Addiction, Mental Illness or just being an asshole? How do you know the difference?
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Harvey is an asshole who wasted his talented, stopped working hard and partying when his ego got too big for the room. He will end up broke and circling the drain like Dykstra in the years to come. If he really did supply Skaggs with those pills, then his ass should go to jail as an example to the younger kids coming up who think pills are no big deal. Getting lit with some pills and a little booze to ease the pain. Total jerk off
It's easy for us to sit here and look at a talented, well paid athlete and call him an asshole because he ruins his career with drugs.
Well know examples that always come up are Gooden and Strawberry. Now Harvey.
I think if you've never had to deal with addiction, or have seen someone you know go thru addiction then it's impossible to really understand why these guys keep fucking up.
Depression, bipolar and other forms of mental illness are real. They are actually heritatery. Sometimes they are part of the addiction problem, sometimes they are a separate issue.
Just because you are a gifted athlete doesn't mean you can't also suffer from one of the above.
So let's hear it.
Those of you who think the above is all bullshit and people should just tough it out get on your soap boxes. I'm giving you this forum, but keep it out of the other threads.
Those of you who might have some in sight as to what addiction or mental health problems can do to people and their families can maybe enlighten some of us here.
Well know examples that always come up are Gooden and Strawberry. Now Harvey.
I think if you've never had to deal with addiction, or have seen someone you know go thru addiction then it's impossible to really understand why these guys keep fucking up.
Depression, bipolar and other forms of mental illness are real. They are actually heritatery. Sometimes they are part of the addiction problem, sometimes they are a separate issue.
Just because you are a gifted athlete doesn't mean you can't also suffer from one of the above.
So let's hear it.
Those of you who think the above is all bullshit and people should just tough it out get on your soap boxes. I'm giving you this forum, but keep it out of the other threads.
Those of you who might have some in sight as to what addiction or mental health problems can do to people and their families can maybe enlighten some of us here.
My father died a recovering alcoholic. He passed from stomach cancer after 16 years of no longer drinking, but the physical damage had been done. Because of that, I don't drink at all. I'm too afraid that what led him down that path is hard-wired in me and I'm not taking that chance. It didn't help him that he saw some shit in the Korean War and being the time he grew up in, the idea that men would talk about their feelings and experiences just was not the norm. "Soldiers don't cry" was his credo, and ultimately, it cost him his life. It wasn't until 1982 when he got into AA through the VA that the finally became the man he should've been for decades, but by that time, his marriage was over and his relationship to me and my brother was seriously damaged.
When I was younger, I saw people with addiction problems as weak or irresponsible. Now that I'm well into my 50s, I see them as people who need help. Chances are that unless they're a raging attention whore who likes getting fucked up because they want to be consequence-free "bad boys" they imagine rock stars, actors and athletes to be, then they're just people who are seriously hurt inside and need our understanding.
When I was younger, I saw people with addiction problems as weak or irresponsible. Now that I'm well into my 50s, I see them as people who need help. Chances are that unless they're a raging attention whore who likes getting fucked up because they want to be consequence-free "bad boys" they imagine rock stars, actors and athletes to be, then they're just people who are seriously hurt inside and need our understanding.
Regarding Harvey, to me he seemed like someone who got caught up in his celebrity and then started to dabble in the drugs, after he got hurt, turned to drugs to lessen the pain both physically and mentally. He used the pills as a crutch instead of hard work to get back on track and be the pitcher he was. Couple that with his awful attitude and swag that resulted in terrible results, he is an asshole in my opinion. If he gave that kid those pills, he is more of an asshole and an enabler.
I know ALL about addiction firsthand, the mental and physical abuse that it brings. No need for me to go into my sob story about it, but the emotional and mental walls it has caused me to build in my life has led me down some scary roads and places that I don't ever want to go again. It has taken me years to be able to address them, because as a man, we don't talk about these things. We keep it inside because if not your weak. Addiction is a terrible disease and the mental games it plays with you can be a real mind fuck. The negotiations inside your own head to justify that one last hit or sip are endless.
For me, the reason I lean a little harder on addicts is because it is a personal choice. There is PLENTY of available help out there these days to clean up. Even medications now to help the burden of addictions. But no addict will seek help until they are fully ready to embrace it. People talk about hitting rock bottom then seeking the help they need. Its not rock bottom, its finally realizing that you truly WANT to quit. That you're sick and tired of feeling sick and tired. Rock bottom is only a temporary reprise from addiction, its not the realization of finally being done with what cripples you.
I know ALL about addiction firsthand, the mental and physical abuse that it brings. No need for me to go into my sob story about it, but the emotional and mental walls it has caused me to build in my life has led me down some scary roads and places that I don't ever want to go again. It has taken me years to be able to address them, because as a man, we don't talk about these things. We keep it inside because if not your weak. Addiction is a terrible disease and the mental games it plays with you can be a real mind fuck. The negotiations inside your own head to justify that one last hit or sip are endless.
For me, the reason I lean a little harder on addicts is because it is a personal choice. There is PLENTY of available help out there these days to clean up. Even medications now to help the burden of addictions. But no addict will seek help until they are fully ready to embrace it. People talk about hitting rock bottom then seeking the help they need. Its not rock bottom, its finally realizing that you truly WANT to quit. That you're sick and tired of feeling sick and tired. Rock bottom is only a temporary reprise from addiction, its not the realization of finally being done with what cripples you.
I am repeating a post which was made in another thread on the topic of addiction
You are entitled to your opinion, as is everyone on this board. I am not offended, but saddened that you see addiction as a weakness, not a behavioral health problem and a disease that it really is.
TBH, I shared the same feelings you did prior to experiencing it firsthand. To watch a sibling go from a normal childhood,to addiction. The final result was unimaginable.
One does not choose to be an addict. Whatever the circumstances lead up to addiction, one must accept it as a disease and treat it accordingly. Is that person “weak” as you say.. ?? Maybe.. but not in the capacity I think you are referring too. Many addicts do not have the mental health capacity that the healthy person does. Perhaps a poor inference, but think about your best and worst subject in school. Maybe you excelled in science or history, but you couldn’t grasp math, no matter what.. The addict can be the nicest, smartest, strongest ( in certain capacities) , but when it comes to their vice, all bets are off..decision making and the ability to choose from right and wrong ( as the normal person sees it) is flawed.
I educated myself, researched and learned.. Addiction is a disease.. No one chooses to become an addict ( in whatever form)
Again, you are entitled to your opinion and that’s fine.. I am not suggesting otherwise but when you do cross paths with someone you determine “weak” treat them with kindness and respect.
It can go a long way
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You are entitled to your opinion, as is everyone on this board. I am not offended, but saddened that you see addiction as a weakness, not a behavioral health problem and a disease that it really is.
TBH, I shared the same feelings you did prior to experiencing it firsthand. To watch a sibling go from a normal childhood,to addiction. The final result was unimaginable.
One does not choose to be an addict. Whatever the circumstances lead up to addiction, one must accept it as a disease and treat it accordingly. Is that person “weak” as you say.. ?? Maybe.. but not in the capacity I think you are referring too. Many addicts do not have the mental health capacity that the healthy person does. Perhaps a poor inference, but think about your best and worst subject in school. Maybe you excelled in science or history, but you couldn’t grasp math, no matter what.. The addict can be the nicest, smartest, strongest ( in certain capacities) , but when it comes to their vice, all bets are off..decision making and the ability to choose from right and wrong ( as the normal person sees it) is flawed.
I educated myself, researched and learned.. Addiction is a disease.. No one chooses to become an addict ( in whatever form)
Again, you are entitled to your opinion and that’s fine.. I am not suggesting otherwise but when you do cross paths with someone you determine “weak” treat them with kindness and respect.
It can go a long way
Reply
Report
You are quoting my post but I think in the post you seemed to cut and paste you are answering someone else.
Your statement "saddened that you see addiction as a weakness, not a behavioral health problem and a disease that it really is"
Is not something that you and I would have gone back and forth with. So you can't be referring to something I previously said.
Your statement "saddened that you see addiction as a weakness, not a behavioral health problem and a disease that it really is"
Is not something that you and I would have gone back and forth with. So you can't be referring to something I previously said.
A little bit of both I would say.
As a non-addict, peeking in from the sidelines, you see the situation in a way that is baised to your own moral compass and life experiences.
As a an addict, going thru the motions and experiencing that world first hand, you either learn whats bad for you or you are unable to see the faults in your actions.
Judgement and sobrieity are personal choices so everyone will have a different persecption on these actions.
It is far easier to pass on judgement from position where you don't face consequences for what you say.
Its also far easier to get lost chasing the dragon when you can't see (or are unwilling to accept once you come to terms with it) why its bad for you.
I'd say that drugs are far easier to quit than this hobby of ours.
As a non-addict, peeking in from the sidelines, you see the situation in a way that is baised to your own moral compass and life experiences.
As a an addict, going thru the motions and experiencing that world first hand, you either learn whats bad for you or you are unable to see the faults in your actions.
Judgement and sobrieity are personal choices so everyone will have a different persecption on these actions.
It is far easier to pass on judgement from position where you don't face consequences for what you say.
Its also far easier to get lost chasing the dragon when you can't see (or are unwilling to accept once you come to terms with it) why its bad for you.
I'd say that drugs are far easier to quit than this hobby of ours.
There are many different classifications of drugs, some of which one can potentially walk away from, some cannot.
When one does have a substance use disorder, changes in the brains structure can and will cause personality changes, abnormal thinking, decision making skills and self control.
In many, if not most cases of SUD, the addict cannot just walk away.. It is a disease, which has no cure
When one does have a substance use disorder, changes in the brains structure can and will cause personality changes, abnormal thinking, decision making skills and self control.
In many, if not most cases of SUD, the addict cannot just walk away.. It is a disease, which has no cure
There is a cure. It’s hard but it is attainable.
When I was at the height of my addiction (Oxy and Fentanyl) about 20 years ago, I would prioritize drugs over anything.. including pussy!
I believe it is a mental illness / mental disease. I have a friend who was born with a serious disease that he’s miraculously able to still live with. He has an issue with addicts using the term disease. I get it. But nonetheless I am entitled to my beliefs.
When I was at the height of my addiction (Oxy and Fentanyl) about 20 years ago, I would prioritize drugs over anything.. including pussy!
I believe it is a mental illness / mental disease. I have a friend who was born with a serious disease that he’s miraculously able to still live with. He has an issue with addicts using the term disease. I get it. But nonetheless I am entitled to my beliefs.
For me personally, this is true. I was a pack a day smoker from 18 to 26, then one day I just stopped, no problem. I'm a pretty heavy drinker, but one time I decided to take a year off, no problem. I used to smoke a lot of pot, now I smoke on rare occasion, in fact it's been about 2 years since my last toke, no problem. But, my God, I can't shake this need for sex with different women. It's a huge financial burden, but I just can't stop. I'm able to hold it off for periods of time, but it's constantly on my mind, I'm constantly obesssing over it and barganing with myself about when I can do it again. It's absolutely the most addicting thing I've ever experienced.
Not to underplay it’s powerful force and intensity, but an addiction is nothing more than a habit, and a relationship with an entity, be it substance or circumstance, that offers us a false promise of happiness
Granted, it might seem to be be ridiculously, horrendously, seemingly insurmountably impossible to overcome and take a stand against.
But, at a certain moment when one is more sober and balanced, the day comes when you are able to face your addiction, see how it is destroying you, and you drop it and wonder why you ever held onto it for so long.
We build a structure around us to support our addiction. All the cohorts to our addiction stand by to perpetuate and remind us of our habit. When we see them, it makes it very difficult to leave.
When we reach the crossroad of addiction when it is so severe that it threatens to destroy our life on earth, we make a choice to either succumb and surrender to the addiction or drop the deadly alliance.
Granted, it might seem to be be ridiculously, horrendously, seemingly insurmountably impossible to overcome and take a stand against.
But, at a certain moment when one is more sober and balanced, the day comes when you are able to face your addiction, see how it is destroying you, and you drop it and wonder why you ever held onto it for so long.
We build a structure around us to support our addiction. All the cohorts to our addiction stand by to perpetuate and remind us of our habit. When we see them, it makes it very difficult to leave.
When we reach the crossroad of addiction when it is so severe that it threatens to destroy our life on earth, we make a choice to either succumb and surrender to the addiction or drop the deadly alliance.