Blush

[justlooking]

See, but I don't think it's a matter of "attraction."

As I keep saying, I definitely think, for the most part, that the guys these girls would date and the guys they'd "date" are two different sets.

 

[RuffToy]

I think there's a distinction between the clubs you frequent and the LI clubs that many here are discussing. Different level, different girls, different dynamics.

 

[justlooking]

I think so, too.

 

[justlooking]

Guys..guys...

What I'm trying to do is get you to give a specific example of how you 'know' a stripper will go P4P/NP4P. Lets forget about the OBVIOUS ones, as in the case of a stripstitute. The cases I'm interested in are the ones that seem to be just beyond your reach, one you want to make something happen with; one who, like JL says, can/will do it with you under the right circumstances but will not seem like that 'type'.

The clubs have lots of these kinds of strippers and many of them have been strippers a long time. That tells me they are open to P4P/NP4P if the stars are aligned right. It's getting the stars aligned that I want to hear more about. I've done it myself. One time all I had to do was flash a few hundred dollar bills and off we went! "I dont do that for money." My ass.

I wasnt making a personal comment about magical abilities, lightweight. I'm just trying to make what you all are saying a little less subjective.

A stripper you've never met sits down with you. You end up having a long conversation about, I dunno, some modern choreographer you both like. You buy a couple of dances so she doesn't feel like her time's been ripped off. But then she keeps talking to you. Later in the night, she comes back a few times, just to talk, as a break.

You keep doing this for several weeks or even months. Getting to know each other better and better over time. And meanwhile, the dances are getting closer, too. (We're assuming no in-club extras.)

Chances are, that girl will do OTC NP4P with you.

Again, what's hard about this?

 

[Retoxicate]

A stripper you've never met sits down with you. You end up having a long conversation about, I dunno, some modern choreographer you both like. You buy a couple of dances so she doesn't feel like her time's been ripped off. But then she keeps talking to you. Later in the night, she comes back a few times, just to talk, as a break.

You keep doing this for several weeks or even months. Getting to know each other better and better over time. And meanwhile, the dances are getting closer, too. (We're assuming no in-club extras.)

Chances are, that girl will do OTC NP4P with you.

Again, what's hard about this?

Just the person getting the dances.

 

[Axe]

Chances are, that girl will do OTC NP4P with you.

Again, what's hard about this?

Nothing (even if its P4P) apart from my own lack of patience to wait so long for something to happen while there are so many SA girls ready to go immediately.

I'm putiing common interests like choreography under the category of attraction. To be more specific, I'm talking about overcoming that resistance (in a low-mileage enviro) that the girls who 'dont do that' will give you. How do you convert that 'sense' you have that she will into action?

I want to stay away from the high-end/low-end aspect of this. I've targeted 'culture girls' of the type you've described in all kinds of clubs. They're everywhere, its just a matter of putting some time in.

 

[justlooking]

Also, I think the reason I find the question a little puzzling is, the way I approach it, you just ask the girl when you "know" her well enough that it seems to make sense to ask her. She could say yes, or she could say no. I guess she could say maybe.

I guess what I'm saying is, the way you know if she's the type who'll do OTC P4P on a limited basis is, if she says yes. (Or at least maybe.)

 

[justlooking]

I've targeted 'culture girls' of the type you've described in all kinds of clubs. They're everywhere, its just a matter of putting some time in.

Yeah, you're clearly right about that.

 

[justlooking]

How do you convert that 'sense' you have that she will into action?

I'm not sure that I do. As I said above, either she'll yes or she'll say no (or she'll say maybe). Sure, I'm willing to keep raising it. But in most cases I think it's more her mindset that controls than anything I do.

 

[justlooking]

Nothing (even if its P4P) apart from my own lack of patience to wait so long for something to happen while there are so many SA girls ready to go immediately.

IMO, having patience is the key to making this work.

The times when I lacked patience, and pulled the trigger too fast, have almost always had bad results.

BTW -- and I think this is even interesting -- when I say "bad results", I don't only mean cases where a promising girl said "no" because I asked her before I'd gotten her to reach the appropriate comfort level. I also mean cases where I ended up "dated" girls who, if I had taken the time to get to know them better, I'd have realized I didn't want to spend time with them. Sometimes that only means a moderately unpleasant night. But sometimes there can be uncomfortable consequences (that I'm not going to go into, beyond saying that you realize too late that the girl is a total nutcase).

 

[justlooking]

I'm not sure that I do. As I said above, either she'll yes or she'll say no (or she'll say maybe). Sure, I'm willing to keep raising it. But in most cases I think it's more her mindset that controls than anything I do.

I mean, if one particular girl won't do it, it's not the end of the world, you know?

Isn't that just a restatement of your and Retox's point that seeming like you care too much is fatal?

 

[Axe]

I guess what I'm saying is, the way you know if she's the type who'll do OTC P4P on a limited basis is, if she says yes. (Or at least maybe.)

Isnt this letting them choose you instead of the other way around? We're ignoring the original premise of my question (even though its heavily contrived): making something happen with a stripper YOU want. You choose, not them. IMHO, this is the most difficult thing to do...thats why I'd like to hear you and the others here say more about it.

 

[Axe]

For example, if there was a stripper who was particularly difficult to get OTC. She resisted and it took a looong time before anything happened...what happened to make her change her mind?

 

[justlooking]

Isnt this letting them choose you instead of the other way around? We're ignoring the original premise of my question (even though its heavily contrived): making something happen with a stripper YOU want. You choose, not them. IMHO, this is the most difficult thing to do...thats why I'd like to hear you and the others here say more about it.

I'd say it's more a case of we choose each other. I only persue this with woman I want. They only agree if they want.

 

[justlooking]

For example, if there was a stripper who was particularly difficult to get OTC. She resisted and it took a looong time before anything happened...what happened to make her change her mind?

Lots of things can happen. But since it's all in their head, who knows?

They can just finally begin to get comfortable with the idea. They can run into some immediate financial need. They can lose their boyfriend and thus one cause of possible misgivings.

In the case of a stripper who used to post right here on this board, what I think happened is that she moved to a club that was VHM, when she was still LM, and saw the VHM girls making all this money while she wasn't, and so finally decided that even though she couldn't do what they did on a large scale, she'd be willing to do something like that (but even moreso) on a very small (like individual) scale, thus both validating her sense of self-worth as a sexual being and giving her some of the extra money she wasn't making.

 

[justlooking]

They can really have wanted to all along, but feel like they have to play hard to get in order to keep up their delusion that they're not prostitutes.

 

[lightweight]

For example, if there was a stripper who was particularly difficult to get OTC. She resisted and it took a looong time before anything happened...what happened to make her change her mind?

The only think that can change her mind is Money or an attraction. I think that if there is a real attraction, it can be a np4p. But you are asking, what changed it from a no I do not do that to, an OK, I will see you outside the club, p4p. I think that most gie=rls that do not do otc p4p, will be hard to convert. If they do give in, it will be most likely, a money issue. But they have to trust you very very much.

 

[justlooking]

I also don't want to give a wrong impression. It isn't always the case that the girl says "no" and then sometime much later changes her mind. It's more often the case that she says "maybe" and then within a week or so calls you to say "yes". Or just says "yes" the first time you ask.

 

[justlooking]

The only think that can change her mind is Money or an attraction. I think that if there is a real attraction, it can be a np4p. But you are asking, what changed it from a no I do not do that to, an OK, I will see you outside the club, p4p. I think that most gie=rls that do not do otc p4p, will be hard to convert. If they do give in, it will be most likely, a money issue. But they have to trust you very very much.

I don't think it can only be money. But it may be that I define "attraction" more narrowly than you and Axe do.

The way I see it is, you can get a stripper who doesn't usually do OTC NP4P to do it with you if she thinks hanging out with you would be enjoyable enough to overcome any misgivings she might have about doing what is actually prostitution. In other words, she has to see your company as part of the compensation she's getting, as opposed to something she has to be compensated for enduring.

She does not have to be sexually attracted to you and, indeed, if she was, it would probably be NP4P.

 

[Axe]

The only think that can change her mind is Money or an attraction.

I think that's right. After its established that they like you and trust you, I have a hard time seeing how anything else can do it. Again, no distinction between P4P AND NP4P.