Paying for incidentals

Banacek

Banacek

#21
#21
Your explanation was very clear, so apparanently you haven't had enough to drink yet. And I agree with that assessment, which is why I was surprised to find a way to debunk that using a variation on a skimmer called a shimmer. Here is the article about it:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...abled-cards-at-atms+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Fraudsters skim chip-enabled cards at ATMs
By Cory Bennett - 08/11/15 02:51 PM EDT
Fraudsters have started dropping devices into ATMs that can steal data off chip-enabled credit or debit cards.
The discovery of these tools in a number of ATMs throughout Mexico is likely to raise questions about the security of chip-enabled cards, which are seen as a safer alternative to the vulnerable magnetic-strip cards still widely used in the U.S.
Security journalist and researcher Brian Krebs first reported the discovery.
These devices, known as “shimmers,” lie between the chip on the card and the ATM’s chip reader. They then lift the chip’s data as it is read by the ATM. The shimmer can apparently be slipped straight into a typical ATM.
 
Banacek

Banacek

#22
#22
BTW, your explanation gives rise to an new term we should use on here for providers whose level of service changes each time. A dynamic hooker.
 
T

TheRicker

Moderator
#23
#23
You are still able to do a "basic" skim on cards with chips. The only issue is they will not be able to duplicate an actual card with their name on it using an embosser. They will only be able to do online purchases.
 
genius

genius

#24
#24
TheRicker said:
You are still able to do a "basic" skim on cards with chips. The only issue is they will not be able to duplicate an actual card with their name on it using an embosser. They will only be able to do online purchases.
Click to expand...
Correct, but we were talking about ATM debit cards. If you look at chip cards you have they still have the magnetic stripe for use with those vendors that do not have the chip reader. If fact Citibank does it both ways: When you use their ATMs you must use the chip function. When you are at the teller they use the magnetic strip - I assume because the chip encryption and verification wastes too much time and there is very little chance of someone installing a skimmer at the scanner right in front of the teller.

Also the chip card information can be compromised but it takes a lot of sophistication in that you would need to duplicate the function of the chip card reader (not a simple magnetic strip reader), read the chip info containing the account # and somehow get to the pin and then create a magnetic strip for a bogus card. You would not be able to duplicate the chip function only the strip. There is also a scheme to hijack the ATM itself - this requires more sophistication and critical timing. The demonstration in Vegas of such a system was used to hijack $50,000 in cash from an ATM in under 15 minutes. This seems to me to be a bank problem and not a customer account problem as there are typical limits on how much can be taken out of an account per day, my bank I think it is on the order of $500 or so (guessing).

I don't see this happening at a 7-11 under with a store clerk always around when the store is open.
 
T

TheRicker

Moderator
#25
#25
Some ATM cards are also people's debit cards, which connect to their bank account.

You also have to watch the insurance and banking employees. Aflac and some other employees from other insurance and financial institutions were arrested in a multi state fraud case. They were selling customer info. It actually was a blood gang operation that started in Brooklyn
 
Slinky Bender

Slinky Bender

The All Powerful Moderator
#31
#31
I think the problem is that since not every place has a chip reader and people still like to use their cards for internet purchases that cards with chips can still be used "chiplessly".
 
genius

genius

#32
#32
TheRicker said:
If you use your ATM card at a non chip reading ATM, it's only using the magnetic strip.
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Don't do that. I would imagine those ATMs are at low end places, strip clubs come to mind, and places that haven't yet upgraded their ATMs. Just too easy to add a skimmer and a camera to record you entering your pin
 
genius

genius

#33
#33
Slinky Bender said:
I think the problem is that since not every place has a chip reader and people still like to use their cards for internet purchases that cards with chips can still be used "chiplessly".
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I got a phone call once from a vendor down south who go an order (for something that wasn't being shipped - I forget, $500 worth is phone time or web site time?). Anyway vendor guy was concerned because the guy who called in the order had an accent and voice that was inconsistent with my last name (figure it out guys - he obviously was not being politically correct ). The card was a Discover card that I hadn't used in a while (at one time BJ's only accepted Discover, that is the only reason I got that ridiculous card). Anyway I told the guy the order was bogus, he thanked me, I called Discover and notified them and cancelled the card (BJ's had since accepted VISA and MC).

PS. I never pay for anything on charge where I have to lose possession of my card, e.g. gas station attendant, bar tab, restaurant etc. My internet purchases are made on a Amazon VISA, with a low credit limit ($1000 - not too low so it screws up my FICO score) solely used for that purpose. Also the only vendor who can withdraw money from my checking account is my car/home/umbrella insurance company that gives me a discount for that privilege (they also deposit dividend checks, they are a mutual ins. co, so I don't have to deal with checks which is convenient).

As I have posted many times, paraphrasing my favorite author - “just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me”.
 
T

TheRicker

Moderator
#34
#34
genius said:
Don't do that. I would imagine those ATMs are at low end places, strip clubs come to mind, and places that haven't yet upgraded their ATMs. Just too easy to add a skimmer and a camera to record you entering your pin
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Even some banks that have issued chip cards have not switched their ATM's to chip reading ATM's . I'm not talking small banks. Major banks like bank of America come to mind.
 
genius

genius

#35
#35
TheRicker said:
Even some banks that have issued chip cards have not switched their ATM's to chip reading ATM's . I'm not talking small banks. Major banks like bank of America come to mind.
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Sounds like a good target for skimmers.
BTW - Probably 1/3 the time at a checkout, the person in front of me pays with a debit card. I don't understand why so many people do this.
 
T

TheRicker

Moderator
#36
#36
genius said:
Didn't know 7-eleven sold phones. I only go there for emergencies - like if I run out of beer or I need to use the Citibank ATM for some whoring cash and don't want to go to the bank's atm in the middle of the night.
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7-11 ATMs although some are Citibank, none are chip enabled. Fyi.
 
genius

genius

#37
#37
TheRicker said:
7-11 ATMs although some are Citibank, none are chip enabled. Fyi.
Click to expand...
I have never seen a 7-11 atm that was not citibank. Very useful when you are somewhere where there aren't citibanks - Vegas comes to mind (when I was there anyway a few years back).
Hence my statement "I only go there for emergencies". BTW - skimmer is only useful to the crooks if they get your password. I cover the keypad with my hand when I enter it in case there is a camera somewhere.
 
T

TheRicker

Moderator
#38
#38
Everyone should really read up on these skimmers, they are more complex than people realize. It's not only the part you dip or swipe your card through. They sometimes have ways to follow what pin code is, or even key pad that goes over the original. Covering your code from the camera might not always work. I might beat genius on the paranoia scale on this topic. Lol
 
genius

genius

#39
#39
Banacek said:
Hijacking an ATM, no. Installing a skimmer, yes. Do an internet search. Amazing how many reports there are of this occurring at 7-Eleven stores.
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There are over 8000 7-11 stores in the US which I find to be surprising as I thought there would be more as Farmingdale area has 6 or so. Anyway, the owners have a lot to lose if a skimmer is put in their atm. The skimming I've heard about I the news were all in unattended machines such as ticket machines in train stations. I'll take my chances if I need money in an emergency late at night at a 7-11 rather than at a closed bank outside atm off of the highway.
 
Banacek

Banacek

#40
#40
I thought it was odd, too, that someone would put a skimmer on an ATM at a 7-Eleven rather than at an unattended bank terminal. Especially drive-up ones. But I personally know someone who received notice from their bank that they may have been compromised due to their using a 7-Eleven terminal on LI. It might have something to do with terminal users leaving their guard down at what they assume is a secure location. It may also have to do with the volume of business that these stores do on Long Island. Last year Newsday had a story on LI 7-Elevens (http://www.newsday.com/business/li-7-eleven-stores-top-performers-for-chain-1.7082543) and some of the top performing ones in the nation are right here on LI.
 
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