Combining posts from Santorum Thread
In the Santorum thread, a subtheme concerning Flint Michigan arose. The below are posts from Fair Emily, Sambucca, and myself (edited to include just the information about Flint) to create this new thread. The thread will be "made sticky" so it will stay on the top of the forum. The current story of Flint Michigan may well have larger implications which merit a multi-year conversation. This new thread is an experiment to keep alive that discussion esp when lulls can be expected for lack of news for many months --Duckman
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Do you know right now the mayor of Flint elected by the people has no power? it is all controled by a private citizen appointed by the GOP governor Rick Snyder because he passed an antidemocratic law himself to be able to do so. It might not be a big deal to people outside of Flint but if it can happen there then it can happen anywhere in tis country, that's Imperialism not Democracy.
--Fair Emily
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The reason the Mayor of Flint has no power is because A. his city is bankrupt and B. Snyder's predecessor Granholm opposed it's going into Chapter 9 ( I think it is. ) The alternative is to have a state appointed receiver or trustee administer the city's finance's. Detroit is going through the same thing. There is a shining example of of 50 years of successful liberal Democrat policy !
--Sambucca
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There are many cities in finacial trouble it's doesn't mean you take away the democracy of the citizens who dwell there. I don't care how bad things get, elected officials must either be recalled or resign, no one person should have the power to remove thier authority. Isn't that what elections are all about, we choose who represents us as a people, if one person has that authority then we no longer can say we are a Democracy and go to other countries waging wars to make thier system what we do not really have ourselves.
Rick Snyder is not preforming any miracles and that goes to same for Brewer, Kasich, Walker, Scott, Haley, McDonell and all the other newly elected GOP governors. Many of thier states rank the worst and some have the highest disapproval ratings, Walker is being recalled, happened only twice in the history of America, that's how unpopular thier radical Koch approved polices are with the citizens.
--Fair Emily
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We are republic. Big Difference.
And NYC had (has) a similar situation. If we trash our finances too badly, management of the city shifts to the state's Financial Control Board. Screwing up the city coffers has consequences. One can't just spend like a drunken sailor and expect nothing to happen. Sooner or later someone will have to clean-up the mess. Probably someone from another city or county... or possibly another state...that DIDN'T VOTE for the inept city government that pissed away their treasury. Those people might not think it's democratic that THEY have to clean-up after someone else's mess.
Yet... at some level we did vote. If the f-'ed up city is in the same state as you... both you and the residents of that other city voted for the same state legislature/executive. If this rectification occurs at the national level, well we both voted for same national legislature/executive. Saying anything else twists the situation for very little gain except sensationalism. Twisting this isn't about Democrat or Republican... it's about right and wrong.
--Duckman
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Who judges which city loses democracy, the whole country has finacial problems. I still don't condone it, if the elected offical failed then it's up to he people to vote a new one in. The governor can send aid but what happened in Michigan was a law was passed to allow a hostile takeover of elected officials. Isn't the whole GOP Tea Party argument of small government about the people having more of say, what Snyder did was as big government as it gets, it's worse the the Health Care Bill that everyone calls the president a Marxist over. Snyder completely imposed his personal choice to rule instead of who the people choose, that's alright and what the president did is not, I don't get it. If the wealthy parts of a state can take away the democracy of the poorer parts how is that not Imperialism.
--Fair Emily
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If a city goes bankrupt it is supposed to go into Chapter 9 Bankruptcy. This causes all sorts of political conniptions because in most states , N.Y. is an exception, all contracts get torn up. ONLY retirees get some protection for their pensions. The municipal unions like AFSCME and SEIU start going ape-shit. Granholm caved to them and kept Flint and Detroit ( among a number of other Michigan cities) out of Chapter 9. The result has been what ? Continued postponement of the inevitable and continued outside supervision and management of municipal finances. Just like NYC in the mid and late 70's. Koch had no control over a lot of spending and ALL City borrowing well into his SECOND term.
--Sambucca
----------------------------------------------------
Snyder is targeting cities with the highest African American populations, half of the African American population in Michigan has lost the democracy the rest of the country has, there had to have been a better way. It's such a weird state, I believe one of the biggest wealth disparity then any other in America, this is why I think he should have been more thoughtful, the economic lines are so dramatic. The way he did it was "I'm in charge and your votes do not count anymore" I never heard of this happening in any other place no matter how troubled some of the cities became, I do not approve whatever his justification.
--Fair Emily
In the Santorum thread, a subtheme concerning Flint Michigan arose. The below are posts from Fair Emily, Sambucca, and myself (edited to include just the information about Flint) to create this new thread. The thread will be "made sticky" so it will stay on the top of the forum. The current story of Flint Michigan may well have larger implications which merit a multi-year conversation. This new thread is an experiment to keep alive that discussion esp when lulls can be expected for lack of news for many months --Duckman
==================================
Do you know right now the mayor of Flint elected by the people has no power? it is all controled by a private citizen appointed by the GOP governor Rick Snyder because he passed an antidemocratic law himself to be able to do so. It might not be a big deal to people outside of Flint but if it can happen there then it can happen anywhere in tis country, that's Imperialism not Democracy.
--Fair Emily
----------------------------------------------------
The reason the Mayor of Flint has no power is because A. his city is bankrupt and B. Snyder's predecessor Granholm opposed it's going into Chapter 9 ( I think it is. ) The alternative is to have a state appointed receiver or trustee administer the city's finance's. Detroit is going through the same thing. There is a shining example of of 50 years of successful liberal Democrat policy !
--Sambucca
----------------------------------------------------
There are many cities in finacial trouble it's doesn't mean you take away the democracy of the citizens who dwell there. I don't care how bad things get, elected officials must either be recalled or resign, no one person should have the power to remove thier authority. Isn't that what elections are all about, we choose who represents us as a people, if one person has that authority then we no longer can say we are a Democracy and go to other countries waging wars to make thier system what we do not really have ourselves.
Rick Snyder is not preforming any miracles and that goes to same for Brewer, Kasich, Walker, Scott, Haley, McDonell and all the other newly elected GOP governors. Many of thier states rank the worst and some have the highest disapproval ratings, Walker is being recalled, happened only twice in the history of America, that's how unpopular thier radical Koch approved polices are with the citizens.
--Fair Emily
----------------------------------------------------
We are republic. Big Difference.
And NYC had (has) a similar situation. If we trash our finances too badly, management of the city shifts to the state's Financial Control Board. Screwing up the city coffers has consequences. One can't just spend like a drunken sailor and expect nothing to happen. Sooner or later someone will have to clean-up the mess. Probably someone from another city or county... or possibly another state...that DIDN'T VOTE for the inept city government that pissed away their treasury. Those people might not think it's democratic that THEY have to clean-up after someone else's mess.
Yet... at some level we did vote. If the f-'ed up city is in the same state as you... both you and the residents of that other city voted for the same state legislature/executive. If this rectification occurs at the national level, well we both voted for same national legislature/executive. Saying anything else twists the situation for very little gain except sensationalism. Twisting this isn't about Democrat or Republican... it's about right and wrong.
--Duckman
----------------------------------------------------
Who judges which city loses democracy, the whole country has finacial problems. I still don't condone it, if the elected offical failed then it's up to he people to vote a new one in. The governor can send aid but what happened in Michigan was a law was passed to allow a hostile takeover of elected officials. Isn't the whole GOP Tea Party argument of small government about the people having more of say, what Snyder did was as big government as it gets, it's worse the the Health Care Bill that everyone calls the president a Marxist over. Snyder completely imposed his personal choice to rule instead of who the people choose, that's alright and what the president did is not, I don't get it. If the wealthy parts of a state can take away the democracy of the poorer parts how is that not Imperialism.
--Fair Emily
----------------------------------------------------
If a city goes bankrupt it is supposed to go into Chapter 9 Bankruptcy. This causes all sorts of political conniptions because in most states , N.Y. is an exception, all contracts get torn up. ONLY retirees get some protection for their pensions. The municipal unions like AFSCME and SEIU start going ape-shit. Granholm caved to them and kept Flint and Detroit ( among a number of other Michigan cities) out of Chapter 9. The result has been what ? Continued postponement of the inevitable and continued outside supervision and management of municipal finances. Just like NYC in the mid and late 70's. Koch had no control over a lot of spending and ALL City borrowing well into his SECOND term.
--Sambucca
----------------------------------------------------
Snyder is targeting cities with the highest African American populations, half of the African American population in Michigan has lost the democracy the rest of the country has, there had to have been a better way. It's such a weird state, I believe one of the biggest wealth disparity then any other in America, this is why I think he should have been more thoughtful, the economic lines are so dramatic. The way he did it was "I'm in charge and your votes do not count anymore" I never heard of this happening in any other place no matter how troubled some of the cities became, I do not approve whatever his justification.
--Fair Emily
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