With Clemens dominating last year and with Pedro and Maddux off to 4-0 start, it begs the question are these guys better than the Gibsons, Seavers and Koufaux of yesteryears. From what I've seen, I think Sandy's career was too short, I put Pedro as the greatest pitcher of all time. He dominated the steroids era.
Greatest Pitcher of All Time
- Thread starter Lascivious
- Start date
Clemens.
Mets fans don't want to hear it or give him his due, but he played in the American League with a DH, in the super ball era, with steroid jacked up monsters hitting 50 and 60 hrs a year, a shrunken strike zone, lowered mounds, shortened fences (especially in Fenway) and anything else Selig and pals could dream up to influence hitting more HR's and boosting offensive numbers.
Had he played in the 60's and 70's he'd have been in the low 2's high 1's in era every season and probably would have won 30 games a few times with even a half decent team.
Mets fans don't want to hear it or give him his due, but he played in the American League with a DH, in the super ball era, with steroid jacked up monsters hitting 50 and 60 hrs a year, a shrunken strike zone, lowered mounds, shortened fences (especially in Fenway) and anything else Selig and pals could dream up to influence hitting more HR's and boosting offensive numbers.
Had he played in the 60's and 70's he'd have been in the low 2's high 1's in era every season and probably would have won 30 games a few times with even a half decent team.
In terms of sheer dominance as a pitcher: Mariano Rivera
Without question, the most feared pitcher currently pitching.
If we confine this to starters: Koufax, Walter Johnson, Clemens, Ford, Gibson, Sachel Paige, Nolan Ryan, and Bob Feller.
If you want to add the ability to hit; there is only the Babe, although Drysdale and Larsen could get some consideration.
Without question, the most feared pitcher currently pitching.
If we confine this to starters: Koufax, Walter Johnson, Clemens, Ford, Gibson, Sachel Paige, Nolan Ryan, and Bob Feller.
If you want to add the ability to hit; there is only the Babe, although Drysdale and Larsen could get some consideration.
Sachel Paige was well into his 40's when he got to the majors... so its pretty hard to compare him though there were many HOF quality players in the negro leagues.
If your'e going to go back as far as Walter Johnson... Cristy Mattewson was better and Cy Young..... well 511 wins says it all.
Larsen was average at best. His career record was 81 - 91 with an ERA in that was almost 4.00. Never won more than 11 in a season. He threw one brilliant game on the largest stage of all. He wasn't a great one aside from one day in the fall of 1956.
If your'e going to go back as far as Walter Johnson... Cristy Mattewson was better and Cy Young..... well 511 wins says it all.
Larsen was average at best. His career record was 81 - 91 with an ERA in that was almost 4.00. Never won more than 11 in a season. He threw one brilliant game on the largest stage of all. He wasn't a great one aside from one day in the fall of 1956.
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Ozzy said:
Clemens.
Mets fans don't want to hear it or give him his due, but he played in the American League.....
Mets fans don't want to hear it or give him his due, but he played in the American League.....
I was thinking of some other names, but certainly no one has done it like Roger for as long as he has done it. I think when all is said and done, he and Maddox will be top 5 all time. If he doesn't come back, there's no reason to think Maddox won't pass him on all time win list.
Off Baseball HOF website
Nolan Ryan:
Played For: New York Mets (1966, 1968-1971), California Angels (1972-1979), Houston Astros (1980-1988 ), Texas Rangers (1989-1993)
Primary Team: California Angels
Post-Season: 1969 NLCS, 1969 World Series, 1979 ALCS, 1980 NLCS, 1981 NLDS, 1986 NLCS
Awards: All Star (8): 1972-1973, 1975, 1977, 1979, 1981, 1985, 1989
Pitching
With a blazing fastball that approached 100 miles per hour and a work ethic like none other, Nolan Ryan dominated hitters for an unparalleled 27 seasons on his way to 5,714 strikeouts, an all-time record. During four decades of prominence, he totaled 324 victories and a host of major league records. Most notable of his milestones are a mystifying seven no-hitters and 12 one-hitters. The eight-time All-Star fanned a single-season record 383 batters in 1973, and his career strikeouts encompassed 1,176 different players.
27 years, 324 wins. Take the Met years away (dont have the stats handy), keep the wins. 14 wins a year average.
Nolan Ryan:
Played For: New York Mets (1966, 1968-1971), California Angels (1972-1979), Houston Astros (1980-1988 ), Texas Rangers (1989-1993)
Primary Team: California Angels
Post-Season: 1969 NLCS, 1969 World Series, 1979 ALCS, 1980 NLCS, 1981 NLDS, 1986 NLCS
Awards: All Star (8): 1972-1973, 1975, 1977, 1979, 1981, 1985, 1989
Pitching
With a blazing fastball that approached 100 miles per hour and a work ethic like none other, Nolan Ryan dominated hitters for an unparalleled 27 seasons on his way to 5,714 strikeouts, an all-time record. During four decades of prominence, he totaled 324 victories and a host of major league records. Most notable of his milestones are a mystifying seven no-hitters and 12 one-hitters. The eight-time All-Star fanned a single-season record 383 batters in 1973, and his career strikeouts encompassed 1,176 different players.
27 years, 324 wins. Take the Met years away (dont have the stats handy), keep the wins. 14 wins a year average.
robnotbob said:
Nolan Ryan:
Played For: New York Mets (1966, 1968-1971), California Angels (1972-1979), Houston Astros (1980-1988 ), Texas Rangers (1989-1993)
Primary Team: California Angels
Post-Season: 1969 NLCS, 1969 World Series, 1979 ALCS, 1980 NLCS, 1981 NLDS, 1986 NLCS
Awards: All Star (8): 1972-1973, 1975, 1977, 1979, 1981, 1985, 1989
Pitching
With a blazing fastball that approached 100 miles per hour and a work ethic like none other, Nolan Ryan dominated hitters for an unparalleled 27 seasons on his way to 5,714 strikeouts, an all-time record. During four decades of prominence, he totaled 324 victories and a host of major league records. Most notable of his milestones are a mystifying seven no-hitters and 12 one-hitters. The eight-time All-Star fanned a single-season record 383 batters in 1973, and his career strikeouts encompassed 1,176 different players.
27 years, 324 wins. Take the Met years away (dont have the stats handy), keep the wins. 14 wins a year average.
Played For: New York Mets (1966, 1968-1971), California Angels (1972-1979), Houston Astros (1980-1988 ), Texas Rangers (1989-1993)
Primary Team: California Angels
Post-Season: 1969 NLCS, 1969 World Series, 1979 ALCS, 1980 NLCS, 1981 NLDS, 1986 NLCS
Awards: All Star (8): 1972-1973, 1975, 1977, 1979, 1981, 1985, 1989
Pitching
With a blazing fastball that approached 100 miles per hour and a work ethic like none other, Nolan Ryan dominated hitters for an unparalleled 27 seasons on his way to 5,714 strikeouts, an all-time record. During four decades of prominence, he totaled 324 victories and a host of major league records. Most notable of his milestones are a mystifying seven no-hitters and 12 one-hitters. The eight-time All-Star fanned a single-season record 383 batters in 1973, and his career strikeouts encompassed 1,176 different players.
27 years, 324 wins. Take the Met years away (dont have the stats handy), keep the wins. 14 wins a year average.
i only excluded him from my list because of the .500 issue.
he was plagued by control problems from time to time. perhaps the reason for .500.
he certainly ranks up their and perhaps I should have listed him as well.
The reason for .500 was the fact he played on some of the most horrible teams in baseball history.... the Angles thru-out the 70's set records for ineptness. Not to mention the Astros' were pretty bad a few of those early/late 80's years and of course the Texas Rangers who were a pathetic team. For example... in his 8 seasons with the Angles his era was...2.28, 2.87, 2.89, 3.45, 3.36, 2.77, 3.72, 3.60. Or how about 1987 with the pitiful Astros when he had a 2.76 era and an 8-16 record. BTW... his career era was 3.19. Not bad for a guy who pitched till his upper 40's. The only two years he won 20 games was also the ony two years he pitched 300 or more innings... in other words, his bullpens blew a hell of a fucking lot of games for him.
The stat that says it all though is 27 years - 5 years in the play-offs. That's 22 years of baseball that his team never saw the playoffs. 15 of those years in the bottom two of the division.
His strikeout total will never be broken. Roger Clemens as great a strikeout pitcher he was, and after 22 seasons in the league is still 1200 K's behind Ryan. Same goes for Randy Johnson with 19 years and he's 1400 K's away.
The stat that says it all though is 27 years - 5 years in the play-offs. That's 22 years of baseball that his team never saw the playoffs. 15 of those years in the bottom two of the division.
His strikeout total will never be broken. Roger Clemens as great a strikeout pitcher he was, and after 22 seasons in the league is still 1200 K's behind Ryan. Same goes for Randy Johnson with 19 years and he's 1400 K's away.
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