Pops has been friendly and supportive towards me since my early days on UG, he never asked or expected any special favors, he's just a good guy. I don't see anything alarming about this thread, we are not flaming any particular person, it's basically a general discussion no different then dozens I've viewed before.
Millennial American born providers problematic?
- Thread starter popeye
- Start date
Wow!!! The gang is here!!! My-my-my it is good to see some of the handles that have posted here, its been like forever. So many valid points of view. Let me see if I can do the impossible, be succinct and to the point in making my comments:
1) Yes- when younger my hobby expectations were much different than they are now. I was a frigging jackrabbit looking to hump anything that moved. So it is true expectations have been tempered by time.
2) With the passage of time I developed regulars that I would see routinely- now close over a decade. Obviously engaging in sex with someone over many years will foster a level of intimacy. So where they may have the "Outback" routine for others, which one or two have acknowledged to me, I get the mistress service.
3) It is apparent to me item 2 above very much colors my view on the hobby today.
4) Yet, and I discussed this with one of my regulars recently, it still seems to me in the past the effort to develop regular clientele was more pervasive than it is today. At the core of my comment is the idea that in the past younger providers brought up through a house, or under a madam, tended to work for repeat clients more than your typical internet based provider of today. My point is today's youngun wants to make the big score, or catch the big fish right away and not develop a business per se.
5) Yes at the end of the day I am here to enjoy female flesh in all its wonderful splendor, for a price to keep things anonymous. So regardless of how the market changes I guess I will be a John as long as the impulse is in me. However, with the passage of time the type of service I like has changed, and I also feel the landscape of hobbying has changed as well.
6) It should be noted outside of our world numerous articles have been written about the current millennial generation and work ethic. I made the observation as a hobbyist and wished to see if others had a similar experience. The response so far have been quite interesting.
7) I "heart" Emily!!! We have never met, although I pretended to do so once, and she caught my ruse. I just have the biggest crush on her because I love her moxy, and intelligence. Plus she is built the way I like. Call it stupid or knowing my kryptonite, if I were to see her I know I would cross the emotional line.
Regards,
Pops
1) Yes- when younger my hobby expectations were much different than they are now. I was a frigging jackrabbit looking to hump anything that moved. So it is true expectations have been tempered by time.
2) With the passage of time I developed regulars that I would see routinely- now close over a decade. Obviously engaging in sex with someone over many years will foster a level of intimacy. So where they may have the "Outback" routine for others, which one or two have acknowledged to me, I get the mistress service.
3) It is apparent to me item 2 above very much colors my view on the hobby today.
4) Yet, and I discussed this with one of my regulars recently, it still seems to me in the past the effort to develop regular clientele was more pervasive than it is today. At the core of my comment is the idea that in the past younger providers brought up through a house, or under a madam, tended to work for repeat clients more than your typical internet based provider of today. My point is today's youngun wants to make the big score, or catch the big fish right away and not develop a business per se.
5) Yes at the end of the day I am here to enjoy female flesh in all its wonderful splendor, for a price to keep things anonymous. So regardless of how the market changes I guess I will be a John as long as the impulse is in me. However, with the passage of time the type of service I like has changed, and I also feel the landscape of hobbying has changed as well.
6) It should be noted outside of our world numerous articles have been written about the current millennial generation and work ethic. I made the observation as a hobbyist and wished to see if others had a similar experience. The response so far have been quite interesting.
7) I "heart" Emily!!! We have never met, although I pretended to do so once, and she caught my ruse. I just have the biggest crush on her because I love her moxy, and intelligence. Plus she is built the way I like. Call it stupid or knowing my kryptonite, if I were to see her I know I would cross the emotional line.
Regards,
Pops
I didn't think it was a ruse, I was happy to have private correspondence with you, it doesn't always have to be business. I accept my limits wouldn't suit your needs and I rather keep a longtime friend in the community then persuade any member to comprise. I'm fortune to have a excellent man like you on my side, not everyone feels the way you do about me.
Darling,
You know its been said many times to the point of being trite, that is, you cannot please everyone. At the end of the day your conscience is all that matters, and how it makes you feel. Just be the best at being you and treat everyone the best you can, unless they deserve otherwise. Life is simple but we make it complicated by allowing the nonsense of others to take control in our lives.
Ignore the noise of others for what it is, consider it the monotone background to your life’s soundtrack which booms in stereo.
Xoxox.
Pops
You know its been said many times to the point of being trite, that is, you cannot please everyone. At the end of the day your conscience is all that matters, and how it makes you feel. Just be the best at being you and treat everyone the best you can, unless they deserve otherwise. Life is simple but we make it complicated by allowing the nonsense of others to take control in our lives.
Ignore the noise of others for what it is, consider it the monotone background to your life’s soundtrack which booms in stereo.
Xoxox.
Pops
Pops, I always tried to live my life conscience driven and how you feel about the person you are at the end if the day. I know there are people who are not happy without conflict surrounding them, they dig deep to find it and hold on to it as if their life depends on it. I've seen this from both sides of the community but the good people like you always outweighs the bad.
On topic I do think when providers are predominately driven by money it does affect the way you conduct your business. The recession can also play a part in this disconnect you feel from the new generation. You would think it cause everyone to step up their game but as history dictates some of the most ruthless and indifferent behavior manifests during desperate times. These ladies can just be a product of the harsh times we are living in, it's just another theory. I had the luxury of being picky in my early days which allowed me to ease into my comfort zone and know my capabilies and limits.
On topic I do think when providers are predominately driven by money it does affect the way you conduct your business. The recession can also play a part in this disconnect you feel from the new generation. You would think it cause everyone to step up their game but as history dictates some of the most ruthless and indifferent behavior manifests during desperate times. These ladies can just be a product of the harsh times we are living in, it's just another theory. I had the luxury of being picky in my early days which allowed me to ease into my comfort zone and know my capabilies and limits.
Interesting observation with regard to desperate times requiring desperate measures. Your comments reminded me of the 07-08 recession and calls I used to get from providers. Some who I had only called but never visited. Who were suffering because most of their clients were jobless. These women saw their income fall by half over night. What fascinated me at the time was receiving more calls from women who I hardly seen due to uninspired service, than the one or two that I genuinely liked because of quality times.
As a matter of fact in those days I would call the women I wouldn't hear from to check on how they were doing. They always appreciated the call, and would ask the next time I would visit without added pressure.
Years later I asked one why she didn't pressure me to visit when times were hard, and she said it was clear everyone was suffering and calling wouldn't change things. She knew if I had the time and funds I would visit. Her thoughts were all she had to do was weather the storm by limiting expenses to get through the hard times. She wasn't ready to beg for clients. If someone wanted to see her and was short of funds she was okay with it, because something was better than nothing. She limited her service exclusively to regulars who she could trust. As a matter of fact she took over the business from another lady during the recession, and that lady called clients to the point of driving most away. My friend had to rebuild the business during the recession. Aggressive tactics do not necessarily translate into business. Another thought these younguns need to learn.
These days my friend tells me business hasn't returned to mid aught levels but she has built a steady reliable clientele that helped her through the hard times. Her income is virtually guaranteed because of her loyal customer base. So my dear Emily based on my experience your comments would seem valid.
Regards,
Pops
As a matter of fact in those days I would call the women I wouldn't hear from to check on how they were doing. They always appreciated the call, and would ask the next time I would visit without added pressure.
Years later I asked one why she didn't pressure me to visit when times were hard, and she said it was clear everyone was suffering and calling wouldn't change things. She knew if I had the time and funds I would visit. Her thoughts were all she had to do was weather the storm by limiting expenses to get through the hard times. She wasn't ready to beg for clients. If someone wanted to see her and was short of funds she was okay with it, because something was better than nothing. She limited her service exclusively to regulars who she could trust. As a matter of fact she took over the business from another lady during the recession, and that lady called clients to the point of driving most away. My friend had to rebuild the business during the recession. Aggressive tactics do not necessarily translate into business. Another thought these younguns need to learn.
These days my friend tells me business hasn't returned to mid aught levels but she has built a steady reliable clientele that helped her through the hard times. Her income is virtually guaranteed because of her loyal customer base. So my dear Emily based on my experience your comments would seem valid.
Regards,
Pops
Pops, I know some of my friends who charged top dollar and had a revolving door policy took a dip after the crash. I recieved some warnings from finance clients prior to crash to be prepared so when it happened, I wasn't shocked and even saw signsof trouble ahead before the day . The ladies who conducted their business like we were always in bad economy didn't suffer to much but honestly it's only good for longevity and stability not major profit to work that way.
I know this might seem controversial but I think time wasters who just contact providers pretending to be serious for kicks take emotional energy away from serious inquiries. I blame them as much ss anything else if a provider becomes jaded, it's one of the reasons I will never post a number. I believe the whole community should frown on them, I believe every bad or good action has a reaction to someone else.
I know this might seem controversial but I think time wasters who just contact providers pretending to be serious for kicks take emotional energy away from serious inquiries. I blame them as much ss anything else if a provider becomes jaded, it's one of the reasons I will never post a number. I believe the whole community should frown on them, I believe every bad or good action has a reaction to someone else.
Unfortunately, they do. As much as I prefer the company of gentlemen who think like you they are not in the majority. There's been times when I've had to buckle down and be aggressive and it got me the results I needed. So long as you're honest, consistent, and reliable, most guys don't mind aggressive. On average, guys get annoyed when it's a bait and switch overpromise-underdeliver thing.
Aggressive sales pitch+Awesome service usually means a big increase in $$$. The subtle stuff works for established girls who have a healthy savings and hearty stable of regulars. Plus, guys can sense when a girl really needs the money but is pretending to be "subtle". On average, most prefer frank honesty.
The stereotypes in the business are there for a reason-because there is a grain of truth in them.
Now, I will concede that with proper marketing and money management it IS possible to structure your business such that you spend the most time with high-quality, good guys.
It's just that that is time consuming, and women who work often have to deal with deadlines. By the time a woman is "established" enough to have a steady flow of those clients, deadlines may have passed, and windows of opportunity may have closed...and catastrophes may have occurred.
Aggressive sales pitch+Awesome service usually means a big increase in $$$. The subtle stuff works for established girls who have a healthy savings and hearty stable of regulars. Plus, guys can sense when a girl really needs the money but is pretending to be "subtle". On average, most prefer frank honesty.
The stereotypes in the business are there for a reason-because there is a grain of truth in them.
Now, I will concede that with proper marketing and money management it IS possible to structure your business such that you spend the most time with high-quality, good guys.
It's just that that is time consuming, and women who work often have to deal with deadlines. By the time a woman is "established" enough to have a steady flow of those clients, deadlines may have passed, and windows of opportunity may have closed...and catastrophes may have occurred.
Ann,
Thanks for your perspective. Having never seen your handle before I looked you up. From your website it appears you are under 25 years in age, or if the site is dated you are at least under 30. I mention your age because it is essentially members of your generation that is the subject of this thread. I appreciate your post because in a way it may be reflective of those in your generation, or may not, because you may be an exception to the rule. Regardless, welcome and keep posting.
I find your comment interesting especially from the standpoint of someone trying to get established. In a previous life I worked in a few start-up companies and can relate to the need to be heard. This often translates into being more aggressive about marketing than may be required by more established companies in a specified market. Basically marketing 101 for the start-up. And as you pointed out the start-up has to consistently follow up the hype they create by delivering quality service/ product in order to develop a reputation and ultimately a market base.
Then again there is a fine line between being aggressive and being viewed as harassing your customers.
Or for that matter showing aggression to the customer in the name of being proactive. Many people confuse the two, I always say the market is the ultimate test and if customers come calling then you are doing something right. If they don't respond positively to your marketing then you are doing something wrong. So to clarify earlier statements by me my comments are clearly for those doing something wrong. By extension I will say my perception is most younger newcomers into the sex trade are doing a lot of things wrong with their marketing and client relations. Hence my starting this thread.
At the end of the day it boils down to the tone the provider decides to take with clients. It is true, as Emily pointed out, providers have to deal with many jerks. Believe it or not those in retail, flight attendants, and anyone dealing with customers on a daily basis will say the same thing. Yet in all cases the tone taken with the customer by staff is what makes the difference between repeat sales and a customer feeling hustled and never returning.
Truth in advertising and delivering good service helps establish a customer base, but nothing beats the tone used with the customer in closing the deal.
Regards,
Pops
Thanks for your perspective. Having never seen your handle before I looked you up. From your website it appears you are under 25 years in age, or if the site is dated you are at least under 30. I mention your age because it is essentially members of your generation that is the subject of this thread. I appreciate your post because in a way it may be reflective of those in your generation, or may not, because you may be an exception to the rule. Regardless, welcome and keep posting.
I find your comment interesting especially from the standpoint of someone trying to get established. In a previous life I worked in a few start-up companies and can relate to the need to be heard. This often translates into being more aggressive about marketing than may be required by more established companies in a specified market. Basically marketing 101 for the start-up. And as you pointed out the start-up has to consistently follow up the hype they create by delivering quality service/ product in order to develop a reputation and ultimately a market base.
Then again there is a fine line between being aggressive and being viewed as harassing your customers.
Or for that matter showing aggression to the customer in the name of being proactive. Many people confuse the two, I always say the market is the ultimate test and if customers come calling then you are doing something right. If they don't respond positively to your marketing then you are doing something wrong. So to clarify earlier statements by me my comments are clearly for those doing something wrong. By extension I will say my perception is most younger newcomers into the sex trade are doing a lot of things wrong with their marketing and client relations. Hence my starting this thread.
At the end of the day it boils down to the tone the provider decides to take with clients. It is true, as Emily pointed out, providers have to deal with many jerks. Believe it or not those in retail, flight attendants, and anyone dealing with customers on a daily basis will say the same thing. Yet in all cases the tone taken with the customer by staff is what makes the difference between repeat sales and a customer feeling hustled and never returning.
Truth in advertising and delivering good service helps establish a customer base, but nothing beats the tone used with the customer in closing the deal.
Regards,
Pops
Aggressive is an unpleasant and unnatural manner for me and I become resentful towards guys who push me into it by provoking me, I can only ask something politely the same thing before I realize polite is not working and need a more aggressive approach. I follow a great line from a bad film, "I want you to be nice.. until it's time..to not be nice". I know there are ladies who have a take no prisoners approach and bless them, they are smart buisness women but live confrontation lingers and weighs on me.
These are people with no intention of scheduling, they just ask incriminating sleazy and sometimes bizarre questions or play let's make a deal. If there is many in a short period of time it does put me on guard affecting the emotional energy and patience I reseeve for my legit inquires. If they were really serious should put up their own detailed post in casual encounters instead of acts of coercion. I believe I read you have done this which I think is the right way to go about seeking a specific type of service and look for the rate you want.
There is a bit of wiggle room between the opposite poles of either being polite with cads to such a degree that the adrenal gland starts to trigger fight or flight response and the Vladimir Putin type social pathology where other people are merely a means to an end.
As an aside almost -- A good friend of mine told me the other week that she thought Putin was sexy because he is macho. I knew she was just trying to get under my skin. I countered that she should love GW Bush or Rudy Guiliani. I think I parried an obvious attempt to goad me while also scoring a direct hit on the recovery with that one.
The best partners, pay or civilian, both male and female -- have some ability to just enjoy the moment on their own terms and summarily reject bullshit early and without any obvious displeasure before it spins out of control.
As an aside almost -- A good friend of mine told me the other week that she thought Putin was sexy because he is macho. I knew she was just trying to get under my skin. I countered that she should love GW Bush or Rudy Guiliani. I think I parried an obvious attempt to goad me while also scoring a direct hit on the recovery with that one.
The best partners, pay or civilian, both male and female -- have some ability to just enjoy the moment on their own terms and summarily reject bullshit early and without any obvious displeasure before it spins out of control.