,” and it could not be applied to convict someone for activity that takes place in private.

PS. I will do research before I make such "factual statements". My apologies to any mongers who read my post and jumped into their cars to drive to RI.

 

[Jujucares]

alot of useful info. but is there anything we can do to check to see if they are LE?

 

[Stashu2]

Cops don't want to get felt up just for a low level crime bust. Touch her tits before there's any talk about money. If she pulls away, I'd walk. Put her hand on your cock, if she starts pulling away when you're moving her hand there, I'd walk. Additional benefit is, you're now sure sex is on the menu. I doubt the cops can legally initiate the touching. So you're pretty sure she's not a cop, and she's pretty sure you're not a cop. And you're both clear on what happens next. Sure, the cops could lie to make a bust, but do they really want to go that far for such a small one? I doubt it. Imagine the hassle a female cop would get from the guys if she let men feel her up. Imagine the lawsuit if management told her to do it. The union would be in the Daily News the next day screwing DeBlasio in the ass. They're looking for prostitution out in the street or massage parlors that are too high profile and are pissing off the neighbors.

 

[genius]

Cops don't want to get felt up just for a low level crime bust. Touch her tits before there's any talk about money. If she pulls away, I'd walk. Put her hand on your cock, if she starts pulling away when you're moving her hand there, I'd walk. Additional benefit is, you're now sure sex is on the menu. I doubt the cops can legally initiate the touching. So you're pretty sure she's not a cop, and she's pretty sure you're not a cop. And you're both clear on what happens next. Sure, the cops could lie to make a bust, but do they really want to go that far for such a small one? I doubt it. Imagine the hassle a female cop would get from the guys if she let men feel her up. Imagine the lawsuit if management told her to do it. The union would be in the Daily News the next day screwing DeBlasio in the ass. They're looking for prostitution out in the street or massage parlors that are too high profile and are pissing off the neighbors.

I got some bad news for you - guy calls the (sting) escort, walks in the room. Something doesn't seem right to him so he says that he changed his mind and walks out. Backup jumps all over him as he is walking out and arrest him. No talk of anything, no money being shown, no touching of anyone.

Their whole case was he made a call to a posting (backpage) that obviously (but not obvious to the judge appearently) shown his intent to engage in prostitution.

Although the guy beat the case he still got his name in Rice's wall of shame, published name in ND, name and pic on News12 website and then again published in the paper with his picture a year later when he beat the case.

 

[genius]

typo on "apparently"

 

[Stashu2]

Yeah that can happen, if there's a way to dodge that situation any way besides staying home and playing Punch the Monkey, I'm eager to hear it. You can't eliminate risk but you can minimize it. Like you said, the Judge can throw you back but you still went through all that trouble, and that's a lot worse than the hundred bucks or whatever they would fine you.

 

[pokler]

I got some bad news for you - guy calls the (sting) escort, walks in the room. Something doesn't seem right to him so he says that he changed his mind and walks out. Backup jumps all over him as he is walking out and arrest him. No talk of anything, no money being shown, no touching of anyone.

Their whole case was he made a call to a posting (backpage) that obviously (but not obvious to the judge appearently) shown his intent to engage in prostitution.

Although the guy beat the case he still got his name in Rice's wall of shame, published name in ND, name and pic on News12 website and then again published in the paper with his picture a year later when he beat the case.

What's important here is that the mere phone call did not generate arrest but rather him showing up to the room did.
Showing up gives them probable cause while a call does not.

Monger has himself to blame for not doing due diligence on UG and for TOFTT , a risky proposition.

Hence his conviction ( effectively )

 

[genius]

What's important here is that the mere phone call did not generate arrest but rather him showing up to the room did.
Showing up gives them probable cause while a call does not.

Monger has himself to blame for not doing due diligence on UG and for TOFTT , a risky proposition.

Hence his conviction ( effectively )

Nope - don't buy it (as far as the arrest anyway). The advert in "Flush the Johns" sting mentioned massage and $80 for half hour; getting a massage is not illegal (whether the masseuse is licensed or not - although performing one for money w/o license is illegal). Also I don't see how showing up at the room is probable cause for anything, except perhaps to question the guy. For example, I may just get off by going to a room and watching a girl strip and allow me to take some pictures- no touching, nothing illegal. If they asked me why I was there and called the # that is exactly what I would have said.

Seems to me the guy would have to ask the cost for various sexual acts.

disclaimer: genius may be full of crap here as he is not a legal type - legal types on UG - feel free to kindly comment.

 

[pokler]

Nope - don't buy it (as far as the arrest anyway). The advert in "Flush the Johns" sting mentioned massage and $80 for half hour; getting a massage is not illegal (whether the masseuse is licensed or not - although performing one for money w/o license is illegal). Also I don't see how showing up at the room is probable cause for anything, except perhaps to question the guy. For example, I may just get off by going to a room and watching a girl strip and allow me to take some pictures- no touching, nothing illegal. If they asked me why I was there and called the # that is exactly what I would have said.

Seems to me the guy would have to ask the cost for various sexual acts.

disclaimer: genius may be full of crap here as he is not a legal type - legal types on UG - feel free to kindly comment.

Dude it really is simple but let me explain again. If you only call a BP add that really is a sting you are not going to have LE come knocking on your door to arrest you. But if you call that same sting and then show up to the hotel there is a high likelyhood of arrest.

And also again you may well get off in court for that arrest but the damage to your life has been done.

 

[Lion-O]

Just a few observations from me as far as the so called Flush the Johns operation.
It was very unfortunate for the guys that were busted.
As far the objectives of the whole operation and it's success goes I'd say it was a flop. From the DA and the LE point if view as they hardly got any convictions.
Maybe our focus should be where did they go right, where did they go wrong and what will they likely do different the next time around.
Almost akin to a management style SWOT analysis (Strengths Opportunities Weaknesses and Threats)
Any input from the experienced in here and any from the legal types?

 

[pokler]

Just a few observations from me as far as the so called Flush the Johns operation.
It was very unfortunate for the guys that were busted.
As far the objectives of the whole operation and it's success goes I'd say it was a flop. From the DA and the LE point if view as they hardly got any convictions.
Maybe our focus should be where did they go right, where did they go wrong and what will they likely do different the next time around.
Almost akin to a management style SWOT analysis (Strengths Opportunities Weaknesses and Threats)
Any input from the experienced in here and any from the legal types?

Actually it was a smashing success from the point of view of Rice. Why? Because she knows that just an arrest is in effect a conviction since the johns life is in ruins which is her goal.

There need not be a conviction in court for LE goals to have been accomplished .

 

[out of control]

Showing up at the room is not enough to convict you. There must be an agreement to exchange sex for money. That's why most girls do not want to discuss specifics. they just want money on the table and get undressed. A cop will always try to get a girl to discuss the sex act she is willing to perform. same thing with johns, the decoy will try to get you to specify what you want. The conversation is usually recorded. If you get to a room and the girl says what do you want and you are both fully clothed then I would be suspicious. Never talk about what you want until you are both naked once she is naked it's all good.

 

[Lion-O]

Rice is a politician. What they want is popularity. Whether or not she is a sadist is up for debate and of no real use in the context of this discussion.
Tax money wasted on futile busts that lead to no convictions and a lot of attention and bad press does not make one popular as opposed to a successful bust that leads to conviction.
I'm sure LE do not want to waste time in courts over botched busts and get a load of bad press either. The DA's office needs convictions. Their job is not to keep the court system busy.
Either way they learnt what not to do. Did we learn anything?

Actually it was a smashing success from the point of view of Rice. Why? Because she knows that just an arrest is in effect a conviction since the johns life is in ruins which is her goal.

There need not be a conviction in court for LE goals to have been accomplished .

 

[pokler]

Showing up at the room is not enough to convict you. There must be an agreement to exchange sex for money. That's why most girls do not want to discuss specifics. they just want money on the table and get undressed. A cop will always try to get a girl to discuss the sex act she is willing to perform. same thing with johns, the decoy will try to get you to specify what you want. The conversation is usually recorded. If you get to a room and the girl says what do you want and you are both fully clothed then I would be suspicious. Never talk about what you want until you are both naked once she is naked it's all good.

Read my post. I said effective conviction. Showing up = bust = lost job = no way to place your come = damage marrige, all of which sums up to life forever changed.

Who said what about sex and money may matter in a court room but its anti climatic considering your effectivr conviction

Your not getting the full picture ..

 

[Slinky Bender]

If the idea was to get guys to stop calling ads on BP I will bet they at least somewhat accomplished this, conviction or not.

 

[genius]

Read my post. I said effective conviction. Showing up = bust = lost job = no way to place your come = damage marrige, all of which sums up to life forever changed.
Who said what about sex and money may matter in a court room but its anti climatic considering your effectivr conviction
Your not getting the full picture ..

As far as "Your[sic] not getting the full picture" - actually everyone is getting the what you say is the full picture so you can stop posting the same thing over again. However the vast majority that went to trial were not convicted of anything. That they had to go through large expenses of time and money, exposure to the public in the press, disruption of family life and perhaps their job over what appears to be just a publicity stunt (words to that effect stated in a ND editorial) is the only picture I see.

If the idea was to get guys to stop calling ads on BP I will bet they at least somewhat accomplished this, conviction or not.

Although I would think (I have no data but it seems logical even from my own actions after the busts) that they somewhat accomplished reducing the amount guys calling ads on BP, I'm not sure that was the goal of Rice. IMHO, this was just a publicity stunt to show her as a hard hitting DA as a prelude to higher office. It certainly wasn't well thought out from a legal point of view as they should only have arrested those guys who actually made solicitations for sex for money. Setting up hidden cameras and audio recordings in the room and recording phone conversations in those cases would have been very difficult to beat in court. Yeah maybe she would have maybe only half the number of arrests but would have a 100% conviction rate and probably no lawsuits for false arrest working their way through civil court (last guy acquitted filed one according to ND).

 

[pokler]

As far as "Your[sic] not getting the full picture" - actually everyone is getting the what you say is the full picture so you can stop posting the same thing over again. However the vast majority that went to trial were not convicted of anything. That they had to go through large expenses of time and money, exposure to the public in the press, disruption of family life and perhaps their job over what appears to be just a publicity stunt (words to that effect stated in a ND editorial) is the only picture I see.

Although I would think (I have no data but it seems logical even from my own actions after the busts) that they somewhat accomplished reducing the amount guys calling ads on BP, I'm not sure that was the goal of Rice. IMHO, this was just a publicity stunt to show her as a hard hitting DA as a prelude to higher office. It certainly wasn't well thought out from a legal point of view as they should only have arrested those guys who actually made solicitations for sex for money. Setting up hidden cameras and audio recordings in the room and recording phone conversations in those cases would have been very difficult to beat in court. Yeah maybe she would have maybe only half the number of arrests but would have a 100% conviction rate and probably no lawsuits for false arrest working their way through civil court (last guy acquitted filed one according to ND).

Nobody would diagree it was a publicity stunt. What guys need to understand is that if you show up to a place from a BP add and have no intention of discusing sex or money , and indeed do not mention either, you still can be arrested and have your life ruined. If LE placed the add your calling the add and then going to the hotel is enough probable cause for arrest .

Just yesterday dozens of guys were busted in Houston in this very scenario. This is why TOFTT is so risky.

 

[thegent]

So... All in all go with your gut